1770 réponses à ce sujet

[durasteel]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

In principle? Sure. In this case? Non-issue. PS3 owners will also never have access to the original Mass Effect, but oddly enough, I don't see you crying about that.

First off, I do think that ME1 should have been released across all viable platforms.  Why?  Because platform exclusives suck.  I don't mention it because, frankly, it doesn't effect me.  Let the PS players argue that point.

Secondly, if all you've got left is to call my objections "crying," then you've got nothing but a fat bag of troll.  Don't think no one noticed.

[comicfan22]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

durasteel wrote...
Platform Exclusives Suck.

In principle? Sure. In this case? Non-issue. PS3 owners will also never have access to the original Mass Effect, but oddly enough, I don't see you crying about that.

QFT

Some people around here. UGHHH!

[SSV Enterprise]

durasteel, you get to play through all of ME1. PS3 users don't. Stop whining.

Modifié par SSV Enterprise, 07 novembre 2010 - 11:01 .

[spacehamsterZH]

SSV Enterprise wrote...

durasteel, you get to play through all of ME1. PS3 users don't. Stop whining.

"whining" is probably a forbidden word too. Now he's going to call you a troll, just watch.

You know what really sucks? Accusing other posters of "trolling" when you've run out of intelligent points to make. I clearly said that yes, in principle, making things platform exclusive kinda sucks (although as a PS3 owner, I can safely say that the games that are exclusive to that platform typically have better visuals and run more stably than the cross-platform games, so there's that), but in this case, especially given that editing saves is no problem on PC or 360, all you're missing out on is basically a few pictures, so it's a non-issue to me.

But yeah, that's just trolling, it's not like I'm trying to reason through this thing or anything.

[durasteel]

SSV Enterprise wrote...

durasteel, you get to play through all of ME1. PS3 users don't. Stop whining.

Up yours.

PS3 users might have gotten left out in the past - all that does is prove the point that platform exclusives suck.  Also, chacterising any opinion that differs from your own as "whining" makes you a jackass.

[durasteel]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

But yeah, that's just trolling, it's not like I'm trying to reason through this thing or anything.

Reason through what?  You're (apparently) saying that this platform exclusive thing doesn't suck for other platforms, because that same platform was previously excluded... which sucked for that platform.

The bottom line here is that platform exclusives suck, which you seem to agree with as a general pronciple.  From there, having little of substance upon which to disagree, we move on to characterising my objections as crying, whining, beating a dead horse, etc. (not all you personally, obviously.)  That's not disagreement, that's just being disagreeable.  I can do that too.

Modifié par durasteel, 07 novembre 2010 - 11:20 .

[SSV Enterprise]

Also, what durasteel claims is "unfair" isn't even part of the intention of the comic.

durasteel wrote...

Actually, it does.  This interactive comic seems to offer the possibility to generate a basic ME1 save in a few minutes, which could quite dramatically change your experience of the game.  If you have a hard drive crash, or lose your saved games for any reason, this could make the difference between playing ME2 again or not.  The ability to quickly create a ME1 save with different choices will almost certainly inspire many people to re-play the game, and to buy any new DLC to enjoy while doing so.

BioWare is not making this comic because it is a more convenient way to make a ME1 save to transfer over to ME2.  They are making it because it is the only way to make a ME1 save to transfer to ME2 on the PS3.

The necessity of playing through ME1 before you can change the starting conditions of ME2 is likely a design choice of BioWare's.  They want you to play through the first game, both to experience it and so that they get some more sales.  A simple comic that allows you to pick at the beginning of ME2 would cheapen the experience of ME1 and lessen the incentive to buy ME1.  You can b!tch about that all you want, but understand that it has nothing to do with exclusivity.  Without the PS3 version it would be the same, and if ME1 was on the PS3 it would be the same there too.  Would you complain then?

Let me put it this way:  Say you want to play the later half of Knights of the Old Republic again.  However, you don't have any saves in that part of the game.  Should BioWare provide an "interactive comic" that allows you to make decisions up to that point?  No, of course not, because playing through that is part of the experience that should not be separated from the latter.  Same idea for importing ME1 over to ME2.

Modifié par SSV Enterprise, 07 novembre 2010 - 11:20 .

[rogershoe]

SSV Enterprise wrote...

Also, what durasteel claims is "unfair" isn't even part of the intention of the comic.

durasteel wrote...

