128 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

slimgrin wrote...
It's hard to dismiss this argument, but if I had to, I'd say:

A. It really is a rush job and they are just doing a media blitz

or

B. they are marketing the game like most companies do now.


B seems more likely given Bioware's pedigree. It's not uncommon these days for theatrical vids and internet catch phrases to precede actual gameplay by months. I don't' like it either. Until I see official gameplay I'm not truly informed.

Right- I understand they maybe want to sort of plant the seed in people's heads that "Hey, Dragon Age 2 is coming out next March!" But honestly, if your marketing message this early on is to try and get Joe Bro Gamer to remember that when you've got Black Ops and Christmas stuff coming out and then the glut of every other game coming out early next year, I think you're wasting your time. You'd be better off detailing certain things like Blizzard or CD Projekt does in some measure of detail to the people actually paying attention.

I'm just weary because the last multiplatform PC port BioWare handled themselves was ME2 - and that was not a good PC port. And they never showed any PC footage until a couple weeks before launch. I doubt they'd do that again, and I understand their desire to showcase the consoles for DA2, but when you hear absolutely nothing or see absolutely nothing about the PC version, that makes you wonder.

[Mike Laidlaw]

TaHol wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

There will be lots of glowing things for the warrior and rogue.

And after reading this I have a feeling I have to go and cancel my (already paid) pre-order. I thought they can't be so stupid they still keep that sickening effect-nonsense going on. But looks like it is concidered to look mighty. *enter lots of bad language here* I will not be able to play the game if it is filled with floating and moving and glowing effects. There is no Personal Annoyance Remover to take care of them. I hope people responsible for visual effects, or their boss who orders them to use such crap, will get a migraine too. Bad one. Would serve them right. End of story.

Well, take heart, since we're actively suppressing the visual effects of spells and so on outside of combat. Meaning you can explore and talk to people without looking like a disco ball.

Huzzah!

[Mike Laidlaw]

Brockololly wrote...

Thats what I've been saying like a broken record for months, buddy. Just like the ones they did for Origins back in October 2008 when Origins was slated to come out in March 2009.

And I keep saying that you'll get one. Asking for it four times a day doesn't speed it up.

Folks, I am not unaware that you want to see gameplay. If I were in your shoes, I would be asking for the same thing. The reason you have not seen a detailed, narrated playthrough is because there is an order in which these things proceed. The first thing we wanted to roll out was some in-game footage cut together into an exciting trailer, which was rise to power. Why? It clearly demonstrates a number of improvements on both a visual and gameplay front.

Later, then, comes more detailed information on gameplay, and digging deep into stuff like inventory (which just happened). I know that some of you want that stuff first, and instantly, but there are a number of people out there that are not, in fact, excited by +2 fire damage.  I am. You probably are, but not everyone.

But I want to show you how there's still a crap-ton of Origins in DA II as much as you want to see it. I will beg for your patience: It's coming.

[My Mistake]

lol i like how people parade on forums saying they are canceling their preorders,

[Fraevar]

Hey everyone,

  Let's try and calm down as we're starting to go in circles here. No one is denying that the console version of DA:O was crude - I have seen it myself when I was visiting a friend and the first words out of my mouth after he'd played for 5 minutes were: "Trade it in and buy the PC version since you have a good laptop." So yes, it needs work and it makes sense that BioWare wants to ensure that no one takes the console combat in DA:O as a given in DAII.

  That being said, I think some people here are missing the beat when they say that these changes have to be made in order for the game to be successful. I would argue that it depends on where you are looking. The Xbox 360 is very dominant in the United States and United Kingdom, but most of Continental Europe is PS3 land, as far as console gaming goes, and in countries like Germany or the Scandinavian nations, the PC is still the dominating platform. But this is also not to the point - the point is that PC gamers are afraid that their version will now come with artificial restrictions and a lack of optimization on their platform.

