24 réponses à ce sujet

[HippeusOmega]

I'm so sick of using Lelina when trying to get this trophy for me to use a Rogue to lvl 20. I don't know what she does but she dies on a regular basis which is just fun. So i wanna do a rogue with the lockpicking skills also. Anyhow i thought of a idea would it be possible to roleplay as a Legion of the Dead type rogue. Basically I would be wearing the Legion Armor Set and using 2 daggers/swords. Basically when i hit Awakening I would pick up Legionare Scout and respec my points later in Awakening since the Mark of Legion gives +10 to strength and +10 to constiution.

Basically my Dwarf would look like something like this cause i wanted something unquie.

Race: Dwarf Noble
class: Rogue
Caste: Dead Caste, Paragon Status (at the end of Origins)
Specializations: Duelist, Legionare Scout, and Assassin

Equipment:

Weapon 1: The Rose Thorn
Weapon 2: Thorn of the Dead Gods
Helmet: Helmet of the Legion
Body: Armor of the Legion
Gloves: Gloves of the Legion
Feet: Boots of the Legion

Amulet: The High Regard of House Dace
Belt: Andruil's Blessing
Ring 1: Key to the City
Ring 2: The Lifegiver

Stats: (minus w/e i get from the fade and gear wise)

Strength: 42
Dexerity: 36
Cunning: 22

Skills: (Can't remember how many points i get i think its like 27-28 i think)

Basically skills i know i want

Dirty Fighting, Combat Movement, Coup De Grace
Deft Hands, Improved Tools, Mechicanal Expertise, Device Mastery
Stealth, Stealth item use, Combat Stealth, Master Stealth
Dual Weapon Training, Dual Weapon Finesse, Dual Weapon Expert, Dual Weapon Mastery
Dual Weapon Sweep, Flurry, Momentum

Modifié par Panznerr, 06 novembre 2010 - 10:51 .

[Elhanan]

Good concept, and the DN should yield a nice purse during the course of the game, as well as being a bit different than Sigrun.

Personally, I am not a fan of the armor, which is why I give it to Oghren generally. I do advise getting aquiring an alternative set or two, in case. Cailan's set and Wade's Superior plate are both solid choices; Evon's heavy, too.

Thorn of the Gods may not be the best dagger choice, but I am uncertain. The Edge, Crow, Thaig Shanker, and Duncan's should be considered. You may wish to consider larger weapons too, as you will have the STR.

Stats: If Deft Hands (4) is used, a 30 Cunning is advised to get every lock & trap. I cannot recall if this is a modified score or not, so you may wish to check.

Skills: I believe you may get 12 base skills, plus any from Tomes and other game adds. I recommend Combat Training, Coersion, Survival, and Stealing, and Poison 1.

Talents: Good choices. I would add Duelist 3-4, and more DW slts, and/or Archer top line.

Have fun!

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

If you are going to use two daggers you probably shouldn't go past two levels on dw weapon training.

Modifié par Jacks Smirking Revenge, 07 novembre 2010 - 06:03 .

[termokanden]

I would take the first 3 levels of the dual weapon line. The fourth one is negligible and basically useless if you're not using full-sized weapons in both hands. The third one gives you some damage over time (not impressive at all), but it also gives you additional crit chance.

Stats: (minus w/e i get from the fade and gear wise)

Strength: 42
Dexerity: 36
Cunning: 22

Since it will take a good while to get all the gear gathered anyway, I would suggest figuring out how much strength you actually need AFTER all gear and Fade bonuses. If you're using daggers, then points in strength that exceed the level you need to wear the armor you want are kind of wasted. You'd get defense and the same amount of damage for putting those points into dex instead.

Also, if you KNOW you will be using The High Regard of House Dace and two other items that each give you +2 stats, that would bring you above 30 points in cunning with the 22 you have. So 22 BASE cunning is actually perfect for opening everything if you have Device Mastery. You might want more cunning for the damage (if you take Assassin for example), but not for opening locks.

Stats: If Deft Hands (4) is used, a 30 Cunning is advised to get every lock & trap. I cannot recall if this is a modified score or not, so you may wish to check.

Modified, so with his gear it's a non-issue. I learned this when Leliana couldn't open a specific lock. Gave her The High Regard of House Dace and tried again. It worked.

Modifié par termokanden, 07 novembre 2010 - 10:56 .

[HippeusOmega]

I believe I get 33-34 skill points total. How should i order my skills so i make the most out of leveling. Like a talent point guide per say. I would probably say i would have +8 str with fade bonuses. so 34 strength should be good.