Actually, it does.  This interactive comic seems to offer the possibility to generate a basic ME1 save in a few minutes, which could quite dramatically change your experience of the game.  If you have a hard drive crash, or lose your saved games for any reason, this could make the difference between playing ME2 again or not.  The ability to quickly create a ME1 save with different choices will almost certainly inspire many people to re-play the game, and to buy any new DLC to enjoy while doing so.

BioWare is not making this comic because it is a more convenient way to make a ME1 save to transfer over to ME2.  They are making it because it is the only way to make a ME1 save to transfer to ME2 on the PS3.

It's not quite the only option. If Bioware were more creative, they could have redone ME2's story so that Shepard has amnesia and you slowly get back pieces of your memory during the game that fills in the backstory of ME1. These memories would be remade sections of Mass Effect 1 with Mass Effect 2 gameplay. Anyways, by the end of the game, PS3 players should have all the knowledge they need and everyone will be on the same playing field in terms of storyline.

However, Bioware decided to take the easier route and make an interactive comic that requires that you buy the game new. Which is infinitely more boring than a revamped Mass Effect 2 story line. Also, such a change would have convinced me to buy Mass Effect 2 again for the PS3 because such a tweaked storyline would be awesome.

Modifié par rogershoe, 07 novembre 2010 - 11:27 .

[SSV Enterprise]

That would be altering the experience of ME2, and making a tangible difference between the platforms. It would alter the very plot itself. My attitude towards that approach is a resounding no.

[rogershoe]

SSV Enterprise wrote...

That would be altering the experience of ME2, and making a tangible difference between the platforms. It would alter the very plot itself. My attitude towards that approach is a resounding no.

So what? Altering the experience on the PS3 BUT ending at the same point in terms of character development and player knowledge. Thus, all versions will begin at the same point. In other words, different journey, same destination. It's already a different journey without Mass Effect 1. Might as well make it a better different journey.

Bennyjammin79 wrote...
So Bioware is supposed remake ME2, make
ME3 according to the 360 and PS3 versions and continue to make DLC?
Your option is not a good one.

It may have taken more resources, but it would have been infinitely more enjoyable for the PS3 crowd.

Modifié par rogershoe, 07 novembre 2010 - 11:35 .

[SSV Enterprise]

Bennyjammin79 wrote...

Well Enterprise, you digusting forum troll you, I've had enough thread fail for one day. Enjoy the rest of the evening.

Cheers.

Have a good evening.  I'll hold the line a little more.  Y'know, to make Captain Kirrahe proud.

rogershoe wrote...

So
what? Altering the experience on the PS3 BUT ending at the same point
in terms of character development and player knowledge. Thus, all
versions will begin at the same point. In other words, different
journey, same destination. It's already a different journey without Mass
Effect 1. Might as well make it a better different journey.

Introducing amnesia would be a major plot change.  It really changes how his interactions would happen- especially with his squad members from the first game.  It would not end at the same point in character development at all.

Edit: And why make it "better"?  Do you think the original was bad?  Why should the PS3 players get a fundamentally different game?

Modifié par SSV Enterprise, 07 novembre 2010 - 11:45 .

[axl99]

Hang on a second, when Jesse mentioned "Interactive Comic back story", did he mean that the guys who worked on the ME comic are gonna work on that too?

[StowyMcStowstow]

Seriously? Adding in items we 360 owners don't have? Wow...

So they basically get all the DLC that I paid for with my hard-earned money for the regular $60? The DLC that together costs, what, another $15? 

Look, I understand about making up for lost time and whatnot, but giving away DLC that 360 owners still have to pay for is just ridiculous. Unless the price of the  paid DLC went down to $0, in which case I'm going to go punch someone.

Modifié par StowyMcStowstow, 07 novembre 2010 - 11:56 .

[Jesse Houston]

axl99 wrote...

Hang on a second, when Jesse mentioned "Interactive Comic back story", did he mean that the guys who worked on the ME comic are gonna work on that too?

Yes, Dark Horse is working with us to make the Interactive Comic Mac also wrote the comic (he wrote the other ones as well).

[rogershoe]

SSV Enterprise wrote...

rogershoe wrote...

So
what? Altering the experience on the PS3 BUT ending at the same point
in terms of character development and player knowledge. Thus, all
versions will begin at the same point. In other words, different
journey, same destination. It's already a different journey without Mass
Effect 1. Might as well make it a better different journey.

Introducing amnesia would be a major plot change.  It really changes how his interactions would happen- especially with his squad members from the first game.  It would not end at the same point in character development at all.

Edit: And why make it "better"?  Do you think the original was bad?  Why should the PS3 players get a fundamentally different game?

