276 réponses à ce sujet

[WuWeiWu]

JohnEpler wrote...

You know, I feel like I should set up a script that automatically posts this to threads with certain words in the title, but...

If you can't be civil to each other, don't post. Seriously. If all you're planning on doing is jumping down another poster's throat because they have an opinion you disagree with, just stay off the forums entirely.

I don't care if you love what we're doing or hate what we're doing, all I ask is that you treat each other with respect. If you can't manage that, then you aren't going to be welcome here.

One thing I think I should point out is that you can keep your respect for a person and still completely disagree with what they are saying. You can also hold absolutely no respect for what a person is saying (if it is illogical, unreasonable, or based off of factually misinformed preconceptions) and still keep the basic civility and respect that all human beings deserve*.

What needs to happen here is all of the things that are said on these forums that are unreasonable, illogical, or based off of factual misinformation should immediately be shut down with a post by a Moderator - not locked, but refuted. Reinventing the wheel every thread is tiresome.

Perhaps, Mr. Epler, make a sticky at the top of the forum with what the Developer team would like the forum-goers to know as confirmed (I guess SirOccam does this), and a separate sticky** filled with things that have been promulgated on the forums that are untrue or... well... stupid. If those two stickies were to exist, the Moderators would be able to lock threads like the ones you'd make that script for, without getting heat for, "BIOWARES DON'T LISTEN TO NO CRITICISM CUZ THEY LOCK MAH POST".  A bit of work for the Mods/Devs, but I feel like if that were around the number of degenerate threads would decrease.


























*Most human beings, I should addend. I can think of a very specific and few subset of people that deserve neither. I haven't found a person belong to that subset on this forum, if you're wondering.

**Not the WHAT WE KNOW, created by a community member, but something with specific oft-brought up issues that are either miss the mark or are completely unreasonable.

[Brockololly]

filaminstrel wrote...

The Lion King was a great movie and that scene was great, don't know what you guys are talking about.

I'll just wait for the scene when its a nice quiet dialogue then we'll get some barf bag inducing dolly zoom and shake my fist in the general direction of Epler.

And yes, the Lion King is fantastic- and BioWare should totally get Jeremy Irons (Scar) in one of their games.

[Revan312]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TeenZombie's post fails to reach the obvious conclusion. The features Bioware believes were core to DA:O are not the same as the ones TeenZombie thought they were endorsing.

That doesn't make those preferences invalid. Not in the least.  Nor is the resulting disappointment with DA:2's development indefensible. 

However, what it does do is make the argument that Bioware is going back on some understood promise of support and/or intentionally abandoning them specious, it doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of critical thinking.

Critical thinking aside, the majority of people get used to something and don't like to see, for the most part, radical changes being made, that's a fact. Now whether this will impact enjoyment of the finished product after having hands on time is irrelevent, what matters at this point is waylaying fears and promoting the good aspects of the changes, which imo hasn't been sufficiently dealt with.

Now we're still 4 months out, but it's creeping up rather quickly, that's not a whole lot of time.. What's been released thus far isn't very significant or conclusive from even a simple gameplay standpoint, that is until they release some gameplay vids, which I hope come out before the January pre-order cutoff for "exclusive" items.

[tmp7704]

Revan312 wrote...

This board I will say however is rather civil though.. You guys should jump on some of the political forums floating around, now there's some vitriolic bile being spewed about,

I have nothing valuable to add, just wanted to note that your forum AV + context of this thread = total win

(also, i kinda like hitchcock zoom. if well and sparingly applied)

[Revan312]

tmp7704 wrote...
I have nothing valuable to add, just wanted to note that your forum AV + context of this thread = total win

(also, i kinda like hitchcock zoom. if well and sparingly applied)

Well as I said, I'm a self-professed hater to an extent so yes, I thought it was rather appropriete as well

I've been waiting for you to get a face beyond the blank no emotion default but now I'm used to it, lol, anytime I see it I think it's you

[Nefario]

JohnEpler wrote...
So my decision-making power is limited to 'hey guys, nobody in the forums likes the hitchcock zoom'.

I, for one, think hitchcock zooms are pretty bad-ass. Just saying.

[Davasar]

JohnEpler wrote...

