179 réponses à ce sujet

[robotnist]

Mass Effect to ME2 and DA:O to DA2...???

why not make one IP an action RPG like Mass effect and the other fantasy setting a full on RPG? why start everything off as a hard core RPG and then water both of them down?

you know with the mass effect series it didnt bother me as much. in fact role play wise it kinda worked for a futuristic setting/sci-fi setting.

but with a world like dragon age, where half of the fun i had in that game was sifting through the UI (like a charcter sheet from a long gone D&D campaign), it seems like bioware is doign a diservice to the IP. i lOVED looking through items and gear in DA:O!!! i LOVED the UI and the UI style. i loved the maps, i loved gearing up a whole party of characters.

if its all gone now, i will be very sad. i'm not specualting on what is changing, only what i will miss if it does change.

i can't say enough about Dragon Age: Origins. how excited i was waiting for that game and the day it came out how i had 3 hours of sleep and picked it up at 11am and played it for 24 hours straight.

it is the definition of a PERFECT game for me. to change that chemistry at all and in ANY way is a huge disappointment to me. now i know other will enjoy and even want the change and other will probably feel like i do.

but i'm curious, if these new features and settings only draw in 10-20% new customers and half of us are unhappy with the changes, and half of that half dont come back, it was all sacraficed for naught.

truly, i undertsand that its naive to claim such "ownership" of an IP by a fan. and that expecting a company to make no changes because anyone would feel this way is also absurd.

but what happens when something is created with such perfection in your eyes that it is going to be changed because the developer thinks it is the direction that is ultimately best for a franchise? thinking eventually we'll all see the light and follow the new direction because they feel whole-heartedly that it will make sense in the long run-

what happens if theyre wrong???

what if 90% of everyone who played DAO loves it the way it is? at what point do you make a fuss hoping that perhaps what i'm doing here, talking about this, is even the right approach?

i think to when square-enix was working on dragonquest 9 for the DS and how they told the community it was going to be a hack and slash game and the community replied with vitriol saying they wanted it to be turn based or it wasnt a DQ game anymore?

should i make a stink in honor of what was created? do i want to cross that line? am i doing it for the good of this game and community?

or am i just being selfish because i experienced a game the exact way i always wished to experience a game and i a very small minority?

i'm sure most of you can tell i'm being devil's advocate here, although what i'm hoping is truth.

you know, maybe i woudlnt mind if i knew Obsidian was coming along to save the day...

maybe if they popped in and said "while bioware is working on an action based version of dragon age, were going to deliver a new Dragon Age, built with the Origins toolset that allows you to create 4 characters at the beginning and gather various NPCs throughout your 80 hour campaign that allows for a total of 6 in a party."

life wouldnt be so bad for me then, lol. i would be able to have the action based DA2, but the torch wouldnt go out for DAO, which is essentially what it feels like to me. i'm not trying to sound dramatic.

but the experience i had in ME1 was more enjoyable than i had in ME2. when i beat ME1 i immediately turned around at 2am and started a new game, i couldnt wait!!! thats quite a feeling that a game is done SO RIGHT that it has a great story but still has replay-ability. but when i finished ME2, i didnt touch it again for 3-4 months?!?!? thats insane to me...

will DA2 feel like this as well? i still play DAO, i usually play it day after day for 3-4 months then i will take a month off if something new comes out like fallout new vegas and fable 3, but i'm already back and playing DAO again!!! its phenominal to me!!!

will that feeling be gone again???

it happened with phantasy star online!!! all of my friends and i played PSO non stop for 2 years, we loved it.... all sega had to do was build and expound upon that formula, and here were are, 10 years later, and i have not played a game like that since.

so am i being dramatic? sure. will others disagree with me? at least a large minority, if not the new majority that bioware is making games for now. maybe i just can't see it because i don't have that information. maybe theres a projected populace who would have played DAO that wouldnt because of the things i loved. maybe the things i love about DAO are the things keeping bioware from becoming a quadruple "A" company.

if so, thats a shame, and i'm just poo-outta luck. but, if this is a misguided mistake, and someone was misinformed as to what the majority REALLY wants then were going to lose out if were not heard...

please take some time to read some of this large post, i know its kinda too big for a quick read, but if your going to comment, please read some of it. i would be glad to hear how others feel about this new info.