  And after ME2 I would say it is a valid concern. ME2 was lacking several features that are staples of PC games and have been for nearly 20 years - it lacked hotkeys, it forced the player to use a single button for all interactions, the controls felt very clunky on a mouse and keyboad and it lacked proper support for more powerful PC hardware and monitors because it lacked high-resolution textures, since BioWare deemed the 360 textures "good enough". There is a track record here, so I completely understand why PC gamers are nervous, and while the texture issue might not seem bad to us, when we sit well back from our TV's and play, you really do notice the low resolution when you're sitting close to the PC screen.

  What makes a good console game does not necessarily make a good computer game, and I just in general would really wish that developers would remember this lesson, rather than forcing a "one size fits all" approach that rarely takes full advantage of any platform on us. Take the extra time, and do the work to customize and distinguish your various builds, devs. Your fanbase will love you for it.

[slimgrin]

Brockololly wrote...

I'm just weary because the last multiplatform PC port BioWare handled themselves was ME2 - and that was not a good PC port. And they never showed any PC footage until a couple weeks before launch. I doubt they'd do that again, and I understand their desire to showcase the consoles for DA2, but when you hear absolutely nothing or see absolutely nothing about the PC version, that makes you wonder.

ME2 was not a good pc port, quite limited in fact. SF4 had more graphical and hud options - way more options all around - and that was a bonafide console game to start with. It also runs better than any game I own on my pc, and this is Crapcom we're talking about. 

ME1 did it much better, fleshing out all the great things a pc port should have, and amazingly enough it was outsourced.

I have no reason to complain now, as Laidlaw has patiently detailed some very encouraging info. But if this game is a yet another in a long list of lazy pc ports, the very stars will not escape my nerd rage.

Modifié par slimgrin, 07 novembre 2010 - 08:30 .

[Brockololly]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

And I keep saying that you'll get one. Asking for it four times a day doesn't speed it up.

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Folks, I am not unaware that you want to see gameplay.

PC gameplay, mind you.

[ENolan]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

TaHol wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

There will be lots of glowing things for the warrior and rogue.

And after reading this I have a feeling I have to go and cancel my (already paid) pre-order. I thought they can't be so stupid they still keep that sickening effect-nonsense going on. But looks like it is concidered to look mighty. *enter lots of bad language here* I will not be able to play the game if it is filled with floating and moving and glowing effects. There is no Personal Annoyance Remover to take care of them. I hope people responsible for visual effects, or their boss who orders them to use such crap, will get a migraine too. Bad one. Would serve them right. End of story.

Well, take heart, since we're actively suppressing the visual effects of spells and so on outside of combat. Meaning you can explore and talk to people without looking like a disco ball.

Huzzah!

So I'm guessing disco music accompanying that glow will not be around this time either. Now I'm calling Bravo Sierra.

[Apollo Starflare]

Ah the BCF to the rescue once again. I give it a day and a half before another similar thread appears and it all begins again. This forum is like groundhog day sometimes.



I think there have been misteps in the marketing of DA2 so far, but there are misteps in the marketing of so many things thesedays and what is often seen as a mistep to one person (such as myself or you, or that strange person looking at you through the window wearing a a viking helmet) can be an eye catching and informative trailer/poster/giant inflatable sword to another.



Considering how against fast paced action many people unhappy with what they are seeing are I'm repeatedly startled by the lack of patience I see. I feel like I have a pretty good idea of what DA2 is about and how it'll play personally, but at the rate Bioware are releasing new info those of you who still feel out of the loop should have plenty more stuff to mull over by the time the pre-order end date rolls around.

[Ulous]

Let us just pray that all the whiners don't buy/play DA2, then we wont have to listen to them whining about DA(O)3 if/when it is announced, I will also look forward to knowing they are reading peoples threads about how great DA2 is, knowing they are not enjoying the game because they were to elitist and stubborn to buy it.



P.S. Baldur's Gate is that way <-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Sylvius the Mad]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Well, take heart, since we're actively suppressing the visual effects of spells and so on outside of combat. Meaning you can explore and talk to people without looking like a disco ball.

How about inside combat?  They're no less silly just because some metaphysical state of "combat" has been reached.

