152 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

LordJared88 wrote...

Ridiculous. Just ridiculous.

We come on here to rant because they haven't given us an answer other than a "maybe", which doesn't count in my opinion. Just re-read what Mike said. It doesn't equate to yes and it doesn't equate to no. He says "we're looking into the possibility" which means maybe.

You know, if there IS no new toolset update, that means you will NOT be able to make mods. Many people don't realize this.

Do you remember what happened when Awakening came out? Sure! Our toolset could open our saved games etc from it, but could we do anything after that? No! Because all of the data had no way to be recognized as the toolset NEEDED an update to do that. Could we create worlds with the new monsters, weapons and spells? NO! We could not, because there was no way for the toolset to recognize those things.

The same thing will happen with DA2 if there is no update. Stop acting like we are good to go as the modding community when they temporarily shut us up until they can steal our money and leave us stranded thinking "Well damn.. I guess we can't make mods after all."

Many of us realize this. Many of us also do not care.

If you own a console game, a toolset has negative utility. It is a feature you can never use and resources you can never see.

If you own a PC, you may well not care. I certainly don't. I have one armour mod for Leliana to give her a unique appearance over the horrible DA:O female models (something being addressed in DA:2) I have a respec mod, because forced stat allocation sucks. If this is the case in DA2, then I will be dissapointed. They did address this in Awakening, though, so I hope it may be in DA2.

There may well not be a toolset. But not everyone will care. Just like few people cared with NWN.

[Marionetten]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Have you tried to lug around a dozen or so computers, keyboards and mouses? Compare that with lugging around the same amount of equipment with consoles and a garantee you that you would find the consoles are far easier. Trying to minimize work is a basic human instinct.

A dozen? Maybe at E3. Gamex didn't come anywhere near that number. A single PC station would have been plenty. And yes, I often go to LAN nights which involves lugging a fair amount of equipment. If I can do it I'm sure that EA can.

[Ulous]

Marionetten wrote...


A dozen? Maybe at E3. Gamex didn't come anywhere near that number. A single PC station would have been plenty. And yes, I often go to LAN nights which involves lugging a fair amount of equipment. If I can do it I'm sure that EA can.

Why not just be patient?

[errant_knight]

This article is old enough that some of this may have changed, but what really worried me about it when it was released was the attitude as much as specifics. Basically console is more important, so that's the main focus, and we don't want anything to be very hard. Disturbing, and it had the ring of utter truth. Doesn't mean it's still true, though, but I do  find my self repeatedly saying 'they wouldn't do that,'' only to find that they would.

The thing about the toolset it that, yes, there's a learning curve, but it's not hard to use once you get the gist of it, and that it's powerful enough to build and content that you want. It's actually very good.

[Saibh]

Marionetten wrote...

This makes precious little sense to me as a PC gamer. I'd have more problems adjusting to a controller.

At any rate, they managed to demo the PC version of Dragon Age: Origins just fine. Why not Dragon Age II?

I think PC gamers who don't know how to use the much simpler console controllers is a tiny niche compared the ones that do, and more to the point, the console gamers that won't be able to adapt quickly to a keyboard and mouse. Also how different PC controls can be from one game to another makes it difficult to adapt to a new game.

[Ulous]

errant_knight wrote...

This article is old enough that some of this may have changed, but what really worried me about it when it was released was the attitude as much as specifics. Basically console is more important, so that's the main focus, and we don't want anything to be very hard. Disturbing, and it had the ring of utter truth. Doesn't mean it's still true, though, but I do  find my self repeatedly saying 'they wouldn't do that,'' only to find that they would.

To be fair the only statement i've seen Bioware make with regard to the above is that they are developing the game for the best experience across all platforms, as opposed to DAO where they kind of left the console versions lacking in certain areas, the problem is that PC gamers usually see multi platform development as a middle finger being shown to them.

errant_knight wrote...
The thing about the toolset it that, yes, there's a learning curve, but it's not hard to use once you get the gist of it, and that it's powerful enough to build and content that you want. It's actually very good.

As somebody as already mentioned it is not a fundamental right to have access to the toolset, console gamers are not going to get or even need it, even though their copy of the game will be around £10 more expensive.

