346 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Tsuga C wrote...

What the Hell happened to having educated 26-35 year-olds at the target demographic?  From what I'm seeing this is designed to appeal to the zit-popping middle school crowd.   

Have you ever posted anything without calling people stupid? Get off your high horse, you're not superior to everybody else.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 novembre 2010 - 08:35 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

What the Hell happened to having educated 26-35 year-olds at the target demographic?  From what I'm seeing this is designed to appeal to the zit-popping middle school crowd.   

Have you ever posted anything without calling people stupid? Get off your high horse, you're not superior to everybody else.

I think his comment was fair, it seems that they are gearing DAL on facebook to this crowd.  So I have to agree with his opinion from the little that we know about Legends.   I had the same impression yesterday that Tsuga C had.  If I'm buying a M rated game, I want M rated content. 

[In Exile]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I think his comment was fair, it seems that they are gearing DAL on facebook to this crowd.  So I have to agree with his opinion from the little that we know about Legends.   I had the same impression yesterday that Tsuga C had.  If I'm buying a M rated game, I want M rated content. 

They could be dealing it to the 18-24 crowd, but more likely it's geared toward anyone who likes flash and substance.

[Dave of Canada]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I think his comment was fair, it seems that they are gearing DAL on facebook to this crowd.  So I have to agree with his opinion from the little that we know about Legends.   I had the same impression yesterday that Tsuga C had.

So that allows one to insult people? You can have a negative opinion without calling other people stupid or acting like you're the best thing since sliced bread. For example, I'll take Sylvius as somebody I can respect even though his opinions often tend to be opposite of mine.

This whole attitude about acting superior grates on my nerves.

If I'm buying a M rated game, I want M rated content.

Ratings mean nothing, many view pornography as immature but it's still rated 18+/21+ or whatever rating it has nowadays. Many games that cover mature topics are never even "mature", considering "mature" only rates the nudity / violence and not the topic of the game itself.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 novembre 2010 - 08:49 .

[Xeper84]

FedericoV wrote...

- Armour: the problem is not the number of armour variations. I would accept a small number of interesting armours if the customization system is rewarding and deep. We will have to play the game to see if the customization goes in the direction you mention but you have to admit that it was not even possible (or needed) in DA:O.

-Spells: it's your choice at the end. Do you prefer to be a jack of all trades? Or the master in few spells? DA:O has too many spells in my view, they were mostly redundant and the reduction of them will improove their tactical significanc e. You won't be able anymore to spam them anyway you like and that alone will balance the mage with the other classes and reduce the urge for potion spamming.

- Hit & Run: I'm all for preventing the most obvious possibility for cheesy tactics but what I'm saying is that the devs normally know the big picture better than us. So, maybe, what we've seen is allready the better possible configuration. And also consider that those scene are the first in the game so they should not feel punitive or too restriced.

-Armour: on pc on nightmare you really had to think about that stuff  especially against some of the bosses . the problem was that the choice was obvious but that was because there wasn't enough Armour variation. Only against the last bosses when you had most of the rare stuff it all began to get interesting. But that was too late. i agree on that. But just because you can modify the armour does not mean that you have more choices earlier. It only means you have less choice for appearance.
In DA:O i could develop the same character into different directions with another play through. Morrigan could be a fire mage on my first play and on the second more of a necromancer ( more fitting) and also i would love if she would look like the direction i choosed not like she looked in the beginning. And thats a point i will be missing.
I remember all those voices that applauded to the ME2 idea to cut out all those unecessary stupid random Armour and now we have two for each Character?