[termokanden]

+8 sounds about right. Also if you start out with the Circle, then you'll have the Key to the City, Andruil's Blessing and the Fade bonuses before you even find the Legion armor.



Talent point guide? Not particularly useful. You get the biggest gain out of Momentum for dual weapon fighting, so some people like to get that as early as possible. Otherwise it's not really important to do it in a specific order.

[Elhanan]

Panznerr wrote...

I believe I get 33-34 skill points total. How should i order my skills so i make the most out of leveling. Like a talent point guide per say. I would probably say i would have +8 str with fade bonuses. so 34 strength should be good.

Not exactly certain how STR & DEX effects daggers. but I do not bother with the min/max number crunching, and get the STR I need (ie; 38 for heavy armor; 42 for massive). There are a couple spots in the game that strip you of gear, so I prefer to design the PC w/o items, rather than rely upon certain specific  gear.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Pretty certain dagger damage is counted only from Dex. I also don't count gear toward equipping X, but with this build type, you'll be spreading attribute points a bit thin, so you might at least consider what you can get quickest and will always use. While there are places that strip you of your gear, there's only one where you can't get it back very quickly.

[Elhanan]

Per this Wiki entry, it is either STR, or part STR & part DEX:

http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Daggers

[termokanden]

The game robs you of your gear once if you are a dwarf. That's before you can even wear any of the stuff that requires 42 strength, so it doesn't even matter.

In Awakening it happens again, but only for a very short while. Oh and then you of course are also robbed of the armor you need the strength for in the first place. In other words, this is really not something to worry about at all.

As for daggers using strength or dex, they only used strength before they were patched. Now it's half-half, meaning you get equal amounts from each. That makes dex far superior once you've reached the strength you need to wear the armor you want.

Modifié par termokanden, 08 novembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[Elhanan]

If both weapons are daggers, DEX could be more useful as it also helps ranged combat. I prefer to run one large weapon/dagger myself, so STR helps with both choices.

[termokanden]

I actually meant for the defense. Think about it. Heavy armor, high defense and stealth. You'd be very, very hard to kill.

[HippeusOmega]

My Dwarf Noble is lvl 5 so far and has 18 strength and 29 dex base so far. Once i have it at 36 i'll probably start upping my strength to 34 or so while increasing my cunning for skills. The rest will go into my Cunning for my Assassin modifiers when my strength is done. Should i even bother with the ability that turns my Cunning into dmg. Since my strength will already be 42 give or take with gear and fade bonuses? Also since i'm not using Lelina should i pick Duelist for my 2nd or Bard? Personally i think Duelist would be a good 2nd choice. I know its a bit unadorax to make a rogue like this but like i said wanted something unquie. If someone can give me some ideas on Rogue Dual Wielding Skills it would be appreciated. Seems all u need really is Momentum and Dual Daggers.

Edit: Or should i get my cunning to 22 and my strength to 34 and pump dex for a dex rogue maybe? I know i'm spreading my attributes thin like u guys said so. Although i think people make dex rogues for evasion which might not need to be the case with Duelist's abilites, Stealth and using Legion armor.

Modifié par Panznerr, 09 novembre 2010 - 03:40 .

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Unless you plan to have your Cunning higher then Strength, no. And if you are, you can hold off on taking it until such time Cunning does rise over Strength. Bard is great for Cunning and Archer builds, I'd say go with Duelist for a Dex build. If you just plan to backstab things to death, and as the Assassin stamina recovery talent requires that, then yeah, Momentum and Dual wielding Expert are all you need. Riposte is very useful though, some damage and a stun to turn next few blows into backstabs after you get coup de grace. Cripple, Punisher and Whirlwind have some uses, but will somewhat lower DPS. They're good if you're facing something that can't be stunned and you can't get an angle for a backstab, though.

[HippeusOmega]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

Unless you plan to have your Cunning higher then Strength, no. And if you are, you can hold off on taking it until such time Cunning does rise over Strength. Bard is great for Cunning and Archer builds, I'd say go with Duelist for a Dex build. If you just plan to backstab things to death, and as the Assassin stamina recovery talent requires that, then yeah, Momentum and Dual wielding Expert are all you need. Riposte is very useful though, some damage and a stun to turn next few blows into backstabs after you get coup de grace. Cripple, Punisher and Whirlwind have some uses, but will somewhat lower DPS. They're good if you're facing something that can't be stunned and you can't get an angle for a backstab, though.

Thanks least i know what direction to go with my DN Rogue i wanted to make like this.