Modifié par etherhonky, 11 novembre 2010 - 05:13 .

[Bio Addict]

Well you're a lot more civil then most of the other haters, I'll give you that. I'll only add that Bioware isn't stupid, I'm sure they have a marketing department and the changes they make to DA2 are likely to draw in more then just 10 -20% new players.

[In Exile]

Let's say you have two cars. One, to you, is brilliant. Top of the line engineering. The other is dated in every respect. It may have been a good car a decade ago, but right now, it's just plain inferior. If you're developing a new model of either car, you're going to keep the first the same and alter the second.

Bioware legitimately believes that what is going on in DA2 is going to produce a better game than DA:O. They are proud of their own developments, like the dialogue wheel and PC VO. There's no reason for them not to merge their products.

Beside, they're keeping the gameplay the same for DA:O. It's not going to be less of a party-based game. The inventory seems to be chanelling PS:T, and so is the story. That's a high standard to strive for.

[SirOccam]

What if they're right? What if they increase their playerbase by 100% because of this? What if 90% of people on these forums loved DAO but love DA2 as well?

There's really no point in pointing out the worst case scenario then freaking out about it.

This is BioWare...they got this.

I'm not sure how inventory has anything to do with the "RPG world" anyway. Thedas is an awesome RPG world continent, and it's not going to change because of some inventory tweaks or by combat looking a bit different.

Modifié par SirOccam, 07 novembre 2010 - 04:18 .

[robotnist]

i guess i forgot to also so, theres NO way i would pass DA2 up. i am such a fan of the world of Thedas and i love my Ferelden way too much to spit some vitriol here and leave for good.



i'm actually very excited for DA2. i really do believe it will be much better of an experience than ME2 was for me personally. and also, i just got a chance to see the 3 screenshots they put up next to the latest podcast with the news about these changes and i hate to say it/love to say it. even though simplified for NPCs the UI looks SUPER sexy and cool. just seeing the icons for stuff etc...



but whats the deal with the "stars" rating next to the items in the inventory, kinda like the fable weapon and armor rating system??!!?? i really like that!!! is that basically replacing calling items by their material, i.e.-



iron sword = 1 star

grey iron = 2 star

steel = 3 star ? etc?

that works for me.



anyways, also, the on major feature i will say i amd super excited for is that the visual of this game (and if the combat is what they say it is, more detailed and immediate) then i think we will be seeing the dragon age world with a more detailed view!!! i mean, the look (and the look of what the feel might be) just seems to be the difference between playing an isometric RPG with great story and playing an action RPG with a gorgeous explorable world ala fables flower pasted rolling hills and beautiful large trees!!!



i am excited, i just hope that initial feeling i had in DAO is not gone....

[upsettingshorts]

Mike Laidlaw simply said it was to help reference whether newly acquired gear was good relative to your level or not. I didnt get that it replaced anything.

[Esbatty]

I'm gonna sex Dragon Age 2 so hard, its gonna - its gonna wish I didn't sex it so hard. Yeah.



...



But seriously, all I see is mostly tweaks and some minor improvements, I dont' see any mega-changes going on. Some people act like how the story is told is game breaking. Its like being read a book every night before bedtime except this new book is being read to you from the same series as the last except with new characters and the person reading the story to you is now doing all the characters voices when they read the lines.

[Dave of Canada]

Here's the thing most people tend to ignore, Mass Effect (the first one) was dumbed down. Not for the shooter fans but for the RPG fans, though the extremely vocal haters never admit it considering they like acting the victim. The game was almost unplayable by the shooter majority and a lot of RPG fans because it was hated by both, however it still developed a community of itself and it was well loved.