Modifié par Ulous, 13 novembre 2010 - 04:30 .

[Ziggeh]

cosgamer wrote...
 They don't like their games dumbed down, and this is what EA is talking about with DA 2.

Example?

[Ulous]

cosgamer wrote...


It's not that PC gamers don't know how to use the simpler controllers.  It's that they DO NOT WANT TO.  They don't like their games dumbed down, and this is what EA is talking about with DA 2.  The fact PC controls are complicated and vary make gaming much more interesting.

I am an ex-consoler who has moved on to PC because I prefer games that cost less yet look and play infinitely better.

Consoles are a rip-off.  A lot of people who use them say, well I can't afford to upgrade my PC and yet they've spent 200 to 300 on a console and are paying 5 to 15 more on each game they buy.  As a previous player who did that I have the right to say this:  that is insane.  You're paying a lot more for subpar products.

Why?

For one, I'm happy there are companies out there like CDProjekt who not only respect the genre of RPG but also respect the people who play them on PC.

I think EA should have and hopefully will learn a hard lesson: easier does not mean better, and varying from your original map often leads to deadends.

The problem is that you are trying to serve your opinions up as raw facts, which of course is the norm of forums I guess, you are also not helping PC gamers by showing yourself as the typical elitist stereotype.

It is my opinion that there is room for both consoles and PC's and I have chosen to play on both platforms, I also believe that DA2 will be a great game because in my opinion it is an RPG that is moving with the times.

[Lord Gremlin]

Well, audience IS on consoles. Fact. PS3+360 versions sold much more than PC version. I myself play on PS3 (PC is a secondary gaming platform for me). Ironically, judging by character creator my PC can run DAO just fine.

What I see here is that they finally fixing controls that were broken on consoles. Which is great.



As for toolset - if they can't get mods on any console (even on PS3 which has a history with mods) then why bother? As it stands mods are only for those who play on PC AND download mods. Which is a small, neglect-able fraction of total audience. I'd rather have them release a DLC with actually unique weapon and armor models.

[Brockololly]

Ulous wrote...
As somebody as already mentioned it is not a fundamental right to have access to the toolset, console gamers are not going to get or even need it, even though their copy of the game will be around £10 more expensive.

If you're saying the PC shouldn't get a toolset in part because the PC version is $10 less expensive, thats not the case anymore as EA jacked up the price of the PC version to $60.

[Lord Gremlin]

cosgamer wrote...

Whether or not a toolset is made available has no impact on the quality of DLCs.  As for the number of people who play and download mods the number being a small neglectable fraction of total audience can be argued.  The number of people modding directly reflects the quality of the game.

Emm. Let me explain. Updating toolset takes time and money. Some Bioware employees should actually put quite a bit of effort in it. And their limited time is better spent creating a DLC with unique gear models.
I've mentioned that number of people who use mods is neglectable because Bioware devs mentioned that on forums. Around 100000 users or something close to that.

It's like this, as far as I understand: about 3000000 (3 millions) people bought the game. 100000 (0,1 million) are users and creators of mods combined. And about 1000000 (1 million) or more haven't bought the game or bought it used because it had bad controls on consoles, ****ty graphics on 360 or large HDD install on PS3.

Modifié par Lord Gremlin, 13 novembre 2010 - 06:23 .

[Ziggeh]

cosgamer wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

cosgamer wrote...
 They don't like their games dumbed down, and this is what EA is talking about with DA 2.

Example?

Just read what's been officially released about the game.  If you can't see it, it will do me no good to list the examples here.

I really have read what has been released about the game, and so far, developer posts aside, it's all been marketing hype.

I'd also question the assertion that EA will be doing anything about the game, but not knowing Biowares development structure, I'd hesitate to make definitive statements.

[JrayM16]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

cosgamer wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

cosgamer wrote...
 They don't like their games dumbed down, and this is what EA is talking about with DA 2.

Example?

Just read what's been officially released about the game.  If you can't see it, it will do me no good to list the examples here.

I really have read what has been released about the game, and so far, developer posts aside, it's all been marketing hype.

