1770 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

durasteel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Timed exclusivity.

ME1 wasn't a timed exclusive.

Assumptions...
Edit: Forget it I'm not even going to start.

Really?  Because the way I remember it, BioWare told PC gamers to go screw themselves for at least 6 months after the platform exclusive X Box release of Mass Effect.  They even lied, blatantly, insisting that the PC version was not in development and that the game was intended to be an X Box exclusive for ever.  Who knows - maybe if EA hadn't bought the company, the game would be an X Box exclusive to this very day.

Crap with an expiration date doesn't magically become rose petals.  Platform exclusives suck.  Timed exclusives might stop sucking at some point, but they will always have sucked, until someone invents a time machine.

Oh so the PC version didn't get bonus DLC for free then? 

And yes it was a timed exclusive just like ME2 is. They were just covering their asses.

I never said TE didn't suck. They do. (Hell I had to wait to get my SO4) but sadly at this point there a necessary evil to keep the giants in competition. Otherwise we get permanent exclusives which suck even more. (Not to mention small studios aren't exactly innocent either. They accept the money.)

I'm not even getting into the whole MS and EA think. Suffice to say I don't like either one of them overly much. Nor Sony either for that matter. And...I haven't played a Nintendo game in ages.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 novembre 2010 - 02:25 .

[Elite Midget]

They said the same thing when ME2 started getting rumours that it was coming to the PS3. It was their PR department saving face because they couldn't openly confirm it yet.

[durasteel]

Elite Midget wrote...

You do know I'm a ME2 Owner and a 360 Gamer right? I mean, it's right under the Avatar. Just throwing that out there since you think I want the PS3 to have the Comic as exclusive because I own a PS3, which I don't. I already explained it but it seems I will have to do it again.

I think we're all pretty clear - it isn't an issue of the game or the comic with you.  For you, it is a persecution fantasy.  Oh, the poor, downtrodden Play Stationers.  Outcast and bereft of Mass Effect, let them at least have an interactive comic all to themselves, to serve as a balm to their grievous (emotional) wounds.

That's bollocks.  Platform exclusives suck.

[charmingcharlie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Maybe you won't. /shrugs but if you're not going to buy it over a comic then that's rather silly.

It wouldn't be just the comic, I have been very unhappy with a lot of things with regard to Bioware and Mass Effect 2.  I naturally won't go into them here because this isn't the place.   Basically put, with holding the comic from PC/360 gamers is the "straw that would break the camels back".

I have no problem with them selling me the comic and as long as the quality is good and the price fair I would be more than happy to pay for it but completely excluding a vast majority of your customers is a massive no no to me.

Aside from that I am actually surprised there isn't more discussion about how they are actually going to pull this off.  An interactive comic sounds like a brave idea and I haven't seen anything like this before unless you count Max Payne or MDK 2 (even then these were not interactive).

If you actually think about all the decisions they are going to have to cover in the comic it is actually mind boggling.  Will they for example allow you to choose your gender ? what about choosing your background history or even better the class you want to play as ?  Then will it cover all the main missions of ME 1 ? if you think about how much they have to cover with the comic it is staggering.  If that wasn't enough they have to do it in a concise manner so people aren't spending 10 hours reading a comic before playing ME 2.

If they do this right it could be a fantastic experience and another great way to enjoy the Mass Effect universe.  If they do it wrong then ........ well god help them

[Elite Midget]

It isn't a fantasy. If anything you're living the Fantasy of "Gimmie Gimmie!". The whole reason they made the Comic was to COMPENSATE for not being able to port ME1.



This is about fairness. We have ME1 already so why would we need a Comic, that grants an inferior presentation, outside of just being lazy?



Let me play it out in a comical manner so you'll understand how much of a low blow your way would be.



PS3 Owner: I waited a year for this! Sure we don't get ME1 too but we have this Comic that'll introduce us to the Universe!

PC/360 Owner: Haha! I got the Comic AND ME1!

PS3: Bu-but... The Comic was supposed to compensate for the fact that we can't play ME1! Why would you want that?

PC/360 Owner: Why? Well, I'm lazy and I wanna make my 50th Shepard. Not to mention that you have something I wanted so I whined untill Bioware gave it to me! Having more choices than you guys is AWESOME!

PS3: But the Comic was our thing...

PC/360: Not anymore! Enjoy your Inferior ME experience while I enjoy having more CHOICES than you!

[Ryzaki]

charmingcharlie wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Maybe you won't. /shrugs but if you're not going to buy it over a comic then that's rather silly.

It wouldn't be just the comic, I have been very unhappy with a lot of things with regard to Bioware and Mass Effect 2.  I naturally won't go into them here because this isn't the place.   Basically put, with holding the comic from PC/360 gamers is the "straw that would break the camels back".