For the second one, they decided that they didn't need to act like the game was a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none game and decided to improve the combat. I'm a big fan of the first game, loved it far more than the second one, but it's unplayable to me because of how much the second one improved upon the first one. There are flaws, yes. Though the game itself is still roughly an RPG.

Dragon Age is similar in this regard, it appealed to a hack & slash majority and the Baldur's Gate nostalgia factor. The "New Sh*t" trailer for example wasn't targeted to the forum reader, contrary to what most people would say. It attracted an audience out there that had never heard of Baldur's Gate, the masses you see on these forums have probably never even touched Baldur's Gate and only heard of it from the "oldies".

Before Origins came out, the forums were littered with threads about how Bioware had sold out and the game was going to flop because it was nothing but a hack & slash. Sound familiar? Should be, we're going through the exact same thing right this very moment. Dragon Age had it's flaws, though these forums would wish for you to believe it to be the best game ever.

I'll take the inventory for example, it's one of those "big hits" at the moment. How many times did you open a chest and looted nothing but a dagger? That one, measly dagger that granted you nothing but maybe a handful of copper that you used to buy a flask? How about those Blank Vellums, the same ones littered everywhere and served no purpose? The removal of said items would remove a lot of loot from the game, clear it up.

"CHOICE IS BEING REMOVED", people will yell out. This is in fact not true, they are removing the illusion of choice. When you're presented with useless items that you outright ignore, it serves no purpose being there. While a player might feel interested in searching the cabinet in the hopes that there's more there than a dagger, there will ALWAYS be a dagger. After a while, you just ignore the cabinets.

One must simply view Dragon Age as a fine steak with a lot of access fat, once you trim the fat it'll look smaller but without the fat you're only getting into the finest part of said steak.

The truth of the matter is, the outrage that we're seeing on the forums isn't common. We're the small minority that knows of the game's existence and devour every piece of information, dissecting it like if we're doctors or scientists. The average consumer who enjoys the product and has fun with it won't come onto the forums, saying it's the most brilliant idea ever. If everybody on this forum left, their profits would be hurting but not as much as people seem to think.

One must simply look at the restaurant business, how many times is the chef complimented by the staff for having done a good job? How many times is he thanked for the delightful food he made? Rarely, if at all. Though, one person decides he hates his meal and storms into the kitchen and yells at the chef that he's the worse chef ever. To the masses, what will it appear like? Just an angry person yelling or the chef is incompetent? I'll tell you right now; it's not the former.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 novembre 2010 - 04:46 .

[imyangxp]

maybe more free choice or double line of the beginning-----new hero grows and the heroes still animato

[Helena Tylena]

Dave, you're my new hero. Can I have your babies?

[Dave of Canada]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Dave, you're my new hero. Can I have your babies?

Sure, though... I promised my first born to JohnEpler.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 novembre 2010 - 04:55 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

See when I think of freedom of Choice the only game that springs to mind that does it in a way where I personally would be satisfied is actually Star Fox 64. I mean sure in games like DA, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 you can rewrite some of the parts and roles depending on what you do. But the setting, set pieces and storyline hook remain the same.

[Helena Tylena]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sure, though... I promised my first born to JohnEpler.

I don't care! As long as the others taste delicious!

Modifié par Helena Tylena, 07 novembre 2010 - 04:56 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sure, though... I promised my first born to JohnEpler.

I don't care! As long as the others taste delicious!

Go on

[Dave of Canada]

Helena Tylena wrote...

I don't care! As long as the others taste delicious!

They never taste quite like the first one, unfortunately.

[Helena Tylena]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

I don't care! As long as the others taste delicious!

They never taste quite like the first one, unfortunately.

A pity...

But they still taste good in their own right, no?

[Dave of Canada]

Helena Tylena wrote...

A pity...

But they still taste good in their own right, no?

I guess, could be worse. We could be eating puppies.

