179 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Sir JK wrote...

*snip*

That's my thoughts, speculation and explanation anyways. Hope it answers some of your questions, helps with some concerns or is just an enjoyable read if nothing else.

Oh snap.
(in a good way)

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 novembre 2010 - 07:01 .

[Aermas]

I would like to see more cities in DA 2 than Origins had, Redcliff pulled you into a fight & didn't have much in the way of being a city, & Orzammar was drab. I don't count the elves as a city because it was just Valathorn as a vendor.

[TheMufflon]

tmp7704 wrote...

You know, to continue this meal analogy, while you're praising the chef for trimming the fat so that you can then pay the same amount of money for much smaller "but all the finest!" parts of the steak, one can wonder why not take away said fat but replace it with delicious sauce, instead.

Sauce may be fine for you casual diners who don't have the experience and patience to experience a steak as it should be experienced but we hardcore, old school steak eaters don't share your dumbed down tastes. I wish BioWare would stick to making steaks the old fashioned way, instead of catering to the hamburger kiddies who thinks curly fries is an appropriate side dish for steak.

Modifié par TheMufflon, 07 novembre 2010 - 07:26 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Beside, they're keeping the gameplay the same for DA:O.

This is only true if somehow you don't count dialogue or inventory management as gameplay.

And I'd love some justification for that position, given that both takeplace inside the game.

[AlanC9]

TheMufflon wrote...
Sauce may be fine for you casual diners who don't have the experience and patience to experience a steak as it should be experienced but we hardcore, old school steak eaters don't share your dumbed down tastes. I wish BioWare would stick to making steaks the old fashioned way, instead of catering to the hamburger kiddies who thinks curly fries is an appropriate side dish for steak.

At this point in the metaphor mini-game I'll play www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/steak-au-poivre-recipe/index.html.

[Sylvius the Mad]

tmp7704 wrote...

You know, to continue this meal analogy, while you're praising the chef for trimming the fat so that you can then pay the same amount of money for much smaller "but all the finest!" parts of the steak, one can wonder why not take away said fat but replace it with delicious sauce, instead.

Terrible analogy.  As any decent chef will tell you, fat = flavour.

If he trims the fat off the steak, he's going to brush it with butter the entire time it's over the heat.

[Dave of Canada]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

This is only true if somehow you don't count dialogue or inventory management as gameplay.

And I'd love some justification for that position, given that both takeplace inside the game.

When one reviews a game, they do not look upon inventory management as part of gameplay, inventory management is likely to taken into consideration as part of an interface / menu instead of gameplay. One does not "play" the game when he sits at a menu screen for hours on end, just like how one doesn't consider changing volume or switching difficulties as gameplay.

I'd argue about dialogue but I can't express myself.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

In Exile wrote...

There are people out there that think BG2 failed in dramatic fails to live up to BG1, which was the true herald of RPG greatness.

Reactionaries!

And proud of it.

Being right isn't always popular.

[ErichHartmann]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

In Exile wrote...

There are people out there that think BG2 failed in dramatic fails to live up to BG1, which was the true herald of RPG greatness.

Reactionaries!

And proud of it.

Being right isn't always popular.

Right or wrong, still just an opinion. 

[TheMufflon]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Right or wrong, still just an opinion. 

But it is right. Far right, in fact.

[Aermas]

If I can't count the hours of Character Creation as gameplay what is this world coming to?

[Dave of Canada]

*quote fail*

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 novembre 2010 - 08:49 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Aermas wrote...

If I can't count the hours of Character Creation as gameplay what is this world coming to?

I'm inclined even to count the hours I spend researching possible names for the dog.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Dave of Canada wrote...

When one reviews a game, they do not look upon inventory management as part of gameplay, inventory management is likely to taken into consideration as part of an interface / menu instead of gameplay.

And why exactly would we care how the reviewers see it?  Particularly if the reviewers hold a foundationless position.

[Aermas]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Aermas wrote...

If I can't count the hours of Character Creation as gameplay what is this world coming to?

