35 réponses à ce sujet

[TheLegendofWade]

Well...they send their dogs in like it's a cavalry charge.



That's a Ferelden tactic.

[TJPags]

It's not such a terrible tactic, actually. Break up the lines, instill terror, sow disorder, distraction.



Besides, how else would they use the dogs?

[Mnemnosyne]

In a well-organized battle, the dogs wouldn't have been of much use except as an initial sacrifice like that. But with the chaos that battle descended to, there was no reason to send out the dogs on an initial suicide charge, since they would have been much better sticking by their masters and fighting in the paired combat they are likely familiar with. The charge out ahead was a suicide tactic with no hope of any of the dogs surviving, even if the plans went well.

[DreGregoire]

Your assuming the mages were battle trained, right? When would they have gained that skill? Perhaps in the first 3 battles? It does seem like bringing up the chantry influence is a valid thing todo; even at the stategy meeting the chantry witch (lol) tried to shut down the mages. "Save your spells for the darkspawn." It's true that there should have been some magic flying around but it wouldn't have been right next to the king or Duncan. I'm trying to picture where they would have placed the mages; not on the frontlines, right? So for much of the battle you see the frontlines charging and then it cuts to the action around Duncan and Cailan. Could the mages have already been exhausted between the two events? Let's not forget area of effect spells impact your own people. What's the sense of throwing a spell that will take the feet out from under your own men. And setting up traps before hand would have taken the darkspawns attention from where the King wanted it to be. Just my little take. *hugz*

Modifié par DreGregoire, 28 janvier 2011 - 09:56 .

[DreGregoire]

DreGregoire wrote...

Your assuming the mages were battle trained, right? When would they have gained that skill? Perhaps in the first 3 battles? It does seem like bringing up the chantry influence is a valid thing todo; even at the stategy meeting the chantry witch (lol) tried to shut down the mages. "Save your spells for the darkspawn." It's true that there should have been some magic flying around but it wouldn't have been right next to the king or Duncan. I'm trying to picture where they would have placed the mages; not on the frontlines, right? So for much of the battle you see the frontlines charging and then it cuts to the action around Duncan and Cailan. Could the mages have already been exhausted between the two events? Let's not forget area of effect spells impact your own people. What's the sense of throwing a spell that will take the feet out from under your own men. And setting up traps before hand would have taken the darkspawns attention from where the King wanted it to be. Just my little take. *hugz*

Another thing is after talking to Duncan at the tower I got the impression he thought more of the mages as an anti-weapon not an attack weapon. More in the sense of dispelling, healing, and possibly using spells that would slow them down.

[Warrior61]

All I will way is that there were seven mages. One of them was at the tower with you, and he didn't have any AOE spells.

[Joy Divison]

I've never seen a dialogue indicating there are only 7 mages.



Fantasy RPGs have never handled the combination of magic and armies very well. It's almost like oil and water; they just don't mix.

[JnEricsonx]

You know, I've always wondered, even medieval war movies, why only one, maybe two barrages from the archers? I guess its because they figure once there's a cavalry/infantry charge, it won't be as effective? I'd just figure angle lower or hell, near straight on, and you still have charging pincushions. Please, someone explain it to me, I've honestly never gotten it.

[Nannes]

Probably because (in most movies i've seen) after those one or two volleys from the archers, the enemy forces would be upon their own infantry and if the archers kept firing they would hit their own troops.

Also, in some movies, the enemy leaves the bulk of their forces out of range from the archers until they are ready to charge, so the archers would only have a few good oppertunities to shoot until the infantry forces collide.

[Glorfindel709]

Just to give my two cents on the matter.

A) Loghains' strategy relied on the Beacon at the Tower of Ishal being lit at the right time. Alistair comments multiple times that they surely must have missed the signal. When the beacon was not lit in time, Loghain had two options.
1) Continue with the flanking plan against a superior numerical force after Cailans companies charged out from their perfectly defensible choke points to engage the horde directly "Glorious".
2) Save his men to fight another day.

Honestly, from a Commanders perspective, Loghain made what he thought was the best decision - he did not believe that this was a Blight (because lets face it, the last time Duncan and Co. bandied about Blights, it ended up as an orlesian plot + Architect fun times at Kinoch Hold), knew that the chances of Cailan surviving the battle were slim since he demanded to be at the vanguard, and that charging out after the signal was delayed for so long would only lead to the slaughter of his men, leaving Ferelden nearly completely unprotected in any national sense.

Mages were severely leashed by the Chantry, and were most likely kept out of the way ( I mean, the two senior enchanters present managed to escape relatively easily, its' not like they were on the front lines and we know they werent on the Bridge so I imagine they were kept at the rear serving as support for things like healing) not to mention that in order to spread out AoEs along the line they would need to account for shifting of the lines made by the ebbs and surges of combatants not to mention they would need to be reasonably close to the action to be able to distinguish where they should best aim their magics. The fact of that matter is that the only way that Mages laying out AoEs would have been an effective strategy is if they had placed the mages out in the middle of the field and had them spam the edge of the forest as the Darkspawn started to gather for their charge and either die as sacrificial lambs or be carried back with the Horde chasing after them to the back of the Line.

C) The Mabari charge was a delaying tactic, pure and simple, and I imagine that if the battle at ostagar was actually happening and viewable, not condensed into a rather epic cut scene, there would have been a marshalling of the line, a few more volleys of arrows, and perhaps some attempts with nearby traps, fire bombs, acid flasks, ect. Cailans fight was meant to be a holding action to bring the Darkspawn in so Loghain could flank them. Any disruption of the Darkspawn forces charge would help that holding action go on for that much longer.

D) The charge. The most epic thing shown in any medieval movie or game, warriors running with swords raised high as two armies clash for supremacy. It makes for brilliant cinematography, bad military strategy. With the layout of the valley beneath the fortress of Ostagar, not to mention the man made fortifications, they had a funnel going directly to them, thus forcing the Darkspawn to compress their lines and come at them from a more pointed direction. When Cailan charged, they moved out of that funnel and were thus pushed back by the superior numbers and ferocity of the darkspawn.

Perhaps there was good reason for this - after all, the Darkspawn are renowned for tunneling and maybe in an earlier battle the staggered line came under attack when the Darkspawn burst from beneath their feet. But from our understanding, Cailan desired this glorious charge, a battle the likes of which the world had not seen in four hundred years. He wanted a repeat of Ayesleigh. That glorious charge cost him the advantage and in the end made any charge Loghain might have made only a delay of the inevitable crushing defeat.

Glorious.

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 31 janvier 2011 - 09:10 .

[Elhanan]

I am guessing Uldred had something to do with the lack of Mage tactics and involvement with the allied Chantry forces.

But I blame Loghain; his plans, and Bhelen is still too far away. Or was he? *smiles*