861 réponses à ce sujet

[Aermas]

Johnny took a turn in logic when it jumped from animals to humans. & I will almost never use flawed logic. I would say I would never but then it would be dealing with an absolute & that is a logical fallacy.

Modifié par Aermas, 09 novembre 2010 - 05:56 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

Something any regular on these forums is used to.

[AlanC9]

Dan-mac RI wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Dan-mac RI wrote...

I have never understood the issue with inventory. I can sort through 50 items to sell in a minute or so. Consoles had the junk list and the sell all junk thing. People might find that annoying, but I just accept that flaw so they won't do something stupid like they did with ME2.

Conversely, I've never understood why people like inventory.

It's something I have always enjoyed. Even if it's junk, it has value and I kind of enjoy selling crap so I can buy some special item. Streamlining inventory means streamlining or limiting the number of items. I like options, so I will deal with mountains of loot I don't use just so they will have more items and pieces of equipment. I'll take the good with the bad to avoid the really bad as in limited inventory.

Well, in the end in just comes down to liking something.... or in my case, being indifferent to it. I'm sure we both understand each other's taste on a superficial level.

[Aumata]

Is there a middle ground here, because I am sure I fit that place.

[AdamNW]

Aumata wrote...

Is there a middle ground here, because I am sure I fit that place.

We call it the Area of Logic.

[Aermas]

AdamNW wrote...

Aumata wrote...

Is there a middle ground here, because I am sure I fit that place.

We call it the Area of Logic.

Or we can logically showcase our concerns without being attacked by those that do not have those same concerns but unreasonable people won't let us.

[Stick668]

"Why not?"



Meaningful upgrades > inventory shuffle timesink.

Distinct looks > umpteen generic outfits that never get used.

Spending more of the time playing > doing clicky post-battle chores.



... as I'm sure others have said already. Carry on.

[Yrkoon]

Stick668 wrote...
Spending more of the time playing > doing clicky post-battle chores.

.

Clicky post-battle chores?  You mean looting treasure off the monsters  you just killed?

Right.  Lets get rid of that.  It's only one of the most  time-honored and cherished aspects of fantasy role playing.... going all the way back to pre-80s Dungeons and Dragons times, but hey, nothing should get in the way of  "artistic experimentation!" or whatever the catch-phrase is these days

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 novembre 2010 - 06:43 .

[Yrkoon]

Aermas wrote...

Johnny took a turn in logic when it jumped from animals to humans. & I will almost never use flawed logic. I would say I would never but then it would be dealing with an absolute & that is a logical fallacy.

Yep.  And as my grandaddy used to say:  All absolute statements are false.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 novembre 2010 - 06:41 .

[upsettingshorts]

Yrkoon wrote...

Right.  Lets get rid of that.  It's only one of the most  time-honored

So far so good.

Yrkoon wrote...

and cherished

I've been playing RPGs for a long time, and the fact that adventurers make their money from corpse scavenging, grave robbing, and theft - even the supposedly good ones - definitely qualified for the label of tedious from where I sit. 

I'm sure lots of people liked it.  I'm also sure lots of people would be glad if it disappeared.  I'm sure there's an even larger group of people that's indifferent.  There is no grand unified theory of what features CRPG is supposed to have.

Yrkoon wrote...

aspects of fantasy role playing.... going all the way back to pre-80s Dungeons and Dragons era, but hey, nothing should get in the way of  "artistic experimentation!" or whatever the catch-phrase is these days

Certainly not "well, that's the way we've always done it." 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 06:49 .

[Aermas]

Would you re-sculpt Mt Rushmore? If it isn't broke don't fix it.

[Leonia]

Yrkoon wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Johnny took a turn in logic when it jumped from animals to humans. & I will almost never use flawed logic. I would say I would never but then it would be dealing with an absolute & that is a logical fallacy.

Yep.  And as my grandaddy used to say:  All absolute statements are false.

Only a Sith deals in..

So. Yeah. I'm a big fan of less inventory management mini-games and more adventuring! Loot what you need and move on to the good stuff. I hate feeling like a pack mule all the time, "Just need to dump this loot off at the next vendor then we can move on with the story and killing of mobs!"

