346 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Marionetten wrote...
And this is different from placing your area of effect spell to the left of the hurlock instead of on him how exactly?

Because the spell actually has an area of effect, I didn't use a Grenade as my example for that reason.  A better comparison would be casting a Firebolt in Oblivion a meter to the left of your target and expecting it to still hit because your skill is 100, or something.

Marionetten wrote...

I never argued that Fallout 3 didn't feature twitch elements. I argued that Fallout 3 operated on RPG mechanics and dice rolls. Which it does.

It's twitch with RPG elements.  That may seem pedantic, but it's not.  In a typical shooter, variation in weapon accuracy is modified by physics, typically.  Like bullets drop as they go through the air so as a sniper aiming at someone in the distance you might actually aim for the space above their head.  Or you might need to lead your targets if they're moving across your field of view.

In Fallout 3 and NV, variation in weapon accuracy comes from the RPG elements.  Yet in New Vegas I can have a Guns skill of 20 and efficiently snipe people with the scope because I'm patient and can aim.

Anyway, this is so off topic that the last word is yours.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 novembre 2010 - 05:31 .

[My Mistake]

dam the video spoiled the beginning, i was looking forward to having Carver in my party.

[upsettingshorts]

My Mistake wrote...

dam the video spoiled the beginning, i was looking forward to having Carver in my party.

Carver can survive.

[My Mistake]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

My Mistake wrote...

dam the video spoiled the beginning, i was looking forward to having Carver in my party.

Carver can survive.

cool now i feel better about this vid

[Khayness]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Carver can survive.

Mr. Gaider is far too evil overlordish to be trustworthy.

I'll believe it when I'll do it in 5 months.

[Schuback]

Male Hawke looks like a hobo during the close-up shot. And Cassandra looks like a highschool girl with the hair.

[FedericoV]

crimzontearz wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

-Semper- wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

Yep, the game has less need of pausing and it's more actiony, but the pause is still a nice and usefull feature.

and that's my biggest fear. i absolutely love micromanagement and constantly pausing my game, but only if it's needed. within the classical rpg this was essential and now it seems to be just a bonus without much sense.

Honestly, I like pausing/micro when it's rewarding, the result is fun and it does not kill the flow of the game (and the only games where pure pause and play gameplay has really worked so far are the IE games).

But for a pause & play system to work, you need a turn based system running underneath. If the actions of the party and the mobs are not synchronized, like DA:O... it slowly becomes a mess of pausing for trivial actions that kills the flow of the game and are not even rewarding most of the times (because of the lack of responsiveness pointed out by Laidlaw many times).

You lost time moving your rogue or your mage in the right position... only that all the time you have lost planning your actions is futile since the situation is completely changed and you need to react in real time. How many times have you meet a situation like that in DA:O? I face it many times so I really do not get all that talk about tactics in DA:O. At the end the only usefull tactics in DA:O were skill combos and they mostly reduced the combat to something very trivial.

So, my point in short: if there is not a turn system that rules the lenght of actions are if the actions of the party are not synchronized (I mean, like the IE games) then I prefer less pausing and less micromanagement.

not to mention pausing and issuing orders was often not working right because the game took too much time executing or plain did NOT execute

Yep, that's the responsiveness problem. And it was really ridiculous and painfull for 2H warriors. How many times their skill did come in to action when the combat was almost over or when the enemies have allready gone far away because of low aggro? And since the situation was completely changed, maybe you do not need anymore that 2H sweep you have planned so dearly but a sunder armour or a pommel strike. But it was too late...

And the most ridiculous thing was that the effect of 2H action still apllied even if the enemies were meters away... so you see a mob of darkspawn falling to the floor for a 2H sweep done (maybe) in a different room. LOL: that's tactical gameplay? Give me action any day of the year.

[upsettingshorts]

It's possible he survives and then leaves the party, and therefore the game, to go become a monk for all I know. I do suspect that if Mr. Gaider is being deliberately misleading, he's doing it by being technical.

"Carver can survive that part, sure. I never said that he doesn't get mauled by a Mabari two scenes later."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 novembre 2010 - 05:34 .

[Khayness]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It's possible he survives and then leaves the party, and therefore the game, to go become a monk for all I know. I do suspect that if Mr. Gaider is being deliberately misleading, he's doing it by being technical.

"Carver can survive that part, sure. I never said that he doesn't get mauled by a Mabari two scenes later."

Exactly.

I won't believe anything from the people who said Mass Effect 2 will feature mines with material income and made the Mhairi character introduction trailer.

[Aermas]

What was Barkspawn doing way from the Warden?

[Xeper84]

ErichHartmann wrote...


That's hardly true considering DAO is easy to begin with.  Also, play Demon Souls on the PS3 and tell me how far you get.   

I have ps3 and a pc and besides some sport games Demons Souls is the only game i can enjoy on my console... every other game i always feel like i'am not playing something. It's more like "if you want to win please press x" (best example A. Creed brr worst game i have ever played)

but thats off topic..