-spells: I think it was really not enough I'am used to systems like D&D and if you compare them than you realize how few Spells DA:O has. but i also missed the complexity of D&D. In D&D there was for example a poisoned fog(high lvl and high damage spell) and you could counter it with a wind blow, that normally was just a low lvl spell to knock over enemys. In DA:O you had some little effects like that. For example you could freeze somebody and than crack him with a warrior or the stone fist for a immediate kill. but it all was just damage related and not very creative.
I hoped for more diversity but also more Spells and more creative combination and counter effects. I can't see how it would be good to have less Spells. Also i really fear that upgrading one spell is just too powerfull so that having choosing many different spells is just not a good option. it would explain why whe only see him using the arcane spell in that video.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Dave of Canada wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I think his comment was fair, it seems that they are gearing DAL on facebook to this crowd.  So I have to agree with his opinion from the little that we know about Legends.   I had the same impression yesterday that Tsuga C had.

So that allows one to insult people? You can have a negative opinion without calling other people stupid or acting like you're the best thing since sliced bread. For example, I'll take Sylvius as somebody I can respect even though his opinions often tend to be opposite of mine.

This whole attitude about acting superior grates on my nerves.

If I'm buying a M rated game, I want M rated content.

Ratings mean nothing, many view pornography as immature but it's still rated 18+/21+ or whatever rating it has nowadays. Many games that cover mature topics are never even "mature", considering "mature" only rates the nudity / violence and not the topic of the game itself.

I disagree with you, he stated his opinion the same as you are doing.  He didn't call anyone stupid from my point of view.  He called EA./Bioware out on their marketing approach, not an individual.   He has the same concern that I have - are they going to start marketing DA to a younger crowd and what does this mean for future games and content?  If this is where they are headed will it ruin the game for the older game players.  It's a positive comment for older gamers.

As for rating, I think it matters to parents on the rating.  Since I'm an adult buying the game, and the rating is M, I do expect M rated content within the story and visuals.  So rating does matter to some individuals in deciding if they will purchase the game for their teenagers.  

Unless you mode the game you're not going to get the nudity,  just a covered up character love scene. 

Their new direction for the game playing to a younger crowd could be the very reason no new toolset for DA2 has been announced.   If they gear this toward a younger crowd it will ruin the game for me. 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 07 novembre 2010 - 09:19 .

[ibortolis]

animation looks amazing! I only wish that in the PC version we will be able to zoom out more...Please Bioware,bring back the tactical view camera...!!!!

[Dave of Canada]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

He didn't call anyone stupid from my point of view.

Calling people between 26-35 educated and then saying immediately afterwards it's for the "zit-popping middle school crowd" does tend to imply that the others are not educated, in addition to insulting everybody who approves (largely) of the game's position and development. This isn't the first time either.

He called EA./Bioware out on their marketing approach, not an individual.

He's not talking about marketing in his post, he's talking about the game itself. The game is apparently centered around zit-popping middle schoolers, not the "educated" people.

As for rating, I think it matters to parents on the rating.  Since I'm an adult buying the game, and the rating is M, I do expect M rated content within the story and visuals.  So rating does matter to some individuals in deciding if they will purchase the game for their teenagers. 

Though such games like Grand Theft Auto and Halo 3 are considered mature titles, it doesn't mean the content in the game is mature (in the non-rating sense). One person doesn't go "I'm an adult, thus I'll enjoy Halo 3 because it appeals to me as an adult.".

Content that appeals to an adult is not something that's on a label but something that one finds in the game itself, dozens of movies and television shows appeal to a younger audience but still attract an important message and it's content can be appreciate by an adult. Though we're going for the world first Bioware debate about what is mature and what isn't, so we'll drop it.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 novembre 2010 - 09:22 .

[Guertyras]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

What the Hell happened to having educated 26-35 year-olds at the target demographic?  From what I'm seeing this is designed to appeal to the zit-popping middle school crowd.   

Have you ever posted anything without calling people stupid? Get off your high horse, you're not superior to everybody else.

 He diddnt call anyone stupid he just said in a better english than i could they dont want to cater to our  musical tastes and its time for old timesr like us to change the station, or i could add swicth it off as theres not much offer. Luckily there was still new vegas released lately that still satisfy me . I am rather the bioware fanboy since i bought everything they made , but i am really not interested in what i see today.
I am reading some are already salivating at the idea to customize their lady hawke character well what to say..Childish gratuitous violence, manichean dialogue options according previews, ultra soft porn scenes err romance , sorry no  i am too old for this.