[AtreiyaN7]

That you thought ME1 was somehow a hardcore RPG is laughable - hohoho. I loved it, but you know, it was always RPG lite anyway.

[tmp7704]

Dave of Canada wrote...

"CHOICE IS BEING REMOVED", people will yell out. This is in fact not true, they are removing the illusion of choice. When you're presented with useless items that you outright ignore, it serves no purpose being there. While a player might feel interested in searching the cabinet in the hopes that there's more there than a dagger, there will ALWAYS be a dagger. After a while, you just ignore the cabinets.

One must simply view Dragon Age as a fine steak with a lot of access fat, once you trim the fat it'll look smaller but without the fat you're only getting into the finest part of said steak.

You know, to continue this meal analogy, while you're praising the chef for trimming the fat so that you can then pay the same amount of money for much smaller "but all the finest!" parts of the steak, one can wonder why not take away said fat but replace it with delicious sauce, instead.

If getting daggers in every cabinet sucks because the loot tables created originally are **** and fail, then maybe a better route is to do these loot tables in way that gives more interesting drops. Not to axe the loot altogether and go all "yay, it's streamlined nao!"

Granted, the axing is easier. And as long as at the end of day the idiots still pay the same money for their smaller meals, then why care.

[Sir JK]

tmp7704 wrote...
You know, to continue this meal analogy, while you're praising the chef for trimming the fat so that you can then pay the same amount of money for much smaller "but all the finest!" parts of the steak, one can wonder why not take away said fat but replace it with delicious sauce, instead.

If getting daggers in every cabinet sucks because the loot tables created originally are **** and fail, then maybe a better route is to do these loot tables in way that gives more interesting drops. Not to axe the loot altogether and go all "yay, it's streamlined nao!".

Of course, what people are currently doing is hearing that the chef is trimming the steak and then assuming there is no sauce provided, with no indication of that having been given. To expand on the analogy further.

[tmp7704]

Sir JK wrote...

Of course, what people are currently doing is hearing that the chef is trimming the steak and then assuming there is no sauce provided, with no indication of that having been given. To expand on the analogy further.

I think it depends on what exactly you choose to apply the analogy to. If it's specifically about existence of loot and such then certainly, there's jumping to conclusion going on here. Some other aspects, not so much.

[AlanC9]

etherhonky, you might want to change the thread title. The one you've got sounds like they're changing something about the worlds, and you don't seem to have any problems with how those are turning out.

[Dave of Canada]

tmp7704 wrote...

You know, to continue this meal analogy, while you're praising the chef for trimming the fat so that you can then pay the same amount of money for much smaller "but all the finest!" parts of the steak, one can wonder why not take away said fat but replace it with delicious sauce, instead.

If getting daggers in every cabinet sucks because the loot tables created originally are **** and fail, then maybe a better route is to do these loot tables in way that gives more interesting drops. Not to axe the loot altogether and go all "yay, it's streamlined nao!"

Granted, the axing is easier. And as long as at the end of day the idiots still pay the same money for their smaller meals, then why care.

Improving loot tables can only go so far. If say... they improved the loot tables greatly, it'll only lead to the same thing but instead of ignoring such items like Daggers we'd be ignoring Heavy Plate Armor. There will always be a lower grade item that will be considered trash if there's a large influx of items, the only difference being that as the quality of all items increase then the quality of what is considered trash is also increased.

When one finds Enchanted Jockstrap of Mutilation in every two cabinets, it's far more interesting than finding one dagger but after a while you'll find yourself with too many Enchanted Jockstrap of Mutilations that you'd just ignore the cabinets because they have become common and worthless to you. With less loot overall, that one Enchanted Jockstrap of Mutilation you find will be a treasured find and be worth a lot more to you.

Less loot means that less loot is trash, you're given more choice on what is actually worth keeping and using instead of ignoring looting altogether because you know there's nothing of use in that locked crate.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 novembre 2010 - 05:43 .