I have no problem with them selling me the comic and as long as the quality is good and the price fair I would be more than happy to pay for it but completely excluding a vast majority of your customers is a massive no no to me.

Aside from that I am actually surprised there isn't more discussion about how they are actually going to pull this off.  An interactive comic sounds like a brave idea and I haven't seen anything like this before unless you count Max Payne or MDK 2 (even then these were not interactive).

If you actually think about all the decisions they are going to have to cover in the comic it is actually mind boggling.  Will they for example allow you to choose your gender ? what about choosing your background history or even better the class you want to play as ?  Then will it cover all the main missions of ME 1 ? if you think about how much they have to cover with the comic it is staggering.  If that wasn't enough they have to do it in a concise manner so people aren't spending 10 hours reading a comic before playing ME 2.

If they do this right it could be a fantastic experience and another great way to enjoy the Mass Effect universe.  If they do it wrong then ........ well god help them

Yeah I personally think if there's no S/S romance in ME3 I might just go screw this. So yeah I feel your point.

And yes if its done right it'll be awesome but what I've seen of ME comics so far doesn't have me holding my breath. Massive character derailment (Uh...why is C-Sec guy evil now?). WTF (Udina Councilor? LOL NO!) and cheesy as hell dialogue (I guess they can't screw that up it'll be directly from the game.) . It's just a crappy version of ME1.

And watch me be proven right. I've lost my faith in BW with the whole crappistic clothes being armor nonsense.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 novembre 2010 - 02:44 .

[durasteel]

Elite Midget wrote...

They said the same thing when ME2 started getting rumours that it was coming to the PS3. It was their PR department saving face because they couldn't openly confirm it yet.

The word you're looking for is "lie."

Honestly, that's what this is really all about for me.  I certainly want to see what that comic is all about (I dug the Liara series) and I do want a ME1 save generator, but for me the biggest issue is being lied to over the platform exclusive thing in ME1.  Chris Priestly lied.  Oh, he'll tell you that he nuanced his statements, that he carefully said that Mass Effect for the PC was not in development by BioWare, but BS is BS, and PC gamers were invited to screw themselves before, during , and for several months after the X Box launch.  The message wasn't "Chill out, the PC version will be here in a few months" - it was "We don't plan to do that, ever.  Stop asking."  That was insulting, and it still annoys the crap out of me.  It is in the context of that I receive this, and any, statements from BioWare regarding any platform exclusives, for any length of time.

That one time, with Mass Effect, was not enough to make me stop buying all their games.  It didn't stop me from buying collector's editions.  It hasn't stopped me from buying the DLC before I even read about whether or not it is worth the 5 bucks.  Will two occurrences of the "screw yourself" message?  How about a third one?

This is the kind of crap that turns a customer that pre-orders every collector's edition into one that waits to pick up the game-of-the-year edition on sale.  I'm always going to get BioWare's games, and play them, because they're good games.  That does not mean that BioWare can count on me to throw money at them unconditionally.

Platform Exclusives Suck.

[Elite Midget]

It's just a Comic though... A Comic that's supposed to somehow capture the Magic of ME1. I can even see it missing out on the Smaller Choices like Emily Wong or the Asari Consort. Most likely it'll be all action and only deal with the Main Quest, who you romanced, and whether you were Paragon or Renegade.

Hell, the Comic most likely will miss the one of the things that ME1 did better than ME2. Which was the Romance and the build up for it. We'll see even more posts from PS3 Owners thinking that Ashley is a racist and that Kaiden is just a dull human when they do get the game if Bioware fails to protray them as they were in ME1.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 14 novembre 2010 - 02:45 .

[Ryzaki]

...

Oh god.

...Why did you have to bring that up EM? Now I can hear all the "Why she such a b**** I nucked her racist ass." and "Kaidan's boooring and gay* he's such a wuss and Carth and cries and...and blah blah blah."

Gah.

*I mean gay in the dergotory way not the orientation.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 novembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[charmingcharlie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah I personally think if there's no S/S romance in ME3 I might just go screw this. So yeah I feel your point.

And yes if its done right it'll be awesome but what I've seen of ME comics so far doesn't have me holding my breath. Massive character derailment. WTF (Udina Councilor? LOL NO!) and cheesy as hell dialogue (I guess they can't screw that up it'll be directly from the game.) . It's just a crappy version of ME1.

And watch me be proven right. I've lost my faith in BW with the whole crappistic clothes being armor nonsense.

See we can agree on some things I understand where you are coming with Udina that was explained by Drew Karpyshyn as :-

Sometimes for the novels, certain things have to be "taken for granted" in order to tell a story.

But this isn't really a "ret-con", as there was no established canon in the first place.