With all we know so far:
-less armor , no inventory for Npcs => less armor for PC ?
-Less spells
-more action in fights
-less skills
-because of that video we know that hit and run works even better
-enviroments looking unfinished

How can somebody think DA2 will have the same depth? I'am not a troll and loved DA:O but so far nothing i have read about DA2 was in any way a positive for me. it seems that it could be the same disappointment as ME2 was. I really had a hard time playing through Me2 it was so god damn boring for me.
they cut everything that i would integrate into a rpg out of the series because it was "not perfect"  in contrast to "perfecting" it.
For example: We will not be able to customize the armor of our group because they felt they had to many "standard" armor in DA:O. that is correct! But my solution would have been: create even more armor to have the chance to give them a thematic fitting armor. On the side note will we have enough armor to customize our PC?

[Marionetten]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Because the spell actually has an area of effect, I didn't use a Grenade as my example for that reason.  A better comparison would be casting a Firebolt in Oblivion a meter to the left of your target and expecting it to still hit because your skill is 100, or something.

A limited area of effect. It still requires you to aim it with some degree of precision. Certainly this falls in the area of twitch gameplay?

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It's twitch with RPG elements.  That may seem pedantic, but it's not. In a typical shooter, variation in weapon accuracy is modified by physics, typically.  Like bullets drop as they go through the air so as a sniper aiming at someone in the distance you might actually aim for the space above their head.  Or you might need to lead your targets if they're moving across your field of view.

In Fallout 3 and NV, variation in weapon accuracy comes from the RPG elements.  Yet in New Vegas I can have a Guns skill of 20 and efficiently snipe people with the scope because I'm patient and can aim.

It's not pedantic as much as completely irrelevant. We could argue all day if it's a twich with RPG elements or an RPG with twitch elements. The fact is that it features both like most RPGs nowadays. With 20 in guns you'd have problems sniping anything with the average sniper rifle due to the extreme amount of scope wobble. Not to mention the fact that your damage output is completely dependant on your statistics. This is not efficient.

[Reaverwind]

crimzontearz wrote...

not to mention pausing and issuing orders was often not working right because the game took too much time executing or plain did NOT execute

You ain't kidding. I can't tell you how many times I pulled out my hair because party members flat-out didn't do what they were told in DA:O.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 07 novembre 2010 - 05:42 .

[Schuback]

Aermas wrote...

What was Barkspawn doing way from the Warden?

It's just a different spelling but that's how the people of Kirkwall pronounce it. Anyway, darkspawns and barkspwans can practically turn up anywhere.

[crimzontearz]

Xeper84 wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...


That's hardly true considering DAO is easy to begin with.  Also, play Demon Souls on the PS3 and tell me how far you get.   

I have ps3 and a pc and besides some sport games Demons Souls is the only game i can enjoy on my console... every other game i always feel like i'am not playing something. It's more like "if you want to win please press x" (best example A. Creed brr worst game i have ever played)

but thats off topic..

With all we know so far:
-less armor , no inventory for Npcs => less armor for PC ?
-Less spells
-more action in fights
-less skills
-because of that video we know that hit and run works even better
-enviroments looking unfinished

How can somebody think DA2 will have the same depth? I'am not a troll and loved DA:O but so far nothing i have read about DA2 was in any way a positive for me. it seems that it could be the same disappointment as ME2 was. I really had a hard time playing through Me2 it was so god damn boring for me.
they cut everything that i would integrate into a rpg out of the series because it was "not perfect"  in contrast to "perfecting" it.
For example: We will not be able to customize the armor of our group because they felt they had to many "standard" armor in DA:O. that is correct! But my solution would have been: create even more armor to have the chance to give them a thematic fitting armor. On the side note will we have enough armor to customize our PC?

-Less Armor/Inventory: Remember PST? nuff said that is where the devs are going
-Less Spells: again..how many forcefields and paralisys spells were there in DAO almost always doing the SAME thing?
-More Action: Remember trying to intercept a single darkspawn rushing your mage with your DPS? Pause and play orders did not work very well in that case...hence the more responsive system..and you can STILL pause and play
-Less Skills: read above....how many force critical/AOE attacks does a 2 hander need?
-Hit and Run:.....uh....you could do it in DAO but aside from that the player was not even using spells but arcane bolt..what does that tell you?????
- Environments look unfinished.......because they ARE

[MIke_18]

Demon Souls is not a complex game. It's hard because you need good reflexes and once you get passed the trial and error process you can rush the game and beat it with ease in a very short time. Please don't tell me that it's complex. You want complexity play EvE online.

[FedericoV]

Xeper84 wrote...

With all we know so far:
-less armor , no inventory for Npcs => less armor for PC ?
-Less spells
-more action in fights
-less skills
-because of that video we know that hit and run works even better
-enviroments looking unfinished

-NPC have inventory (belts, rings and amulet). The armour and weapons are fixed graphically but you can customize them statistically with runes. The inventory for the PC is the same.

