346 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

Brockololly wrote...

The ogre ram/charge seemed slowed down a good deal

I always disliked how DAO ogres looked like linebackers when they charged. The new one seems more beastly, and like he's actually running, instead of being propelled by his sandals or something.

I can't stand the way Bethany is holding her staff when running- its goofy and reminds me of the Force Unleashed- she was even twirling it there for a bit

I agree. I haven't quite warmed up to the way they all hold their weapons. It looks...sort of pretentious. Like Bethany or rogue Hawke is trying to be cool.

The hurlock running animations look stangely synchronized- seriously, those guys remind me of old Total War clone soldier that move and look exactly the same

I didn't notice--I did notice that I liked how they all grouped together and swarmed you while actually looking like a hordee.

The animations still seem too fast, but then the fact that you seemingly spam the attacks so quickly doesn't help things- and this is even from the other video that was the "real" version: the stamina /mana barely dips below 50% ever. And there is no transition or preservation of momentum between attacks, which combined with how fast they're spamming them makes the whole thing come across as very herky jerky.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the player didn't use to many talents or skills. Mostly just melee'd a great deal. I noticed a few, but they seemed more intent on running away then spamming attacks. My impression is that the beginning with the horde is supposed to be relatively easy (whereas the exaggerated bit is supposed to teach you what buttons to hit and so on).

Paraphrase/Dialogue wheel- ok, maybe I'm dense but I have no clue what the sarcastic response with "There is no time to mourn" would mean- is he going to pull some smarmy one liner or what?

That's the point. He'll say something about needing to get a move on sarcastically or with a joke. Without me trying to have an ounce of funny, something like: "You think that maybe the darkspawn are charging over for a cup of tea?--we need to leave!" Works for me. Perhaps it'll be more apologetic than that, I don't know. It's the "neutral" line, so...

Cassandra- on the plus side, her black hair is great. On the down side, she still has buggy eyes. Seriously, if the new face morph system is supposed to allow better animation and higher fidelity faces, I'm not seeing it at all. This is one of my big concerns especially as you're presumably talking for a good chunk of the game.

I really hated how her eyebrows kept turning upwards every time she spoke. I remember a Zero Punctuation review mentioning the "BioWare face" and here it is at full glory--"Oh, wait, I'm supposed to talk? Uh..." *looks concerned* *says line* *normal face*

[upsettingshorts]

-Semper- wrote...

dunno how this will work with the shown fluid animation hack and slash while running. before you have to
position your comrades carefully because walking and hitting was seperated. now it seems like jumping into fights *click-click-clackaclick* fight's over. there is no need and time for positioning.

StingingVelvet wrote...

Right.

I mean technically Mass Effect 2 had a "pause and create tactics" button,but it was pointless.  Shoot stuff from cover, then it dies, that was the game... no tactics were needed.  I only paused to change guns.

Let me see if I follow:

So because DA:O was clumsy and unwieldy, you had to pause in order for combat to work the way you wanted it.

But now that DA:2 is fluid and quick, you won't pause even though you prefer it because it's not necessary?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 novembre 2010 - 03:55 .

[Sir JK]

-Semper- wrote...
dunno how this will work with the shown fluid animation hack and slash while running. before you have to position your comrades carefully because walking and hitting was seperated. now it seems like jumping into fights *click-click-clackaclick* fight's over. there is no need and time for positioning.

I feel that it's a bit prudent to point out what the player did indeed do this... he also lost two party members of three in what is the earliest area in the game with supposedly some of the easiest fights available. I think there's very much a need for thinking through positioning based on that.

[DarthCaine]

StingingVelvet wrote...

I mean technically Mass Effect 2 had a "pause and create tactics" button, but it was pointless.  Shoot stuff from cover, then it dies, that was the game... no tactics were needed.  I only paused to change guns.

Try playing on Insanity and see then if tactics are not needed (especially if you play as an Adept)

[upsettingshorts]

Sir JK wrote...
I feel that it's a bit prudent to point out what the player did indeed do this... he also lost two party members of three in what is the earliest area in the game with supposedly some of the easiest fights available. I think there's very much a need for thinking through positioning based on that.

Yep, the dude got wrecked.  He just left the non-Bethany toons to their own devices and they died as he fled.

[StingingVelvet]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

So because DA:O was clumsy and unwieldy, you had to pause in order for combat to work the way you wanted it.