I
realize some people get very upset when something is established that
contradicts their personal game experience, and we try to minimize the
impact. But if we want to continue expanding the Mass Effect universe,
there are times when we have to take certain decisions from the game and
go with one alternative over another so we can build on what has
happened.

Hopefully the Mass Effect fans will understand our position and not get too bent out of shape.

Now hopefully this won't be an issue with the ME comic since I would have thought at the very least major decisions such as Udina (trying not to spoil things here) will be "choosable" in the comic.

I also think we need to get the traditional comic book idea out of our heads. This isn't going to be a comic like a paper comic.  The interactive comic will be much more flexible, I have been looking around on the net for examples of interactive comics, here are a couple I have found :-

http://www.hotelosca...com/splash.html

http://www.zark.com/pages2/az50.html

http://www.dead-on-arrival.co.uk/

Now bear in mind these comics do not have the resources that Bioware has and they are just examples of interactive comics.  However looking at those examples makes me eager to see just what Bioware will actually do with this interactive comic.

Modifié par charmingcharlie, 14 novembre 2010 - 02:51 .

[durasteel]

Elite Midget wrote...
Let me play it out in a comical manner so you'll understand how much of a low blow your way would be.

PS3 Owner: I waited a year for this! Sure we don't get ME1 too but we have this Comic that'll introduce us to the Universe!
PC/360 Owner: Haha! I got the Comic AND ME1!
PS3: Bu-but... The Comic was supposed to compensate for the fact that we can't play ME1! Why would you want that?
PC/360 Owner: Why? Well, I'm lazy and I wanna make my 50th Shepard. Not to mention that you have something I wanted so I whined untill Bioware gave it to me! Having more choices than you guys is AWESOME!
PS3: But the Comic was our thing...
PC/360: Not anymore! Enjoy your Inferior ME experience while I enjoy having more CHOICES than you!

I dare you to tell a PS3 owner that he's that pathetic to his face.  Also, you left out the PC/360 Owner's evil laugh, e.g. "Mwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaah."  "Haha" just doesn't really get it done.

The comic doesn't compensate for anything.  A dab of KY doesn't change the fact that they got screwed, and copping a quick feel on the PC & XBox customers doesn't really amount to a move towards "fairness."

Almost all the people who buy this game for the PS3 will be doing so for the same reason: they have a PS3, and the want to play ME2 on it.  Notice how the words "comic" and "interactive" do not appear in that reason, anywhere.  There are a few people who will waver on the fence, and will go ahead and buy the game because it has the tool to generate a ME1 save so they get to control those variables.  I very much doubt that anyone at all, ever, would say "Wait... PC and XBox players can get this comic too, for a minimal cost?  Oh, well, to hell with this piece of trash, then.  If they can get it, I don't want it."

Modifié par durasteel, 14 novembre 2010 - 02:59 .

[durasteel]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh so the PC version didn't get bonus DLC for free then? 

For the record, the fact that Bring Down the Sky was free did not in any way effect my purchase decision.  If it had been $5, I would have spent it.  I bought Pinnacle Station, which was not even in the same league with its older sibling.

[Ryzaki]

charmingcharlie wrote...

See we can agree on some things I understand where you are coming with Udina that was explained by Drew Karpyshyn as :-

Sometimes for the novels, certain things have to be "taken for granted" in order to tell a story.

But this isn't really a "ret-con", as there was no established canon in the first place.

I
realize some people get very upset when something is established that
contradicts their personal game experience, and we try to minimize the
impact. But if we want to continue expanding the Mass Effect universe,
there are times when we have to take certain decisions from the game and
go with one alternative over another so we can build on what has
happened.

Hopefully the Mass Effect fans will understand our position and not get too bent out of shape.

Now hopefully this won't be an issue with the ME comic since I would have thought at the very least major decisions such as Udina (trying not to spoil things here) will be "choosable" in the comic.

I also think we need to get the traditional comic book idea out of our heads. This isn't going to be a comic like a paper comic.  The interactive comic will be much more flexible, I have been looking around on the net for examples of interactive comics, here are a couple I have found :-

http://www.hotelosca...com/splash.html

http://www.zark.com/pages2/az50.html

http://www.dead-on-arrival.co.uk/

Now bear in mind these comics do not have the resources that Bioware has and they are just examples of interactive comics.  However looking at those examples makes me eager to see just what Bioware will actually do with this interactive comic.

Urgh. That "explanation" was just...urgh. At least the DA team railroads me properly without waiting for a sequel. (I hope they don't screw up the Warden's choices...) There's no point in specificing Udina unless the whole thing is trying to set him up as a bad guy. (Which is even more lame. He went from a jerk to a complete and utter douchebag in one game.)