-Less Spell/Skills: true. But you can customize them so the final number will be similar. Having said that, the number of spell and skills in DA:O was ridiculous and most of them were redundant. So, I prefer the Occam's razor approach here. Less scope but more depth.

-More action: yes, but the gameplay is generally better for the consolle.

-Hit and runs: if you like cheesy tactics there is no rule system that will stop you from using them in a videogame. Don't blame the designer but the players.

-Environments: it is a 6 months old build but honestly I must say that while playing the demo they seem really better graphically that the leaked videos we see on youtube.

Modifié par FedericoV, 07 novembre 2010 - 05:46 .

[crimzontearz]

Reaverwind wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

not to mention pausing and issuing orders was often not working right because the game took too much time executing or plain did NOT execute

You ain't kidding. I can't tell you how many times I pulled out my hair because party members flat-out didn't do what they were told in DA:O.

battle ensues......

Pause

order Wynne to cast mana clash on the bloodmages

switch character

order Lelliana to use arrow of slaying on the vanguard coming to rush the group.....

unpause


Wynne casts glyph of repulsion on herself

Lelliana starts shooting arrow at the mages.....

ME: throws controller away

[Saibh]

Khayness wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Carver can survive.

Mr. Gaider is far too evil overlordish to be trustworthy.

I'll believe it when I'll do it in 5 months.

Possibly he doesn't stay in your party, but the Rise to Power trailer confirms he is there at least by the time you recruit Isabela.

[Reaverwind]

crimzontearz wrote...

Reaverwind wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

not to mention pausing and issuing orders was often not working right because the game took too much time executing or plain did NOT execute

You ain't kidding. I can't tell you how many times I pulled out my hair because party members flat-out didn't do what they were told in DA:O.

battle ensues......

Pause

order Wynne to cast mana clash on the bloodmages

switch character

order Lelliana to use arrow of slaying on the vanguard coming to rush the group.....

unpause


Wynne casts glyph of repulsion on herself

Lelliana starts shooting arrow at the mages.....

ME: throws controller away

I got one even better. Encounter in Alienage:

Pause.

Order Alistair to attack slavers on right. Order Zevran to attack slavers on left.

Select PC and unpause. Watch Alistair and Zevran run to PC.

ME: Why do I have a party again?

Modifié par Reaverwind, 07 novembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[Xeper84]

crimzontearz wrote...

-Less Armor/Inventory: Remember PST? nuff said that is where the devs are going
-Less Spells: again..how many forcefields and paralisys spells were there in DAO almost always doing the SAME thing?
-More Action: Remember trying to intercept a single darkspawn rushing your mage with your DPS? Pause and play orders did not work very well in that case...hence the more responsive system..and you can STILL pause and play
-Less Skills: read above....how many force critical/AOE attacks does a 2 hander need?
-Hit and Run:.....uh....you could do it in DAO but aside from that the player was not even using spells but arcane bolt..what does that tell you?????
- Environments look unfinished.......because they ARE

-Less spells: yea but so they should be creative and create more diversity. But they shouldn't cut the total amount (neverwinter nights 2 has a lot more and better magic system in my opinion)
-More action: no problem just stun him (with the right skill or spell). why pause when it's not needed?
-less skills: again skills in DA:O are not perfect but why not improve diversity why cut the total amount?
-hit and run: yea but know he can use the strongest AOE spells what does that tell YOU ?   . In my opinion they should make hit and run impossible and not improve it.
-enviroments: yes they really are...

[bri-zilla]

I think that you can hear Hawke's voice when he says, "Carver gave himself to save us." Listen very closely!

[Khayness]

Saibh wrote...

Possibly he doesn't stay in your party, but the Rise to Power trailer confirms he is there at least by the time you recruit Isabela.

All lies! The RTP trailer forgot to include that scene where Cassandra interrupts Varric's narration and reminds him that Carver is dead!

I got my tinfoil hat equipped all times.

[upsettingshorts]

My favorite was this happening constantly:

* Approach battle, no pause.
* See melee mobs approaching ranged characters
* Assign Alistair and Sten to intercept the melee mobs
* Watch Alistair and Sten approach melee mobs
* Melee mobs continue past them
* Watch Alistair and Sten chase melee mobs as they near ranged characters
* Melee mobs engage ranged characters, Alistair and Sten catch up

I eventually learned I had to use Taunt or just keep my melee toons close by and wait for the charge, but the idea that they simply couldn't physically intercept the enemy without looking like total "Duh, whar did he go?!" buffoons always annoyed the hell out of me.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 novembre 2010 - 05:56 .

[Saibh]

Khayness wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Possibly he doesn't stay in your party, but the Rise to Power trailer confirms he is there at least by the time you recruit Isabela.

All lies! The RTP trailer forgot to include that scene where Cassandra interrupts Varric's narration and reminds him that Carver is dead!

I got my tinfoil hat equipped all times.

Hopefully to your helmet slot.