I'd also question the assertion that EA will be doing anything about the game, but not knowing Biowares development structure, I'd hesitate to make definitive statements.

Agreed.  And heck, alot of the marketing hype ofr DA:O may have led some to think it was more casual or dumbed down, with all the "dark fantasy epic" and "new s***" trailer.  DA:O's marketing totally played up the blood and gore and sex aspects of the game.  Marketing is nothing to go by these days.

[Ulous]

Brockololly wrote...


If you're saying the PC shouldn't get a toolset in part because the PC version is $10 less expensive, thats not the case anymore as EA jacked up the price of the PC version to $60.

I was actually talking in Sterling to be fair, that aside I don't mind the PC version having a toolset, I just don't think people should be taking it for granted, it is a multi platform development which from what information i have absorbed, is to be as balanced across the platforms as much as possible, so one can't complain that the other is getting something they are not.

Of course their are always going to be some difference between the PC and the consoles versions, but the console gamers who bought and played DAO had genuine criticisms that were not an issue on the PC, from what I can tell Bioware are trying to avoid that situation from happening again.

[Saibh]

cosgamer wrote...

It's not that PC gamers don't know how to use the simpler controllers.  It's that they DO NOT WANT TO.  They don't like their games dumbed down, and this is what EA is talking about with DA 2.  The fact PC controls are complicated and vary make gaming much more interesting.

I am an ex-consoler who has moved on to PC because I prefer games that cost less yet look and play infinitely better.

Consoles are a rip-off.  A lot of people who use them say, well I can't afford to upgrade my PC and yet they've spent 200 to 300 on a console and are paying 5 to 15 more on each game they buy.  As a previous player who did that I have the right to say this:  that is insane.  You're paying a lot more for subpar products.

Why?

For one, I'm happy there are companies out there like CDProjekt who not only respect the genre of RPG but also respect the people who play them on PC.

I think EA should have and hopefully will learn a hard lesson: easier does not mean better, and varying from your original map often leads to deadends.

Yeah, you didn't read what I actually said. I'm talking about demos--console controllers are easier to pick up and understand quickly.

I think you just want a scapegoat with EA. You know the last game that was made without EA's influence started development half a decade ago? 2005. If BioWare didn't want to be sold, they wouldn't have sold themselves. EA wouldn't have bought BioWare to be anyone but BioWare. If you're going to blame someone for changes, blame BioWare.

Personally, I'm okay with the changes.

Can I also point out that you mean "PC gamers like me", not "PC gamers" in general? You don't speak for every gamer PC gamer out there.

I'm surprised you think The Witcher is somehow less action-oriented than what we know of DA2. I have heard nothing telling me that this isn't the case. That game is an action RPG.

The devs themselves believe that an action RPG is an RPG that puts the focus on combat over story, and they don't define for themselves the game an action RPG. But, using their definition, neither is DA2.

Modifié par Saibh, 13 novembre 2010 - 06:42 .

[Ziggeh]

JrayM16 wrote...

Agreed.  And heck, alot of the marketing hype ofr DA:O may have led some to think it was more casual or dumbed down, with all the "dark fantasy epic" and "new s***" trailer.  DA:O's marketing totally played up the blood and gore and sex aspects of the game.  Marketing is nothing to go by these days.

Imagine going onto a film forum and complaining that the latest hollywood blockbuster had better not consist of helicopters exploding in slow motion for 90 minutes.

This is what much of this forum reads like to me.

[ErichHartmann]

For one, I'm happy there are companies out there like CDProjekt who not only respect the genre of RPG but also respect the people who play them on PC.

The Witcher 2's revamped combat is designed for even action oriented gameplay than TW1 and CD Projekt is no longer exclusive to PCs. So I imagine TW2 will play great with a controller. But as a longtime PC gamer I still prefer a good mouse/keyboard. And debating the very nature of RPG is a circular argument with no end.

[Ziggeh]

ErichHartmann wrote...

And debating the very nature of RPG is a circular argument with no end.

I think it'd be worth having a decent crack, given that many (and almost all of the reasonable) of peoples concerns are based on it.