It would be a better experience than having to learn the backstory from a comic book. It won't take them out of the game and it would feel much more streamlined. As I said, PS3 owners have no choice in the matter. Might as well make their lack of choice a better experience. That's what I meant. I don't think the original was "bad" but when you can't play the original, what else can you do?

Jesse Houston wrote...

axl99 wrote...

Hang
on a second, when Jesse mentioned "Interactive Comic back story", did he
mean that the guys who worked on the ME comic are gonna work on that
too?

Yes, Dark Horse is working with us to make the Interactive Comic Mac also wrote the comic (he wrote the other ones as well).

Also, I wanted to ask, is the comic the "introductory module" that was mentioned at the time of ME2 PS3 announcement? If it is, I have to say, why make PS3 owners go out of their way to go onto the Cerberus Network and download it? Why not just integrate it so that it is already in the game and that PS3 owners would have to first play through it?

Modifié par rogershoe, 08 novembre 2010 - 12:15 .

[charmingcharlie]

rogershoe wrote...

I have to say, why make PS3 owners go out of their way to go onto the Cerberus Network and download it? Why not just integrate it so that it is already in the game and that PS3 owners would have to first play through it?

I would have thought the reasoning is obvious ?  The comic book and some of the DLC is not included on disc to help combat against second hand sales.  When you buy Mass Effect 2 you get a cerberus code that can only be used once and allows you to download the content for free.  If you then sell your copy of Mass Effect 2 then the person that buys your copy cannot access the Cerberus network and has to pay a futher $15 to get a new code.  So that is why some of the content and the comic is "download only".

[Kalamoj]

I'm pretty disappointed with the PS3 ME2. Paying full price for a 'halfGOTY' is ridiculous, and the comic-style ME1 is looks like a cheap trick (for now). If the final game will be what Jesse told, I'll probably wait a couple of months to buy it cheaper, or I'll wait the 'real' GOTY with the DLCs released after ME2PS3

[Dalrint]

The thing that bothers me, I guess, is that I just added it up, and the DLC on Live would cost me 24 dollars if I bought it right now. I bought ME2 when it came out on 360, the CE version. So, that was...seventy dollars? I generally wait until all the DLC for a game is out, and then play through the entire thing again. That was my plan. If you add the 24 dollars to it, I'll have paid 94 dollars for the game.



That same experience, the PS3 is getting for 60, plus the comic book thing that is actually a non-issue. That's not...loyalty to your customers. That's saying 'You have to pay for this, I'm giving it to the this other guy for free.'



That bothers me. That really bothers me. And the argument that they didn't get to play ME1, and that somehow makes getting the DLC for free 'even' is nonsensical. It isn't MY fault that they didn't get to play ME1, it will never be my fault, or any other 360 fans fault. And yet we're, essentially, being punished for it.



When you tell one person "Here, pay me ten dollars and I'll give you this thing." and then you turn to the next guy and say "Here, have this thing for free." The first person naturally feels jilted by it. Regardless of your reasons, your fans are going to be upset by this.



I just had to get that off my chest. I feel a little better. Still not buying the DLC though. Alas.

[SSV Enterprise]

Dalrint wrote...

The thing that bothers me, I guess, is that I just added it up, and the DLC on Live would cost me 24 dollars if I bought it right now. I bought ME2 when it came out on 360, the CE version. So, that was...seventy dollars? I generally wait until all the DLC for a game is out, and then play through the entire thing again. That was my plan. If you add the 24 dollars to it, I'll have paid 94 dollars for the game.

That same experience, the PS3 is getting for 60, plus the comic book thing that is actually a non-issue. That's not...loyalty to your customers. That's saying 'You have to pay for this, I'm giving it to the this other guy for free.'

That bothers me. That really bothers me. And the argument that they didn't get to play ME1, and that somehow makes getting the DLC for free 'even' is nonsensical. It isn't MY fault that they didn't get to play ME1, it will never be my fault, or any other 360 fans fault. And yet we're, essentially, being punished for it.

When you tell one person "Here, pay me ten dollars and I'll give you this thing." and then you turn to the next guy and say "Here, have this thing for free." The first person naturally feels jilted by it. Regardless of your reasons, your fans are going to be upset by this.

I just had to get that off my chest. I feel a little better. Still not buying the DLC though. Alas.

Oddly, your problem reminds me of a parable Jesus told.  Allow me to paraphrase.

There was a wealthy landowner who needed to hire men one day to do some work in his field.  He went out in the morning to the marketplace, found some men willing to work, and offered them some money to work all day in the field.  The men found it reasonable, so they went to work.