But now that DA:2 is fluid and quick, you won't pause even though you prefer it because it's not necessary?

I didn't consider DA:O to be clumsy and unieldy what-so-ever.  Having to pause to set up tactics is not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

[StingingVelvet]

DarthCaine wrote...

Try playing on Insanity and see then if tactics are not needed (especially if you play as an Adept)

I haven't beaten it yet but I played on insanity to almost the end, right around the Reaper IFF mission.  It wasn't that hard and I still never paused.  Maybe mouse aim has something to do with that, not sure.  I played infiltrator.

[upsettingshorts]

StingingVelvet wrote...
I didn't consider DA:O to be clumsy and unieldy what-so-ever.  Having to pause to set up tactics is not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

So then why can't you pause and set up tactics in DA:2?  What has changed that makes that no longer viable?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 novembre 2010 - 03:59 .

[Anarya]

tmp7704 wrote...

Khayness wrote...

Edit: Cassandra's puppy eyes really damaged the image I've had of her so far.

Don't know if i'd call them puppy eyes but yes, thet do appear to be damaging her image...



Apostates? In my Kirkwall?
It's more likely than you think.

See, this is what I mean. All they have to do is bump up the cornea size slider and the bug eyes will be fixed. Because they still look buggy even when her eyebrows are not raised in surprise.

[-Semper-]

StingingVelvet wrote...

I mean technically Mass Effect 2 had a "pause and create tactics" button, but it was pointless.  Shoot stuff from cover, then it dies, that was the game... no tactics were needed.  I only paused to change guns.

and i believe that is exactly what will happen to da2. bioware will claim that there still is "pause and plan" gameplay available but that sad fact is, it is of no use. btw this has nothing to do with the exagerated gameplay but with the fact that walking and hitting isn't seperated (or seperated through a very tiny time frame).

[crimzontearz]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

So because DA:O was clumsy and unwieldy, you had to pause in order for combat to work the way you wanted it.

But now that DA:2 is fluid and quick, you won't pause even though you prefer it because it's not necessary?

I didn't consider DA:O to be clumsy and unieldy what-so-ever.  Having to pause to set up tactics is not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

yet...the game WAS unresponsive....I have proven it before

[Saibh]

-Semper- wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...

I mean technically Mass Effect 2 had a "pause and create tactics" button, but it was pointless.  Shoot stuff from cover, then it dies, that was the game... no tactics were needed.  I only paused to change guns.

and i believe that is exactly what will happen to da2. bioware will claim that there still is "pause and plan" gameplay available but that sad fact is, it is of no use. btw this has nothing to do with the exagerated gameplay but with the fact that walking and hitting isn't seperated (or seperated through a very tiny time frame).

Yet...that guy wouldn't pause and plan and did pretty terribly.

Also, ME2 isn't a pause-and-plan game--I didn't think ME1 was, either. Strategy isn't the same as tactics.

[upsettingshorts]

Saibh wrote...
Yet...that guy wouldn't pause and plan and did pretty terribly.

Also, ME2 isn't a pause-and-plan game--I didn't think ME1 was, either. Strategy isn't the same as tactics.

They weren't.  But players who either dislike shooter mechanics or are (by their admission) bad at them used the paused radial menu to aim their shots as well as use abilities and direct their squad.  

[andar91]

I really like the look of the animations, and I honestly don't think they're too fast. Although I kept wanting to yell at that guy playing Bethany when he was running from that crowd of darkspawn and the ogre, "Cast a fireball! Cast a fireball!" Yeesh. Autoattack is all fine and well, but she has spells for a reason.

[rexil]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...
I didn't consider DA:O to be clumsy and unieldy what-so-ever.  Having to pause to set up tactics is not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

So then why can't you pause and set up tactics in DA:2?  What has changed that makes that no longer viable?

I dunno but it fells like when you are done setting you tactics and unpause the game will just enter in a fast forward. 
I wish we had some PC gameplay showing how they kept the tactical part along with this faster gameplay.

[StingingVelvet]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...
I didn't consider DA:O to be clumsy and unieldy what-so-ever.  Having to pause to set up tactics is not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

So then why can't you pause and set up tactics in DA:2?  What has changed that makes that no longer viable?

Because it's not needed.  I'm not a gamer who uses tactics for the hell of it, if a game is simple and easy to play and doesn't need them then why would I sit back and make a grand strategy?  That makes no sense.  Yes, you COULD pause and think about the situation in ME2, but why would you?  "There's some bad dudes over there, you should shoot them from cover in between their shots."  I don't need to stop and plan for that, it's common sense and simple gameplay.