To clarify this point a bit - we do read everything that people post, positive and negative. And while some points are so locked down that there's really nothing that'll change due to resources and time, some stuff -does- get adjusted because of fan reaction. We're not going to go in and start a massive overhaul of anything as a result of what we hear, but we do look to see if there's a way to please both groups without making some poor programmer work through Christmas.

The other thing is, we have a few people who spend a decent amount of time on the forums (occasionally, a little -too- much time, perhaps upsetting their significant others *cough*) and so we're pretty good at identifying what's a valid concern versus what's either a matter of opinion for a small percentage of our audience, or what's a result of not having enough information. And, of course, there are always future projects. Though opinions gain more weight when people have actually played the game, enough concern about something pre-release can have an effect on how we do things in whatever our next endeavour is.

Now, having said all this - we're a lot more likely to read someone's feedback when it's presented 'I don't like this change because of these reasons' than when it's presented 'Dragon Age 2? MORE LIKE GEARS OF AGE.. EFFECT. YEAH.'  Civility and common decency will get you everywhere in regards to us reading and possibly responding to your concerns. Throwing out vitriol and bile and talking about how much we, our game and the MLB all suck will quickly get you ignored or, if you start attacking other posters who have contrary opinions, banned.

So keep expressing your concerns! We like to read them, particularly when you back up why you're concerned. However, when you start in on the 'YOU GUYS ARE JERKS AND I HATE YOU' you're probably going to be ignored. Also, bear in mind that I am but a simple Cinematic Designer  So my decision-making power is limited to 'hey guys, nobody in the forums likes the hitchcock zoom'.

Or, when asking for a straight forward, non-politician styled answer on why many features enjoyed are being tossed, the response from some high ups on these forums is something like:

"Sorry, you as a customer are no longer important to us, F*** off"

This is perhaps said in a...politician styled way to make it nice, but that is the gist of it.


Many people are put off by that sort of answer, 'politely' said or not.   Though offensive if said openly, at least respect would be garnered by saying things as they really are.

Modifié par Davasar, 08 novembre 2010 - 06:51 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Dave of Canada wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

So my decision-making power is limited to 'hey guys, nobody in the forums likes the hitchcock zoom'.

Don't generalize, Epler!

... I like it. 

For the record, I'm a hitchcock film fan, so I may be the one other person who's cool with it (as long as it's not overused).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 08 novembre 2010 - 06:56 .

[Revan312]

stickmanhenry wrote...



i mean, does everyone really hate ALL of these changes?

i for one actually like the idea of having a voiced character among other things but right now it seems like the majority of people are furious with them and i am yet to see many comments actually praising some of the things bioware has done.

My main qualm with a voiced main character is game time, unless it's 5 disks it means the game will be significantly shorter, unless there's just a lot less dialogue in the game period, which would also be a step back imo. Though if the story is really well done and the re-playability is there then this isn't a concern, but that's also up in the air..



The changes aren't innately bad in nature, Bioware simply hasn't shown us that much of them are changes with positive benefits and or changes without negative impacts. Until Bioware shows us that locked on companion clothing, the convo wheel, game length, hack and slash concentration etc are positive benefits through examples then people will continue to be concerned as there's no assurance that it won't be detrimental..

[Addai]

stickmanhenry wrote...

i mean, does everyone really hate ALL of these changes?
i for one actually like the idea of having a voiced character among other things but right now it seems like the majority of people are furious with them and i am yet to see many comments actually praising some of the things bioware has done.

Oh, there are plenty of positive commenters.  I mean, I don't go into the fan threads but I'm assuming those are all positive.

As for what I've seen where I've thought "that's cool":  The Alistair and Nathaniel cameos.  I thought the camera work was good in the cutscene I saw.  The early lore releases they did were interesting.  I like the "new" Qunari- everything I've seen about the Qunari has been really interesting and creepy in a good way.  I also like femHawke's look.

Overall, the gameplay changes really worry me, though.  A lot of it seems like a step down from Origins and right now I plan to wait and get it on markdown.  If there's no toolset, I might not get it at all.  I think some of the strong reaction in the forums is that fans of DAO had expectations about the sequel which obviously BioWare did not share.

Modifié par Addai67, 08 novembre 2010 - 07:06 .