Hm...those comics like okay. 

[Ryzaki]

durasteel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh so the PC version didn't get bonus DLC for free then? 

For the record, the fact that Bring Down the Sky was free did not in any way effect my purchase decision.  If it had been $5, I would have spent it.  I bought Pinnacle Station, which was not even in the same league with its older sibling.

Maybe it didn't affect yours doesn't mean it didn't affect someone else's.

That said ME had the advantage of coming out late on a superior platform. *puts on PC elitist hat* 

[Skilled Seeker]

Its funny how this argument keeps going in circles. Everything has been said. Let it die.

[Emyer]

The comic really could end up being really good, especially if they go the extra mile and make it a motion comic with VO, although I'm curious how they'll do Shepard, they can't really have us creating a character before the comic can they ? Or else that character couldn't be portrayed due to the ammount of different faces you can create, I guess they'll let you choose sex and background and then just use a "canon" face for the player avatar, that or the face will be almost always covered by a helmet or hidden using smart angles and then at the start of ME2 you can customize your appearance and stats.

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah I personally think if there's no S/S romance in ME3 I might just go screw this. So yeah I feel your point.

S/S romace, what's that ? Shepard-Samara ? 

[10 Steps Back]

This is why I love late ports just reading the justifications and discussions are much more interesting than whatever my usual site does.

[charmingcharlie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hm...those comics like okay. 

Well like I said those are just low budget examples of what can be done with a comic when it is on an interactive medium.  The minute some one says "comic" to me I naturally think of framed boxes with static pictures in them and for paper comics that is true.  But for the ME 1 comic there is plenty of scope for animation, sound and interactivity.

I know I am hoping this comic will be a fantastic experience.  Obviously nothing will replace ME 1 but this interactive comic sounds like a pretty cool experience and being a fan of Mass Effect I don't particularly relish the thought of not having this experience.

Obviously there is no way this comic will "encourage" me to buy a PS3 and a copy of Mass Effect 2 for the PS3.  I am a PC gamer through and through.  If something isn't on the PC then I am not interested.

Emyer wrote...
S/S romace, what's that ? Shepard-Samara ? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]

He means "same sex" romances you know male + male or female + female relationships.

Modifié par charmingcharlie, 14 novembre 2010 - 03:27 .

[TelexFerra]

Why isn't this content available to me on my commodore 64? I've been discriminated against the most here.

[Skilled Seeker]

Ryzaki wrote...

durasteel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh so the PC version didn't get bonus DLC for free then? 

For the record, the fact that Bring Down the Sky was free did not in any way effect my purchase decision.  If it had been $5, I would have spent it.  I bought Pinnacle Station, which was not even in the same league with its older sibling.

Maybe it didn't affect yours doesn't mean it didn't affect someone else's.

That said ME had the advantage of coming out late on a superior platform. *puts on PC elitist hat* 

[Ryzaki]

charmingcharlie wrote...

Emyer wrote...
S/S romace, what's that ? Shepard-Samara ? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]

She means "same sex" romances you know male + male or female + female relationships.

Fix'd

Anyways I don't know. Shep's face is not going to have to be seen (or we'll get stuck with default shep and have another drove of "Default Shep is the only true shep LOL" morons). >_>

LOL @ the pic I was joking about the hat but still.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 novembre 2010 - 03:28 .

[Emyer]

charmingcharlie wrote...

Emyer wrote...
S/S romace, what's that ? Shepard-Samara ? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]

He means "same sex" romances you know male + male or female + female relationships.

Yeah, just saw her sig *feels like an idiot* : P

[charmingcharlie]

Ryzaki wrote...

charmingcharlie wrote...

She means "same sex" romances you know male + male or female + female relationships.

Fix'd

Whoops many apologies

Here is another decent example of an "interactive" comic :-

http://www.nawlz.com/season1/

The funny thing is I am not that big a fan of comics to be honest.  I have the Redemption comic series and skimmed through it once or twice to get the gist of it.  But for some reason this ME interactive comic has me curious as to just what it is going to be like.

It is certainly a brave route for them to take, they could have easily copped out and done a quick video recap and some question and answer bull.  I just hope they pull it off, it could be a tremendous success or hell and damnation will descend on Bioware,  Either way rather them than me

[Ryzaki]

True. I hope it is a success (wouldn't hurt for them to somehow sneak ME1 on the PS3 either maybe in a 3 games on 1 disc special?)



I love manga but I've never really gotten into western comics. Probably the art styles.



True it is a risk and it can either be a huge win, a meh or a epic fail. Let's home its a huge win.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I don't think it would be cost effective for them to package it like that especially since they are a third party publisher

What might work is just to have it as a downloadable title

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 14 novembre 2010 - 03:45 .