There is a mainstream gaming idea that everything should be simple to do.  I don't agree with that, I think complexity adds to a game, it doesn't detract from it.  If there were more tactics involved in ME2 which required pausing and planning that would be awesome, but there are not.  A pause button does not change that.

[-Semper-]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Let me see if I follow:

So because DA:O was clumsy and unwieldy, you had to pause in order for combat to work the way you wanted it.

But now that DA:2 is fluid and quick, you won't pause even though you prefer it because it's not necessary?

no -.-
before in a classical rpg there was a round to determine attacks and walking and so on. there was no room for dodging (just walking away) because the damage of an enemy was calculated although your pc already was 10 feet away, so you have to plan before going into fights. now it seems that you can dodge enemy's blows.

[upsettingshorts]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Because it's not needed.  I'm not a gamer who uses tactics for the hell of it, if a game is simple and easy to play and doesn't need them then why would I sit back and make a grand strategy?  That makes no sense.

So from the video you're assuming that gameplay is easy?  That's different.  I thought you simply were saying that because the unpaused speed is faster, pausing makes no sense, and that's what I didn't understand.

I don't think you can assume difficulty at all from this video, especially since it's an early level, and the guy - who didn't seem to be trying too hard - got his team killed.  Maybe you WILL need to pause?  Who is to say?

StingingVelvet wrote...

There is a mainstream gaming idea that everything should be simple to do.  I don't agree with that, I think complexity adds to a game, it doesn't detract from it.  If there were more tactics involved in ME2 which required pausing and planning that would be awesome, but there are not.  A pause button does not change that.

I agree, but I can't see how the video proves that the game will lack the depth and/or difficulty of DA:O you desire.  It's just got different animations.

-Semper- wrote...

there was no room for dodging (just walking away) because the damage of an enemy was calculated although your pc already was 10 feet away, so you have to plan before going into fights. now it seems that you can dodge enemy's blows.

You could kite in DA:O...

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 novembre 2010 - 04:06 .

[Brockololly]

Saibh wrote...
I agree. I haven't quite warmed up to the way they all hold their weapons. It looks...sort of pretentious. Like Bethany or rogue Hawke is trying to be cool.

Its like they're just trying to look cool and they're trying waaaaaay too hard. Its badass enough that you're wielding a mage staff or giant sword or dual daggers, you don't need to do a neurotic twitch dance to show off to the darkspawn.

Saibh wrote...

The hurlock running animations look stangely synchronized- seriously, those guys remind me of old Total War clone soldier that move and look exactly the same

I didn't notice--I did notice that I liked how they all grouped together and swarmed you while actually looking like a hordee.

Well yeah, when they're all bunched up, they're all holding their swords with one hand over their head wiggling it and lumbering over in lock step, sort of floating over the ground as they slide forth. The animation wouldn't be so bad if they all didn't share it or had some variety.

Saibh wrote.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the player didn't use to many talents or skills. Mostly just melee'd a great deal. I noticed a few, but they seemed more intent on running away then spamming attacks. My impression is that the beginning with the horde is supposed to be relatively easy (whereas the exaggerated bit is supposed to teach you what buttons to hit and so on).

Yeah, in this video they only seemingly used their basic mage attack. But even here, because they were firing that off so frequently, it looked very spammish and the animation got repetitive. ITs a nitpick , but even in the other "real" video from a couple days ago when the players were using abilities, their stamina/mana was almost always fully charged.

Saibh wrote...

Paraphrase/Dialogue wheel- ok, maybe I'm dense but I have no clue what the sarcastic response with "There is no time to mourn" would mean- is he going to pull some smarmy one liner or what?

That's the point. He'll say something about needing to get a move on sarcastically or with a joke. Without me trying to have an ounce of funny, something like: "You think that maybe the darkspawn are charging over for a cup of tea?--we need to leave!" Works for me. Perhaps it'll be more apologetic than that, I don't know. It's the "neutral" line, so...

Ok, but what I'm saying is I have no clue what he could say and thats a bad thing if I'm supposed to be playing as Hawke. Is he going to say something a bit insensitive and dickish  yet funny, since Carver just died and is laying there dead on the ground? Thats my issue it seems with the emotion icon is that there are varying levels of sarcasm or agressiveness, but its impossible to tell how far Hawke will go with any given response. I guess I'll just have to see it in action more...