[upsettingshorts]

I only see a few Bioware employees tell an even fewer number of forum posters to get bent. And they always - in my view - have it coming.

The vast majority of input from Bioware is civil and informative, and the same can't be said for the rest of us here.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 novembre 2010 - 07:09 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

I go through 26 stages with 4 alternates and 3 parallel paths

[AlanC9]

Davasar wrote...
Or, when asking for a straight forward, non-politician styled answer on why many features enjoyed are being tossed, the response from some high ups on these forums is something like:

"Sorry, you as a customer are no longer important to us, F*** off"

This is perhaps said in a...politician styled way to make it nice, but that is the gist of it.


Many people are put off by that sort of answer, 'politely' said or not.   Though offensive if said openly, at least respect would be garnered by saying things as they really are.

So you don't want that said offensively, but you also don't want that said the way Bio's been saying it. Do you seriously think that there's a way to tell a customer he's no longer important that wouldn't put people off? If so, what is it?

Also, I'm not certain "no longer important" is quite correct. Maybe you never were important to them, and to the extent you were satisfied by their previous products it was an accident.

[hangmans tree]

I dont know 'bout grief but I know there are some changes I like. The main story for starters. While origins gave the illusion of difference, due origins, it fell short of my expectations. It almost had no meaning weather you were an elvish beggar or a dwarf princess. The main plot being a bit generic and overused wouldnt catch fire if not for exceptional dialogues, companions and voicecast.



The continuity is still there I think. In terms of the changes that will ripple throughout the Thedas. It goes from one point to another, global changes linked with each other in/by the backgroung.



Fleshing out the hero/ine can be beneficial, it worked fine for The Witcher, in which for some lack of altering the looks/gender was a drawback.



My concerns sway towards design. I dont like mangish infuences like huge swords and DMC.effects.

I'll hold my judgement untill I see or play the game. For now I'm interested, and far too addicted to rpg to dismiss the title upon the little real info we've been given.



BTW - OT, there's a dev diary 02 of The Witcher 2. They talk about TSOOD engine, tchnical stuff in the game. It's interesting.

[slimgrin]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I go through 26 stages with 4 alternates and 3 parallel paths

All in a different dimension.

[Amyntas]

The five stages of grief are a bs theory. It's non-falsifiable and doesn't describe what happens when you grief, it describes what happens when you disagree with a psychologist or psychiatrist or whatever ;-).



"You're in grief!". "No I'm not.". "AHA!". "What?". "This proves you're in grief!". "No it doesn't. Idiot...". "AHA!" etc. etc.

[Cutlasskiwi]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

So my decision-making power is limited to 'hey guys, nobody in the forums likes the hitchcock zoom'.

Don't generalize, Epler!

... I like it. 

For the record, I'm a hitchcock film fan, so I may be the one other person who's cool with it (as long as it's not overused).

You're not the only one. Nothing wrong wit throwing in a hitchcock zoom to keep you on your toes 

[Sakawatchi]

Wow, I'd forgotten why people were so adamant about a gameplay trailer before January 11th. The woe of someone who've already pre-ordered 


To add my voice, I've gone through the "hmmm, do I like this or not" steps (all of them), and about a month ago I decided to simply wait, see and have faith in Bioware (gotta have faith in something, I choose profit-seeking companies). And if DA2 sucks, well... wouldn't be the first time I bought a game I didn't like.

As you might notice I'm an eternal optimist and when I want to I always manage to see all the good things and ignore the bad ones. Which, unforunately, is the reason I decided to not enter the gaming industry. I'm just too positive

[upsettingshorts]

"You don't like my in-camera special effects? Deal with it.  I'm the goddamn hitchcock!"

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 novembre 2010 - 11:01 .

[twincast]

I don't really mind voiced PC's, but it results in less play time, which I detest. And the ability trees seem to be a clear step upward. But all the other changes (artstyle/combat/inventory) are non-WoW-handedness aside replacing something I love with something I hate. That said, if PC combat looks decent and areas take no influence from ME2's overhyped mini-hubs and abhorrent mission levels, I may get it. Though when I cannot say.

edit: Honestly, the only problem with the Warden is that his/her face never shows any reaction, not that we don't hear his/her lines.

Modifié par twincast, 08 novembre 2010 - 11:47 .