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[Anarya]

Druss99 wrote...

Mistress9Nine wrote...

Druss99 wrote...
You hate large breasted women?

You can't logically draw that conclusion from her statement. The only thing we can assume is that she likes small breasted women.

The use of the term "boob mountains" sounded derogatory towards large breasted women to me. But I will go with your assumption on it until it gets cleared up.

1. Delerious_Jedi started the "boob mountains" thing
2. Like 75% of my posts on this board, that post was not entirely serious (it refers to my pretty widely known stance on the scale of breasts in DA2 in a tongue-in-cheek manner)
3. I *am* a small breasted woman *fistbumps Cassandra*
4. I never thought I'd have to explain a throwaway post in this much detail..

And finally, why would you even assume hate out of that post? If I said "She's got white hair? I knew there was a reason I liked her!" would you have assumed I HATE women with all other hair colors? Because that's just silly.

Modifié par Anarya, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:04 .

[Helena Tylena]

Anarya wrote...

Druss99 wrote...

Mistress9Nine wrote...

Druss99 wrote...
You hate large breasted women?

You can't logically draw that conclusion from her statement. The only thing we can assume is that she likes small breasted women.

The use of the term "boob mountains" sounded derogatory towards large breasted women to me. But I will go with your assumption on it until it gets cleared up.

4. I never thought I'd have to explain a throwaway post in this much detail..

Welcome to the internet.

[Maria Caliban]

Russalka wrote...

I did not have the kind of experience you mention, knowing Loghain's antagonism from his looks or voice, not directly at least. Did he seemed to be in opposition? Yes. Did he seem evil? No.

It's fine that you're oblivious to these things, not everyone notices the same thing. I played the game for 80 hours before someone mentioned that the NPCs have no tongues and I noticed it for the first time.

At the E3 when BioWare first showed Loghian, people hissed and a few said, 'traitor!' at the screen. There were long threads on the board as well about how he sounded damn evil.

The Dragon Age setting has been described to blur the line between good and evil, so having blatantly and obviously evil characters seems illogical to me. There have been good examples here how someone who looks sinister need not be a big bad boss of the storyline.

I see. The archdemon didn't look like a giant, rotting dragon? And the mindless hordes that rampaged across Ferelden didn't look ugly and evil? These characters don't look evil, they look eeeeeeeeeeevil. Just like something you'd find in a Disney cartoon.

Can you think of an evil looking person or creature in Dragon Age: Origins that was really good?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:11 .

[Anarya]

I don't like it here, I wanna go home ;_;

[SDNcN]

Russalka wrote...

I did not have the kind of experience you mention, knowing Loghain's antagonism from his looks or voice, not directly at least. Did he seemed to be in opposition? Yes. Did he seem evil? No.

The Dragon Age setting has been described to blur the line between good and evil, so having blatantly and obviously evil characters seems illogical to me. There have been good examples here how someone who looks sinister need not be a big bad boss of the storyline.

I Agree with this completely.

If Bioware is going to use Disney's character designs, they should use this guy.



He doesn't look evil and at first actually seems pleasant, but his actions gradually reveal that he is the main antagonist.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Can you think of an evil looking person or creature in Dragon Age: Origins that was really good?

He is not in Origins but according to the epilogue, the Darkspawn Messenger seems like a pretty decent being if you choose spare his life.

Modifié par SDNcN, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:14 .

[Russalka]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I see. The archdemon didn't look like a giant, rotting dragon? And the mindless hordes that rampaged across Ferelden didn't look ugly and evil? These characters don't look evil, they look eeeeeeeeeeevil. Just like something you'd find in a Disney cartoon.

Can you think of an evil looking person or creature in Dragon Age: Origins that was really good?

Can you think of a "good looking" person or creature in Dragon Age that was really evil? Arlessa Isolde seemed like a scheming temptress to me at first, when I saw her from a very narrow viewpoint. She turned out to be a desperate, but good-natured mother. Howe looked pretty ordinary to me. A person's appearance does not mean anything, because opinions over looks are relative.
Creatures had an explanation to their "evil" looks. People rarely do.