[MerinTB]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Well, take heart, since we're actively suppressing the visual effects of spells and so on outside of combat. Meaning you can explore and talk to people without looking like a disco ball.

Huzzah!

Yay for another piece of excellent news.

My scale is still heavily unmoving from where it is, but each little bit will eventually help (if enough is added to the other side.)

[Master Shiori]

Ulous wrote...

Let us just pray that all the whiners don't buy/play DA2, then we wont have to listen to them whining about DA(O)3 if/when it is announced, I will also look forward to knowing they are reading peoples threads about how great DA2 is, knowing they are not enjoying the game because they were to elitist and stubborn to buy it.

P.S. Baldur's Gate is that way

Let us not since I honestly doubt anyone at Bioware wants to drive potential buyers away from their games. We still have a long way to go until the release date and there's plenty of info that's bound to come. Once it's released some people might realize that DA2 isn't all that different game from DA:O and actualy buy it.

Regadless of what happens, telling your consumer to pack up and leave because you can't stand him voicing his concerns is one sure way of shooting yourself in the foot.

[Tsuga C]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Well, take heart, since we're actively suppressing the visual effects of spells and so on outside of combat. Meaning you can explore and talk to people without looking like a disco ball.

How about inside combat?  They're no less silly just because some metaphysical state of "combat" has been reached.

I second this notion.  Excessive flash 'n' trashiness aggravates rather than impresses me.  It's like you're trying to hide something by distracting the player with shallow glitz.

[In Exile]

StingingVelvet wrote...
I don't have the opinion that anything with stats can be called an RPG, no.  The core gameplay of ME2 is shooting dudes and shooting dudes is based on reflexes, not dice rolls.  That's a shooter.  It has a lot of dialogue and you can choose to be an **** or not, but none of it effects the gameplay much.

Neither does it in DA:O. Your dialogue actually never affects gameplay.

I can tell the Illusive Man to screw off but next mission I'll still be doing what he tells me because the alternative is no more game, so the dialogue is not really RPG dialogue with choice ane consequence.  The world isn't really open, it's quite linear, you just get to choose which level to play when like a Megaman game.

That's not really a criticism of ME2's choices, given that I could as easily complain I can't tell Alistair and Duncan to shove pipes up their arses. You have to fight the blight, and you have to do it with Alistair.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Thats what I've been saying like a broken record for months, buddy. Just like the ones they did for Origins back in October 2008 when Origins was slated to come out in March 2009.

And I keep saying that you'll get one. Asking for it four times a day doesn't speed it up.

Folks, I am not unaware that you want to see gameplay. If I were in your shoes, I would be asking for the same thing. The reason you have not seen a detailed, narrated playthrough is because there is an order in which these things proceed. The first thing we wanted to roll out was some in-game footage cut together into an exciting trailer, which was rise to power. Why? It clearly demonstrates a number of improvements on both a visual and gameplay front.

Later, then, comes more detailed information on gameplay, and digging deep into stuff like inventory (which just happened). I know that some of you want that stuff first, and instantly, but there are a number of people out there that are not, in fact, excited by +2 fire damage.  I am. You probably are, but not everyone.

But I want to show you how there's still a crap-ton of Origins in DA II as much as you want to see it. I will beg for your patience: It's coming.

Man, Mike Laidlaw. You're WAY too nice. You should really cut loose and lay into the people who are getting uppity over this stuff. There's no excuse for even half of the rudeness I'm seeing on this forum.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 07 novembre 2010 - 08:57 .

[TheMufflon]

In Exile wrote...

Neither does it in DA:O. Your dialogue actually never affects gameplay.

The dialogue is gameplay.

[Sylvius the Mad]

TheMufflon wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Neither does it in DA:O. Your dialogue actually never affects gameplay.

The dialogue is gameplay.

So is the entire process of selecting actions within the game, which absolutely can be affected by the dialogue you've selected.

Suppose you didn't want to help someone, but you also didn't want to tell them you wouldn't help.  If the game only offered you two dialogue options (agreeing to help and refusing to help), that you chose to say you'd agree to help will drive future gameplay decisions (as you can't then openly not help without looking like a big lying liarpants).