I'm inclined even to count the hours I spend researching possible names for the dog.

It took me 5 mins to choose "Patton" then an hour later, I didn't like it so I re-loaded & renamed him.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
This is only true if somehow you don't count dialogue or inventory management as gameplay.

And I'd love some justification for that position, given that both takeplace inside the game.

I don't. Inventory management, "story" (the nebulous concept that includes the only period where the game models realistic human interaction) and gameplay (where the combat and main action of the game occur) are three different entities.

Inventory management is UI, which is an abstraction for the purposes of interaction (either player or character) with the game world, gameplay is the highy unnatural special state where the world dramatically diverges from all established physical laws in our world, and "story" is where (for the purposes of the game) you act as a real and believable person within the game sphere. Each is an independent area.

Taking place in the game is a neccesary, but not sufficient, condition for gameplay.

[Fortlowe]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Beside, they're keeping the gameplay the same for DA:O.

This is only true if somehow you don't count dialogue or inventory management as gameplay.

And I'd love some justification for that position, given that both takeplace inside the game.

Is the time spent dressing for and commuting to and from work counted towards your salary? No, but it is something that's necessary to go to work. Same thing, with the inventory.

[Dave of Canada]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

And why exactly would we care how the reviewers see it?  Particularly if the reviewers hold a foundationless position.

The way a reviewer plays the game is similar to that of the masses, instead of the Biowarians.

[L33TDAWG]

I'm going to review it as a Biowarian then, and I'm going to be quite blunt with a quick informational review and say that I dislike clicking a button and awesome things happening. I'd much rather set up an awesome event through strategy, than use retarted jump in the air 2 handed ground pound that we have seen on leaked footage, so I give the information on which we have available to us and have seen a solidly gruesome 4 out of 10.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

This is only true if somehow you don't count dialogue or inventory management as gameplay.

And I'd love some justification for that position, given that both takeplace inside the game.

I don't. Inventory management, "story" (the nebulous concept that includes the only period where the game models realistic human interaction) and gameplay (where the combat and main action of the game occur) are three different entities.

Your justification is circular.  Instead of presupposing "gameplay" now you're just presupposing "main action".

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fortlowe wrote...

Is the time spent dressing for and commuting to and from work counted towards your salary? No, but it is something that's necessary to go to work. Same thing, with the inventory.

Commuting? Sure.  Ever hire a plumber?  Travel time counts as labour.

And if you d oget dressed for work, then you're getting paid for getting dressed.  Otherwise you wouldn't do it.

[Fortlowe]

You know exactly what I mean. They aren't paying you to wear the green tie instead of the red one. Their not paying you to buy supreme instead of regular unleaded. They are paying you to work. Same as in the game, whether I use Voldur's Mighty Axe or righteousness of Wifflebat: Nigel's Cudgel of Welting, I'm not playing while I'm deciding between them.

Modifié par Fortlowe, 07 novembre 2010 - 09:34 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fortlowe wrote...

You know exactly what I mean. They aren't paying you to wear the green tie instead of the red one. Their not paying you to buy supreme instead of regular unleaded. They are paying you to work. Same as in the game, whether I use Voldur's Mighty Axe or righteousness of Wifflebat: Nigel's Cudgel of Welting, I'm not playing while I'm deciding between them.

Then why do you bother deciding between them?

Yes, I did know what you meant, and I honestly disagree with you.  Your analysis is horribly shallow.  Anything you spend time doing is something from which you derive some benefit from spending time doing it.  Otherwise you'd spend your time some other way.

[Rawgrim]

Picking what weapon to use is an important part of the game. ergo its gameplay. Even though you don`t actually hack someone to death at that particular moment.

[Fortlowe]

And I find your snobbery to be terribly dull. Just becuase the inventory is as deep as the Grand Canyon doesn't mean I should absolutely have to spend hours calculating statistics and comparing numerous items, to get an acceptable result. Maybe, I'd prefer to spend that time reading the new Codex entry or plumbing one of my companions for more story info.