I know the designers will use appearance to accentuate alignment, but I do not think it is a constant or something that is always true.

Modifié par Russalka, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:22 .

[Fortlowe]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Cassandra fan art!

Varric: Well...?
Hawke: Well what, Dwarf?
Varric: C'mon Hawke! Look at her! I know  you're thinking it!
Hawke: I have no idea what you're talking about, nor would I even entertain the notion!
Varric: I'm a Dwarf. We don't even have the Chantry. But maybe if you put in a good word....?
Hawke: No. No! NO!  I am absolutely not helping you with that!
Varric: C'mon, Hawke! Please?!
Hawke: That isn''t even what lay brother means anyway!
Varric: Just get me in a room with her long enough. We'll see about that!

Modifié par Fortlowe, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:25 .

[Maria Caliban]

I'll take that as I, "No, I can't think of anyone who looked evil but wasn't."

It's almost as though looking and sounding evil was reserved for people and creatures who were bad. The best I can do are creatures who are deformed by magical illness and so are rendered mad.

It's almost like a Disney movie.

[Dave of Canada]

I still don't see the evil part of Cassandra, though maybe that's just because I don't view Loghain or The Illusive Man as evil either.

[Maria Caliban]

I mean, the closest I can think of is Ruck, who doesn't look so much evil as horribly malformed and pathetic. The werewolves struggled to be good, but that didn't keep them from murdering people in a mad rage.

Dave of Canada wrote...

I still don't see the evil part of Cassandra, though maybe that's just because I don't view Loghain or The Illusive Man as evil either.

You mean they don't look/sound evil or you don't agree that they're actually evil?

I asked earlier if people would rather I use the term 'morally dubious,' as I know some people don't like to see the word evil applied to a character unless they're totally without merit or goodness.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:30 .

[Dave of Canada]

Maria Caliban wrote...

You mean they don't look/sound evil or you don't agree that they're actually evil?

For Loghain and TIM, I'd say the second one.
For Cassandra, I can't really say the second one as I have not met the character herself but I don't really see her appearance as evil either. What I do see is a woman that's trying to be intimidating, considering it's part of her job description. That doesn't strike me as evil, however.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:33 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Anarya wrote...

I don't like it here, I wanna go home ;_;

There there, can you point to where the forum touched you?

On topic: She looks a lot less 'evil' in her new silver haired incarnation if you ask me, I'm definitely getting a vibe from her that she will be an antagonist to some degree but not the main one. I wouldn't be surprised if Hawke's eventual interaction with her varies depending on how you deal with the mage/Chantry divide. Depending on where the game catches up to the interrogation I can see her being an optional recruitment should you side with the Chantry.

[upsettingshorts]

Best I can think of - and boy is it really minor and they don't strike me as evil so much as amoral - but the bandits on the road outside Lothering. They could very well have been a Rag Tag Band of Misfits, looks wise.

[Helena Tylena]

All depends on how you define 'evil' really. My personal philosophy is that what you do is at least as important as why you do it. Most 'evil' people do evil things for reasons that can be defined as good. Loghain did what he did because he believed it would save his country. Bhelen is a tyrant, but he is also progressive, bringing much needed changes to his people. The refugees attacking you in Lothering do so because they're desperate. Are they evil?

Darkspawn do what their instincts tell them to do. They are basically beasts. Smart enough to use weapons and crude tactics, but still beasts. To slaughter is in their nature. Is that evil? Perhaps.
I think the only evil that has no redeemable bits I can think of are the Old Gods.
And Howe. That little snot is rotten to the core.

EDIT: And demons.

Modifié par Helena Tylena, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:36 .

[upsettingshorts]

The Blood Mage who begs you to let her go in the Tower was kinda cute, if I remember right. She'd count if Blood Magic itself counts.

But these are incredibly minor characters I'm coming up with so they don't really disprove any "evil characters look evil"  theory.