In Exile's defintion of gameplay seems arbitrarily narrow.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 07 novembre 2010 - 09:02 .

[slimgrin]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

Man, Mike Laidlaw. You're WAY too nice. You should really cut loose and lay into someone for getting uppity over this stuff. There's no excuse for even half of the rudeness I'm seeing on this forum.

No he shouldn't, and he won't, because he's too professional. Besides, there's already a steady stream of volatile defenders of this game cutting loose for him.

Modifié par slimgrin, 07 novembre 2010 - 09:02 .

[Ulous]

Master Shiori wrote...



Regadless of what happens, telling your consumer to pack up and leave because you can't stand him voicing his concerns is one sure way of shooting yourself in the foot.

Of course you can if the concerns would be damaging to the "majority" of customers , this is indeed why they are changing things, because they realise that it is indeed the majority that want these changes, they know that games of all genres need to move and evolve with the times.

For every 1980's D&D rules set fan customer they lose, they gain another ten fresh and eager customers who realise that there is more to RPG's than just taking it in turns kicking each other in the bollocks, until the one with the smallest bollocks dies first.

Modifié par Ulous, 07 novembre 2010 - 09:07 .

[MerinTB]

Ulous wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
Regadless of what happens, telling your consumer to pack up and leave because you can't stand him voicing his concerns is one sure way of shooting yourself in the foot.

Of course you can if the concerns would be damaging to the "majority" of customers , this is indeed why they are changing things, because they realise that it is indeed the majority that want these changes, they know that games of all genres need to move and evolve with the times.

For every 1980's D&D rules set fan customer they lose, they gain another ten fresh and eager customers who realise that there is more to RPG's than just taking it in turns kicking each other in the bollocks, until the one with the smallest bollocks dies first.

Wow... yeah, you'll make friends fast here.

[The Masked Rog]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Well, take heart, since we're actively suppressing the visual effects of spells and so on outside of combat. Meaning you can explore and talk to people without looking like a disco ball.

How about inside combat?  They're no less silly just because some metaphysical state of "combat" has been reached.

Now that would be interesting. Characters auto activate their buffs when entering combat, deactivate when outside combat. And it makes sense, because nobody would like to walk around looking like a christmas tree.

[In Exile]

TheMufflon wrote...
The dialogue is gameplay.

No, dialogue is "story". It's the part of the portion of the game that mimics behaviour of the characters in the game as representative of human beings, instead of violating all known and accept laws of physics.

I do not count dialogue.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So is the entire process of selecting
actions within the game, which absolutely can be affected by the
dialogue you've selected.



Suppose you didn't want to help
someone, but you also didn't want to tell them you wouldn't help.  If
the game only offered you two dialogue options (agreeing to help and
refusing to help), that you chose to say you'd agree to help will drive
future gameplay decisions (as you can't then openly not help without
looking like a big lying liarpants).

Selecting actions within the game is not neccesarily gameplay. It can be any number of things, including tickering with the UI.

The choice as you describe above I consider "story".

At any rate, I actually disagree with the statement I made there. I do think that dialogue affects gameplay. But if one is going to argue that dialogue did not affect gameplay in ME2, then by that standard dialogue did not affect gameplay in DA:O.

In Exile's defintion of
gameplay seems arbitrarily narrow.

But your definition is vacuous. If gameplay is everything that happens within the game, then cannot apprehend anything.

[soteria]

StingingVelvet wrote...

My whole point was DON'T cluster people. Don't assume the combat of DA:O was generally hated on consoles, maybe a bunch of them liked the more tactical combat DA:O brought to their Xbox or PS3.

I have never heard someone who was familiar with both PC and console combat that actually thought console combat was great or even close to on par. In fact, my videos have gotten a lot of comments to the effect of, "WTF, PC users have it so easy." I don't doubt there are people out there who played DA:O on the console and genuinely loved it, but I'd call that "blissful ignorance" more than anything.