[Rawgrim]

The fight in the gameplay vid makes me think of a gameplay video I saw of Diablo III actually. Running back an forth, clicking like mad to cast as many spells as possible before the monsters gets too close to you. Maybe its just me though.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Dave of Canada wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

He didn't call anyone stupid from my point of view.

Calling people between 26-35 educated and then saying immediately afterwards it's for the "zit-popping middle school crowd" does tend to imply that the others are not educated, in addition to insulting everybody who approves (largely) of the game's position and development. This isn't the first time either.

He called EA./Bioware out on their marketing approach, not an individual.

He's not talking about marketing in his post, he's talking about the game itself. The game is apparently centered around zit-popping middle schoolers, not the "educated" people.

As for rating, I think it matters to parents on the rating.  Since I'm an adult buying the game, and the rating is M, I do expect M rated content within the story and visuals.  So rating does matter to some individuals in deciding if they will purchase the game for their teenagers. 

Though such games like Grand Theft Auto and Halo 3 are considered mature titles, it doesn't mean the content in the game is mature (in the non-rating sense). One person doesn't go "I'm an adult, thus I'll enjoy Halo 3 because it appeals to me as an adult.".

Content that appeals to an adult is not something that's on a label but something that one finds in the game itself, dozens of movies and television shows appeal to a younger audience but still attract an important message and it's content can be appreciate by an adult. Though we're going for the world first Bioware debate about what is mature and what isn't, so we'll drop it.

Hmmm, I seem to recall I wasn't fully educated during my early teen years still being in middle school vs a college graduate.  So yes, age does seem to matter and it does play to marketing and demographic group that you are targeting an audience for your product.  The original game was marketed to the 18 and over crowd.   Which begs the question,  are they gearing this game for future direction to the middle school age crowd?  If so, then it will likely ruin the game for mature players if this is the direction that they are going in.  This is all that T and I are saying. 

I never said that adults didn't like g rated games, nor did I imply one way or another.  I'm just saying as an adult buying a game that is M rated I expect the content in all areas to be more mature for a mature player of mature age.  Rating is just a guide line for parents in my opinion on any media, as an adult I don't need the rating.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 07 novembre 2010 - 09:52 .

[Pzykozis]

Don't undersand what all the fuss is about, that looked pretty good to me, exploitation of mechanics aside of course, it looked like it played the same as origins but.. just better.

[Rawgrim]

Didnt look like it played the same as origins to me. But there was clearly enough of Origins in it, to make me want to play it though. I am deffinatly buying the game, even though I don`t like all of the changes.

[In Exile]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
I never said that adults didn't like g rated games, nor did I imply one way or another.  I'm just saying as an adult buying a game that is M rated I expect the content in all areas to be more mature for a mature player of mature age.  Rating is just a guide line for parents in my opinion on any media, as an adult I don't need the rating.

This isn't the issue. The issue is the value judgement and the implication.

You are saying adult > middle schooler on education, and education is a measure of worth. In terms of that worth, adult > child. Whether you mean refined tastes or whatever, you think there is some kind of superiority attached to the adult.

Here is the insult: suppose someone who is an adult thinks this game is brilliant. What are you implying about them? That they are immature, and somehow less than you because of their taste.

That is the problem with your value judgement. It actively demeans not just the taste of the "middle schoolers" relative to the adult, but it demeans any adult that might like that feature.

So awesome for you that you feel that you're better than others based on the game you play.

[AtreiyaN7]

I know that it's naughty to watch, but I have to say that I enjoyed the mage animations as a once and future mage. Sidenote: I do think that perhaps Cassandra's eyes open a little bit too wide there - heh.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 07 novembre 2010 - 09:56 .