People will cite Anora, potentially, but I will vigorously object to anyone citing her motives as anything but perfectly reasonable given the circumstances. Or I won't, but assume I would.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:37 .

[Fortlowe]

Logain is ruthless. Being ruthless means not judging the world in a good and bad standard but in a strong weak standard. This is an outlook that many 'evil' characters have, but really it's the only practical perspective one with real power can afford.

[Russalka]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'll take that as I, "No, I can't think of anyone who looked evil but wasn't."

Because I do not see any people in Dragon Age that LOOK "good" or "evil".
There are hints here and there, which is normal, since this is still a limited medium, compared to what we see in real life.
But never anything that screams the alignment of a person.

It is all in the eye of the beholder.

Modifié par Russalka, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:42 .

[SirOccam]

As much as anyone can "look evil," I'd say Nathaniel fits that description, in that he could easily have played a villain. He looks the part, anyway.

[Helena Tylena]

Sten looked pretty evil. Dark, huge, murdered a bunch of innocents. Turned out to be a decent bloke.



Justice also *looks* the part. Post corpse-possession, that is.

[Anarya]

Well, if Cassandra's goal is to "put the world back together" I don't think you can really consider her "evil". She may possibly be misguided in her motives like Loghain was, but that sounds like a noble goal to me.

[Maria Caliban]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

You mean they don't look/sound evil or you don't agree that they're actually evil?

For Loghain and TIM, I'd say the second one.
For Cassandra, I can't really say the second one as I have not met the character herself but I don't really see her appearance as evil either. What I do see is a woman that's trying to be intimidating, considering it's part of her job description. That doesn't strike me as evil, however.

I have no idea if trying to be intimidating is part of her job description. I'm not sure what a Chantry Seeker does, actually.

It would be great if she were the main villain but attractive females usually aren't unless they fall into the 'seductress' camp.

Anarya wrote...

Well, if Cassandra's goal is to "put the world back together" I don't think you can really consider her "evil". She may possibly be misguided in her motives like Loghain was, but that sounds like a noble goal to me.

What does putting the world back together mean?

According to the Chantry, the world is 'broken' because humanity turned away from the Maker. He'll only return when everyone in Thedas worship him. Her solution to the problem of a broken world might just be to conquer and convert everyone.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:52 .

[Dave of Canada]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I have no idea if trying to be intimidating is part of her job description. I'm not sure what a Chantry Seeker does, actually.

Essentially, from what I've gathered, an Inquisitor that is above the Templars in terms of power.

[upsettingshorts]

I don't know if intimidation is part of her job per se, but getting Varric to quit screwing around is probably her immediate goal and intimidating him would serve her purpose.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 novembre 2010 - 12:52 .

[Helena Tylena]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

You mean they don't look/sound evil or you don't agree that they're actually evil?

For Loghain and TIM, I'd say the second one.
For Cassandra, I can't really say the second one as I have not met the character herself but I don't really see her appearance as evil either. What I do see is a woman that's trying to be intimidating, considering it's part of her job description. That doesn't strike me as evil, however.

I have no idea if trying to be intimidating is part of her job description. I'm not sure what a Chantry Seeker does, actually.

It would be great if she were the main villain but attractive females usually aren't unless they fall into the 'seductress' camp.

I think you might be able to compare the seeker role to an interrogator-MI6 agent kind of thing...
By the way, what if she's simply a goth?

[Anarya]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Well, if Cassandra's goal is to "put the world back together" I don't think you can really consider her "evil". She may possibly be misguided in her motives like Loghain was, but that sounds like a noble goal to me.

What does putting the world back together mean?

According to the Chantry, the world is 'broken' because humanity turned away from the Maker. He'll only return when everyone in Thedas worship him. Her solution to the problem of a broken world might just be to conquer and convert everyone.

Well that's just it, we don't know what it means yet. But even if that was her solution, she would believe she's doing the right thing. Which makes her not evil in my view, even if I wouldn't agree with her actions.