[upsettingshorts]

Aermas wrote...

Would you re-sculpt Mt Rushmore? If it isn't broke don't fix it.

Deceptively good example, since the thing was left mostly unfinished - would it be worth finishing given its state is so iconic?  Still, it's a distraction from the point - tradition in of itself isn't a terribly compelling argument.

What is good about the old system?  What about it do you like?  What parts of it were fun?  

What are the potential benefits of (new system)? What do we sacrifice to implement it?  Can it be fun?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 06:51 .

[Sigil_Beguiler123]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I've been playing RPGs for a long time, and the fact that adventurers make their money from corpse scavenging, grave robbing, and theft - even the supposedly good ones - definitely qualified for the label of tedious. 

For me the tedious aspect, or to be more precise the aspect I always found silly, odd, etc. was the "guy walks out of a dungeon with 50 swords to sale." I be much more interested in a focus on small items of signifigant value instead of lots of items of little value. Or even dare I say a more limited inventory so one really needs to decide what to take with them/loot to pick up when exploring. With them having a larger stash back at Kirkwall for instance.

It be for me a interesting additional tactical, strategic aspect to have more limited inventory size on the actual character. Plus on the aspect of loot I would love to see corpse loot get downplayed and exploratory loot get more exposure. 

Modifié par Sigil_Beguiler123, 09 novembre 2010 - 06:53 .

[Yrkoon]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

aspects of fantasy role playing.... going all the way back to pre-80s Dungeons and Dragons era, but hey, nothing should get in the way of  "artistic experimentation!" or whatever the catch-phrase is these days

Certainly not "well, that's the way we've always done it." 

I think they should do further experimentation on RPGS. I got an Idea. Lets do an RPG. But lets experiment. lets make this RPG different. This time around, Lets cut out the role playing aspect of it. (because, you know, that's the way we've always done it before. we wanna be different this time) So lets put out an RPG with no RP elements.

It'll be awesome. People will applaud us for our Artistic vision. And we can just ignore those traditionalist stick-in-the-muds who are so scared of Change.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 novembre 2010 - 06:58 .

[upsettingshorts]

Yrkoon wrote...

I think they should do further experimentation on RPGS. I got an Idea. Lets do an RPG. But lets experiment. lets make this RPG different. This time around, Lets cut out the role playing aspect of it. (because, you know, that's the way we've always done it before. we wanna be different this time) So lets put out an RPG with no RP elements.

It'll be awesome. People will applaud us for our Artistic vision. And we can just ignore those traditionalist stick-in-the-muds who are so scared of Change.

Your reductionist argument to the absurd is even less compelling than your appeal to tradition. 

What was so good about post battle inventory management?  What is so bad about removing it?  How does it effect gameplay?  What are the consequences of such a design decision?  What are the intended benefits?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 06:59 .

[Stick668]

Yrkoon sarcastroed...

Lets get rid of that. nothing should get in the way of  "artistic experimentation!"

The practice of minimizing redundancies is a time-honoured part of the creative toolbox in any medium.

Not an experimental technique.

[Dave of Canada]

Yrkoon wrote...

It'll be awesome. People will applaud us for our Artistic vision. And we can just ignore those traditionalist stick-in-the-muds who are so scared of Change.

Well, if you want to be sarcastic and silly, let's go back to the source of role-playing games. Let's go to D&D! Me and my friends team up together and decide to play a game, I decide to myself that I'm going to wear nothing but my small clothes!

Hey, Thomas! How dare you wear those clothes! Take them off! What? You mean that I'm not allowed to customize our party further than my own character?

DAMN YOU, NON-RPG D&D!

*rage quit*

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:01 .

[Sir JK]

I just want to chip in ona small side-point about the traditional looting in that there are many older tabletop fantasy roleplaying games that have completely different approaches to looting. I know of one (but I forgot it's name) where equipment is provided by ones liege for good service or dangerous missions. I know of another were looting earns very little money and all the good stuff is to be bought (and armour needs to be custom-fitted to be useful). A third where looting is a very valid option... just that the dead don't rest easy and often carry diseases... "Still want that loot?"



So looting isn¨t as fundamental in fantasy as DnD and crpgs might lead one to believe.