[Rawgrim]

Well...I am an adult, and I think of myself as immature for playing videogames sometimes. I took zero offence though. Didnt see it as an insult.

[Shiakazee]

Dave of Canada wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

He didn't call anyone stupid from my point of view.

Calling people between 26-35 educated and then saying immediately afterwards it's for the "zit-popping middle school crowd" does tend to imply that the others are not educated, in addition to insulting everybody who approves (largely) of the game's position and development. This isn't the first time either.

He called EA./Bioware out on their marketing approach, not an individual.

He's not talking about marketing in his post, he's talking about the game itself. The game is apparently centered around zit-popping middle schoolers, not the "educated" people.

As for rating, I think it matters to parents on the rating.  Since I'm an adult buying the game, and the rating is M, I do expect M rated content within the story and visuals.  So rating does matter to some individuals in deciding if they will purchase the game for their teenagers. 

Though such games like Grand Theft Auto and Halo 3 are considered mature titles, it doesn't mean the content in the game is mature (in the non-rating sense). One person doesn't go "I'm an adult, thus I'll enjoy Halo 3 because it appeals to me as an adult.".

Content that appeals to an adult is not something that's on a label but something that one finds in the game itself, dozens of movies and television shows appeal to a younger audience but still attract an important message and it's content can be appreciate by an adult. Though we're going for the world first Bioware debate about what is mature and what isn't, so we'll drop it.

dont feed the trolls dave:bandit:, but lets get back on topic. It looks like the player made a customized hawke, he looks good and different.  Everytime i make a warden in da:o they always ended up looking like greagor, the custom hawke looks unique.  Awesome.  

[RogueWriter3201]

Great Gameplay Video. Oh, those sneaky Europeans, good on 'em. As to what was shown? It just looks fantastic to me. It was awesome to get a real sense of the now somewhat free-flow combat system. For the Melee I would not go so far as to call what I saw, "Hack and Slash," rather, I would say it simply had a less restrictive style. Watching both the Sword swingers and Bethany the combat really reminded me of the Fable series. Though some would argue that those titles lacked significant substance with it's story and characters, the combat in Fable, whether you were Melee, Pistol, or Magic, was open and uncombersome. Someone with a blade could easily jump from target to target, never having to stay focused on one baddie while another was standing behind you jamming something sharp up your bum.

In Orgins, it was always frustrating to be locked on a Darkspawn or other enemy trying to kill 'em quick because there was some Rogue behind you back-stabbing to it's heart's content. Pause, unlock from your current target, switch to the Rogue, try to kill it before the mob you *were* beating on starts wailing on you again. Wash, rinse, repeat. Arg! I know the pause and play enthusiasts love that sort of thing, but, for consoles, that's just a nightmare. Thankfully, with what I saw in the Video, that problem has been taken care of in leaps and bounds. I especially loved seeing Bethany not only blast away with spells (which looked amazing) but use her staff to crack some skulls much like we saw Morrigan do in Blur's Trailer for DAO; something which, sadly, didn't make it into said game. Sorry, but the "Pew Pew'ing" from the Mage Staves was just...blagh. Let my Hero hit something that gets to close, then blast 'em back with a spell. Looks like us Spell-Caster fanboy/girls are getting well taken care of this time around. Sweet. 

Also, the UI looks really good. I'm sure there are still some restrictions due to space on screen and so forth, but much like the combat it looks streamlined. As for the Animations? Frakking stellar. The combat animations were Epic, but we've seen alot of that thanks to Gamescon and other Expo vids. But, we fianlly got a much closer look at the facial animations. Strangely, Varric and Cassandra looked *better* in the video then they did in the Rise to Power trailer. An earlier build in that Trailer, maybe? Don't know, but, still, they looked gorgeously rendered. One character that really stuck out to me, and one I've been waiting to see up close with baited breath, was Aveline. She-Look-Gorgeous. Isabela may have the whole Sexy Lady of the Seven Seas thing going but Aveline looks like a Celtic Warrior Queen. Love the way she is Built, love her Hair, love her Armor. Maker, I hope she's a LI. Come on, Mike and David, *Please* confirm that already.