Saibh wrote...
I really hated how her eyebrows kept turning upwards every time she spoke. I remember a Zero Punctuation review mentioning the "BioWare face" and here it is at full glory--"Oh, wait, I'm supposed to talk? Uh..." *looks concerned* *says line* *normal face*

Yes, the BioWare face- they do everything but move their face, hence they look like a robots stuck in the Uncanny Valley. But to me, the new faces look far worse at emoting realistically than even Origins due in part to their unrealistic facail features.

[Sir JK]

StingingVelvet wrote...Because it's not needed. 

Did you miss the part where the player lost 2/3 of his party because he did not use tactics and then had to very carefully kite the mobs? This in a demo (easy by default) featuring the earliest area of the game? By the looks of it tactics will be even more necessary now...

There is a mainstream gaming idea that everything should be simple to do.  I don't agree with that, I think complexity adds to a game, it doesn't detract from it.  If there were more tactics involved in ME2 which required pausing and planning that would be awesome, but there are not.  A pause button does not change that

The idea you're alluding to is the "simple to learn, difficult to master" idea. It's the defining principle of chess.

[-Semper-]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

You could kite in DA:O...

yes, but not as easily as in da2 - so it seems. i don't need a pause button if my mage can run away from a pack and shoot them to death. i just need a little room.

Sir JK wrote...

and then had to very carefully kite the mobs

carefully? every 4 year old kiddo could make those moves^^

Modifié par -Semper-, 07 novembre 2010 - 04:11 .

[upsettingshorts]

-Semper- wrote...

yes, but not as easily as in da2 - so it seems. i don't need a pause button if my mage can run away from a pack and shoot them to death. i just need a little room.

The player in the video did indeed kite very easily and get room for the mage.  Except that while he was running away, the rest of his team died.

Strikes me as a situation that calls for tactics.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 07 novembre 2010 - 04:11 .

[Saibh]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Because it's not needed.  I'm not a gamer who uses tactics for the hell of it, if a game is simple and easy to play and doesn't need them then why would I sit back and make a grand strategy?  That makes no sense.  Yes, you COULD pause and think about the situation in ME2, but why would you?  "There's some bad dudes over there, you should shoot them from cover in between their shots."  I don't need to stop and plan for that, it's common sense and simple gameplay.

I have a feeling you're acting like the futility of pausing and playing is detrimental to the series because of the use of "ME2", which is like a dirty word around these parts. I never recall having to pause and play in ME1, either, except to use talents since I had to pause the game to access them.

Again--that guy got didn't do that great, and demos are usually supposed to be pretty easy. I think this is why Priestly shuts down leaked gameplay threads--because they are indicative of what BioWare wants to show you.

There is a mainstream gaming idea that everything should be simple to do.  I don't agree with that, I think complexity adds to a game, it doesn't detract from it.  If there were more tactics involved in ME2 which required pausing and planning that would be awesome, but there are not.  A pause button does not change that.

But why do you assume tactics are the superior method? You're one of the few people who think so. I don't mean one of the few people on this forum, I mean everywhere. Let me tell you, tactics were made worse for me because of the slowness of it all. Enemies beat away at my  characters, and I had to try to shuffle Zevran in position to the back and move Alistair out the way who was in the middle of Shield Bashing  (hello, dying mage, I gave you a tactic, run over and obey now!). I couldn't get them to do what I wanted when I wanted them to do it. They all had to play shuffly musical chairs with each other.

It wasn't impossible. But it was annoying.

[Vankraft]

Sir JK wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...Because it's not needed. 

Did you miss the part where the player lost 2/3 of his party because he did not use tactics and then had to very carefully kite the mobs? This in a demo (easy by default) featuring the earliest area of the game? By the looks of it tactics will be even more necessary now...

I don't know if it was just the person playing the actual video game but I didn't see much with regards to tactics, it all looked very "hack'n'slash".

*Blah! edited for terrible forum posting skills*

Modifié par Vankraft, 07 novembre 2010 - 04:12 .

[Sir JK]

-Semper- wrote...

[

yes, but not as easily as in da2 - so it seems.

You clealry did not see me first time I met the ogre in the tower in Ishal:

"Argh! The ogre killed my tank and is going after me!" *Runs in circles while the mage and archers peppers the ogre till death*