But UpsettingShorts raises really good questions about looting which I think are definately worth discussing at some point.

[Yrkoon]

Stick668 wrote...

Yrkoon sarcastroed...

Lets get rid of that. nothing should get in the way of  "artistic experimentation!"

The practice of minimizing redundancies is a time-honoured part of the creative toolbox in any medium.

Not an experimental technique.

Right.  So now we're operating under the premise that Looting treasure off the bodies of monsters = a redundancy.

Love it.

[Sigil_Beguiler123]

Sir JK wrote...

I just want to chip in ona small side-point about the traditional looting in that there are many older tabletop fantasy roleplaying games that have completely different approaches to looting. I know of one (but I forgot it's name) where equipment is provided by ones liege for good service or dangerous missions. I know of another were looting earns very little money and all the good stuff is to be bought (and armour needs to be custom-fitted to be useful). A third where looting is a very valid option... just that the dead don't rest easy and often carry diseases... "Still want that loot?"

So looting isn¨t as fundamental in fantasy as DnD and crpgs might lead one to believe.

But UpsettingShorts raises really good questions about looting which I think are definately worth discussing at some point.

Jumping off that, while extremely difficult to do in non-P&P games beyond the normal progress the plot type moments. It be wonderful if eventually the more immaterial loot that gets used in P&P gets transferred over to video-games, ie; earning favours, reputation, etc. that can be used at various times. I would love to one day see a mechanic almost be like money but where instead of loot (thus most likely get turned into money) you earn favours which can be cashed in for various things beyond just items.

[AxelBat]

first of all, saying that the new inventory system is like ME2 is grossly inaccurate, and you would know this if you listened to the podcast/watched some of the gameplay videos/read anything about it. I'm sure that's been said before anyway.

I don't see what the big problem is. When I first picked up DA:O the inventory system was intimidating to me. NOW I know how to deal with it, but I still recognize it as the flawed gem it is. I don't understand the general fear of change, I'm darn excited about these changes.

On the armor subject, it does improve on it's own and can be improved. Not only that but ARMOR isn't a big deal anyway, I've often forsaken better armor in favor of better looking armor and you know what I noticed? Nothing, there is almost no difference, at least if it's only a few points, and I'm sure it will be.

Calm down, I'm pretty sure Bioware isn't going out of their way to mess up Dragon Age. I know a lot of people where upset about the changes from ME to ME2 but I found ME2 to be superior and by far much better, and I know a good number of people agree with me. Everything I've seen looks much better, but I won't pass judgment on it until I sit down and play it myself.

Modifié par AxelBat, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:11 .

[upsettingshorts]

Yrkoon wrote...
Right.  So now we're operating under the premise that Looting treasure off the bodies of monsters = a redundancy.

Love it.

Well, can you get stuff from other places in RPGs?  Definitely.  Sources that make more sense?  Probably.  Involving doing something more interesting than clicking on a dead body?  Most assuredly.

Sounds pretty much like the textbook definition of redundancy to me.

Sigil_Beguiler123 wrote...
I would love to one day see a mechanic almost be like money but where instead of loot (thus most likely get turned into money) you earn favours which can be cashed in for various things beyond just items.

That would be cool.  I'm all for more creative ways to reward players.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:08 .

[Sir JK]

Sigil_Beguiler123 wrote...
Jumping off that, while extremely difficult to do in non-P&P games beyond the normal progress the plot type moments. It be wonderful if eventually the more immaterial loot that gets used in P&P gets transferred over to video-games, ie; earning favours, reputation, etc. that can be used at various times. I would love to one day see a mechanic almost be like money but where instead of loot (thus most likely get turned into money) you earn favours which can be cashed in for various things beyond just items.

Oooh. I like the way you think, that sounds absolutely fantastic (or rather potentionally fantastic). That the world truly reacts to what you do, rewarding you with atmosphere and narration rather than items.

[Aermas]

If I kill a man I want the stuff that man had, as long as I can carry it. Give every companion a backpack, if you fill up their pack SOL, that would be a new change in direction, without sacrificing what is good about looting. Also FF12 has a good loot mechanic (rest of the game sucks)