Around the middle of the day, the landowner saw the need for more men, and went and hired some more.  He offered the same amount to them.  In the middle of the afternoon, he did the same, hiring a few more men for the same amount.  Even towards the beginning of the evening, he went out and hired some men, for the same amount.

At nightfall, the men who were hired first saw that the others were being paid the same, even though they had not worked as long.  They found this unfair, so they went to the landowner and complained that they had not been paid fairly.  The landowner replied to them, "Didn't you find this amount reasonable when I first hired you?  Why, then, do you find it unreasonable now?  What I pay others is my business with them and not you, as long as I honor my agreement with you."

Same kind of logic applies here.  You found the price for ME2 reasonable when you first bought it.  Why does it matter to you what price BioWare puts on it at a later date, to others?  Do you wish the PS3 players to pay more?  It's not like that money is going into your pocket.

Modifié par SSV Enterprise, 08 novembre 2010 - 12:57 .

[comicfan22]

SSV Enterprise wrote...

Oddly, your problem reminds me of a parable Jesus told.  Allow me to paraphrase.

There was a wealthy landowner who needed to hire men one day to do some work in his field.  He went out in the morning to the marketplace, found some men willing to work, and offered them some money to work all day in the field.  The men found it reasonable, so they went to work.

Around the middle of the day, the landowner saw the need for more men, and went and hired some more.  He offered the same amount to them.  In the middle of the afternoon, he did the same, hiring a few more men for the same amount.  Even towards the beginning of the evening, he went out and hired some men, for the same amount.

At nightfall, the men who were hired first saw that the others were being paid the same, even though they had not worked as long.  They found this unfair, so they went to the landowner and complained that they had not been paid fairly.  The landowner replied to them, "Didn't you find this amount reasonable when I first hired you?  Why, then, do you find it unreasonable now?  What I pay others is my business with them and not you, as long as I honor my agreement with you."

Same kind of logic applies here.  You found the price for ME2 reasonable when you first bought it.  Why does it matter to you what price BioWare puts on it at a later date, to others?  Do you wish the PS3 players to pay more?  It's not like that money is going into your pocket.

You sir, win one internets:wizard:

[Skirlasvoud]

SSV Enterprise wrote...

Dalrint wrote...

The thing that bothers me, I guess, is that I just added it up, and the DLC on Live would cost me 24 dollars if I bought it right now. I bought ME2 when it came out on 360, the CE version. So, that was...seventy dollars? I generally wait until all the DLC for a game is out, and then play through the entire thing again. That was my plan. If you add the 24 dollars to it, I'll have paid 94 dollars for the game.

That same experience, the PS3 is getting for 60, plus the comic book thing that is actually a non-issue. That's not...loyalty to your customers. That's saying 'You have to pay for this, I'm giving it to the this other guy for free.'

That bothers me. That really bothers me. And the argument that they didn't get to play ME1, and that somehow makes getting the DLC for free 'even' is nonsensical. It isn't MY fault that they didn't get to play ME1, it will never be my fault, or any other 360 fans fault. And yet we're, essentially, being punished for it.

When you tell one person "Here, pay me ten dollars and I'll give you this thing." and then you turn to the next guy and say "Here, have this thing for free." The first person naturally feels jilted by it. Regardless of your reasons, your fans are going to be upset by this.

I just had to get that off my chest. I feel a little better. Still not buying the DLC though. Alas.

Oddly, your problem reminds me of a parable Jesus told.  Allow me to paraphrase.

There was a wealthy landowner who needed to hire men one day to do some work in his field.  He went out in the morning to the marketplace, found some men willing to work, and offered them some money to work all day in the field.  The men found it reasonable, so they went to work.

Around the middle of the day, the landowner saw the need for more men, and went and hired some more.  He offered the same amount to them.  In the middle of the afternoon, he did the same, hiring a few more men for the same amount.  Even towards the beginning of the evening, he went out and hired some men, for the same amount.

At nightfall, the men who were hired first saw that the others were being paid the same, even though they had not worked as long.  They found this unfair, so they went to the landowner and complained that they had not been paid fairly.  The landowner replied to them, "Didn't you find this amount reasonable when I first hired you?  Why, then, do you find it unreasonable now?  What I pay others is my business with them and not you, as long as I honor my agreement with you."

Same kind of logic applies here.  You found the price for ME2 reasonable when you first bought it.  Why does it matter to you what price BioWare puts on it at a later date, to others?  Do you wish the PS3 players to pay more?  It's not like that money is going into your pocket.

Agreed. Stuff like this makes me appreciate that the bible was written.