Overall, this was a real treat for not being an "Official" video. I do believe Mike when he says we're going to get that soon, but, in the meantime, this was a nice hold over. My thanks to the OP for posting. 
 

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

In Exile wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
I never said that adults didn't like g rated games, nor did I imply one way or another.  I'm just saying as an adult buying a game that is M rated I expect the content in all areas to be more mature for a mature player of mature age.  Rating is just a guide line for parents in my opinion on any media, as an adult I don't need the rating.

This isn't the issue. The issue is the value judgement and the implication.

You are saying adult > middle schooler on education, and education is a measure of worth. In terms of that worth, adult > child. Whether you mean refined tastes or whatever, you think there is some kind of superiority attached to the adult.

Here is the insult: suppose someone who is an adult thinks this game is brilliant. What are you implying about them? That they are immature, and somehow less than you because of their taste.

That is the problem with your value judgement. It actively demeans not just the taste of the "middle schoolers" relative to the adult, but it demeans any adult that might like that feature.

So awesome for you that you feel that you're better than others based on the game you play.

That is not what I mean and you know it, I'm speaking to maturity and a more matured rated game for adults, that was first marketed to 18 and over.   I'm addressing their marketing direction for the game.  I am an adult and I think the first game was Brilliant in all areas, so you're saying to me and all other adults who are into video gaming we're all immature?  What I'm saying with the middle school reference is that a person who is of middle school age, might or might not get the more mature content within the game.  

How is it an insult to question if they are taking this game more in the direction that middle schoolers would wish to play vs someone who is older in age playing the game?  Why is it an insult to question the possible future direction of a game that was first marketed to 18+  players? 

Everyone who bought the first game had to notice the M rating right off which meant the content within the game was marketed to the 18+ crowd.   Which means to me as a parent that I wouldn't have bought this game for a middle schooler anyway.  Don't they already have games targeted to their demographic?  

Why is my opinion any less of value than your opinion?  

Gaining education at any age is something everyone should strive for.  

Since I'm an adult and I've already invested alot of money into a game that I love, I sure as heck don't want to see it change direction and become targeted to a less mature/age group.  Defeats the purpose of  buying and playing a M rated game targeted to adults.  

[saeid]

Sorry console gamers but I don't give a **** about console version; Bioware please give us tactical camera ;
The real fans are the pc gamers.

Modifié par saeid, 07 novembre 2010 - 10:23 .

[Rawgrim]

I got both the xbox version of it, and the pc version. The PC version is ALOT better, and yes, the xbox version IS dumbed down. Its very noticable when you get to that bridge thingy near the sacred ashes, and need to move your character across the chasm. Still, since I am fed up with upgrading my PC for games and such, and had to push down the graphics alot in the game, I bought the xbox version. Finished the game on both platforms mind you. Most likely I will be buying the xbox version of DA2 as well. Purely because of my crappy PC.

[indio]

The engine looks fast and slick, and the mage does look better, although resembles someone on party drugs...*tick*.



ME2's strategic and tactical encounters ought to serve as the model for battle, imo. Running away from stuff or kiting in general is bad form for a designer to give necessity to. Hopefully it was the player in control, or lack thereof.

[Rawgrim]

In ME2 I mostly just hid behind cover and shot stuff. Fun as it was; It never gave me a feeling of being tactical though.

[Rzepik2]

I just saw the new gameplay.
Gods... those poses. Mage is using staff and running like some kind of anime hero.

It looks almost as terrible as this:

Modifié par Rzepik2, 07 novembre 2010 - 10:54 .

[indio]

Rawgrim wrote...

In ME2 I mostly just hid behind cover and shot stuff. Fun as it was; It never gave me a feeling of being tactical though.

You should try grabbing a shotgun and stepping out from behind the barrier. Well timed, with good cover from your team, nothing beats it.