[Elhanan]

You may wish to bump STR to 20 to take advantage of top tier light armor until you can get better heavy/massive sets.

And all I tend to play is Duelist/Assassin, as I am not fond of the other two specs.

[termokanden]

I have said it before and I'll say it again. That is a shame, because Bard is incredibly good whether you want to believe it or not.



Of course when you have a low-cunning build then by all means take Duelist instead.

[Elhanan]

Same main reason I do not like Lethality line: one decent Talent in the tier is not worth the investment.

[termokanden]

I don't understand that either. Both Song of Courage and Lethality are so good that they're easily worth 3 points each. That is, if your cunning is not really low.



By the way, it costs 3 points just to get Dueling to give the full buff. The middle point is for a ridiculous attack that nobody uses. The fourth point in dueling gives you a short buff on a VERY long cooldown, for a class that already specializes in being able to crit with each attack.



And what about all the points leading up to Scattershot? At least 2 of those are realistically never used because... well they suck. Yet every archer with any non-zero amount of sense takes Scattershot.



Anyway, sorry to have made this a long discussion. But whenever you mention that Bard is bad, I can't help myself.

[Elhanan]

termokanden wrote...

I don't understand that either. Both Song of Courage and Lethality are so good that they're easily worth 3 points each. That is, if your cunning is not really low.

By the way, it costs 3 points just to get Dueling to give the full buff. The middle point is for a ridiculous attack that nobody uses. The fourth point in dueling gives you a short buff on a VERY long cooldown, for a class that already specializes in being able to crit with each attack.

And what about all the points leading up to Scattershot? At least 2 of those are realistically never used because... well they suck. Yet every archer with any non-zero amount of sense takes Scattershot.

Anyway, sorry to have made this a long discussion. But whenever you mention that Bard is bad, I can't help myself.

So Duelist has two decent selections of 3 or 4, while Bard has 1. Lethality ditto.

And that Archer line you speak of has Rapid Shot (not much good past the early lvls, but it can help those before gaining Rapid Aim items). Shattering Shot (takes a mage or archer down much like Stone Fist), Suppresive Fire (seems to work well, and gets favorable rviews here), and Scattershot. Worth it every time for me.

Guess I ain't into sinking three Talents into a build which uses high Cunning; sure do not care for the major Talent forcusing me to rely on staying put singing solos.

But at least I have tried a Bard; cannot say the same for Ranger.

[termokanden]

Elhanan wrote...

So Duelist has two decent selections of 3 or 4, while Bard has 1. Lethality ditto.

On the contrary, I think Pinpoint Strike is marginal. It doesn't give you any more crits if you are backstabbing. Even if you are not, it has a huge cooldown and short duration.

Anyway, I could keep arguing so I'll try to boil it down to a simple point: If you don't like rogues with high cunning, you're not going to like Bard or Lethality. But I think Assassin, Bard and Lethality are key to making the high cunning build work. So you waste some points getting to Lethality and Song of Courage - you really do have enough points to survive it.

Furthermore, if you have very high cunning, you can skip the Deft Hands line entirely, saving you four talent points. Neat.

Guess I ain't into sinking three Talents into a build which uses high Cunning; sure do not care for the major Talent forcusing me to rely on staying put singing solos.

It's marginally useful in an emergency I guess. But don't take Bard for that one. I personally don't even take the last point in Bard.

But at least I have tried a Bard; cannot say the same for Ranger.

It's not spectacular, but it's always nice to have someone you can easily sacrifice with no penalties whatsoever. It's also a nice little damage boost.

Modifié par termokanden, 09 novembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[HippeusOmega]

Anyhow i wanna thank u guys for the support. I know some ppl on Gamefaqs would go don't make a rogue like that. Its my character lol. Noticed a small problem not sure if thats the power of backstabbing but i kill the enemies so fast on Normal mode with just like base gear + the high regard of house dace atm and sometimes the game hangs waiting to respawn them. Am i killing them way to fast with this Dps build?

[termokanden]

Not sure what you mean by "hangs". In a few places, like the Redcliffe battle, you can kill things faster than they spawn for sure. Shouldn't hang normally.

[HippeusOmega]

When i was in Soldier's Peak took awhile to load their respawn timers. Noticed it on my AW when i went to Redcliffe around lvl 13 when i was killing them too fast and glitched their respawn timers. Couple times i had to go back to Ser Perath and Murdock on my AW file i'm doing also.

[termokanden]

Yeah Soldier's Peak would be another example. Luckily, in most of the game you never have to wait for timers like those.