861 réponses à ce sujet

[Virginian]

Maria Caliban wrote...
I thought Subject Zero's costume in ME 2 was impractical and ugly, but it also was awesome in that it expressed in a strong and distinct way who she was. Dressing her in light armor 325 would be a shame.

1. When she was shot she had no protection.
2. If she was going to go on the mission with the temporarily dead in space Collector ship she would have been killed by the vaccum same from when leaving the Collector base to jump on to the N2.

Maria Caliban wrote...
I am more than willing to let go of a gameplay element I'm not that fond of (inventory management) for narrative reasons.

In both cases above the narrative reasons are far out shined by the lack of intelligence that went into her. If ME2 were to actually occur she would be nothing more than a liability and at best cannon fodder.

[Dave of Canada]

*serious mode activate*

I'm a big fan of this new inventory system because it makes the other characters stand out as their own person. It's really... odd to have characters like Leliana and Morrigan only appear differently because of their armor, characters aren't their own because we're simply switching bodies while keeping the same head.

Such a system, should it have been introduced in Origins, could've added unique animations to each individual character. Let's imagine Sten for a moment having a completely unique look, not wearing Chantry robes or whatever it is silly players can scrounge up and put the big softie in. Sten's animations could appear differently than say... Oghren or Alistair, he has his own model and they don't need to work on a 1:1 instance where all models must fit the same.

It must also be easier to create cutscenes ingame when they don't have to worry about clipping issues with the various armor types.

Though I don't understand much of the hate, should you have full customization of the stats of said armor it isn't much different from Origins. While you can't see a naked Isabela or Varric running around, it doesn't harm the game any less than that.  Hell, the whole idea of having armor scaling should introduce a lot more challenging things in the game. For example, they wouldn't have to worry about having a very undergeared party and can work on the difficulty aorund that. Always making sure your party never "overgears" content.

I'd also talk about having less Daggers or Dalish Leather Jockstraps in chests being a good thing but I've covered that a lot.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:19 .

[upsettingshorts]

Virginian wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
I thought Subject Zero's costume in ME 2 was impractical and ugly, but it also was awesome in that it expressed in a strong and distinct way who she was. Dressing her in light armor 325 would be a shame.

1. When she was shot she had no protection.
2. If she was going to go on the mission with the temporarily dead in space Collector ship she would have been killed by the vaccum same from when leaving the Collector base to jump on to the N2.

I think that was covered under "impractical."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:17 .

[Aermas]

The companions can have their own unique outfits but give us the option to dress them differently Isabela & Carver talking to the Viscount of Kirkwall, in a peasant's smock or pantsless is not realistic or "fun"

[upsettingshorts]

Somehow I doubt Isabela gives a damn about social conventions regarding the inappropriateness of her outfit. Carver? Who knows.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:26 .

[Dave of Canada]

Agreed with Upsetting about the Isabela thing.



Carver's probably one of the exceptions where he receives new clothes upon arriving in Kirkwall.

[Addai]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Though I don't understand much of the hate, should you have full customization of the stats of said armor it isn't much different from Origins. While you can't see a naked Isabela or Varric running around, it doesn't harm the game any less than that.  Hell, the whole idea of having armor scaling should introduce a lot more challenging things in the game. For example, they wouldn't have to worry about having a very undergeared party and can work on the difficulty aorund that. Always making sure your party never "overgears" content.

Armor customization is not just about stats.  In fact, for me it's not even primarily about stats, but about looks.

I also don't appreciate the game forcing "undergearing" or "overgearing" on me.  That's my job.  It's part of the challenge.

[Addai]

Yrkoon wrote...

Stick668 wrote...
Spending more of the time playing > doing clicky post-battle chores.

.

Clicky post-battle chores?  You mean looting treasure off the monsters  you just killed?

Right.  Lets get rid of that.  It's only one of the most  time-honored and cherished aspects of fantasy role playing.... going all the way back to pre-80s Dungeons and Dragons times, but hey, nothing should get in the way of  "artistic experimentation!" or whatever the catch-phrase is these days

I think that is "cinematic streamlining." 

[Addai]

AxelBat wrote...

On the armor subject, it does improve on it's own and can be improved. Not only that but ARMOR isn't a big deal anyway, I've often forsaken better armor in favor of better looking armor and you know what I noticed? Nothing, there is almost no difference, at least if it's only a few points, and I'm sure it will be.

Calm down, I'm pretty sure Bioware isn't going out of their way to mess up Dragon Age. I know a lot of people where upset about the changes from ME to ME2 but I found ME2 to be superior and by far much better, and I know a good number of people agree with me. Everything I've seen looks much better, but I won't pass judgment on it until I sit down and play it myself.

Well you can forget that now, at least for your companions.

Little patronizing on the back end there.  Just because you like something doesn't mean others do, and the forum exists to discuss.

[Yrkoon]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
Right.  So now we're operating under the premise that Looting treasure off the bodies of monsters = a redundancy.

Love it.

Well, can you get stuff from other places in RPGs?  Definitely.  Sources that make more sense?  Probably.  Involving doing something more interesting than clicking on a dead body?  Most assuredly.

Sounds pretty much like the textbook definition of redundancy to me.

But it isn't.  It's tied to the system and if you remove it, the system  becomes flawed.    For example:  Great artifacts of power  and other riches in the realms aren't  best acquired by "bartering with  city merchants" or  whatever.  They're  best acquired by defeating powerful beings who use those artifacts against you in battle.  And  Adenturers don't go slaying dragons to get their daily exercise or to receive some discount at the local tavern.  They slay dragons because dragon's keep HOARDS in their lairs.

Yes, I know that the discussion was mainly about the  repetative, mundane loot that clutters your inventory,  not the unique  rare stuff.  But the concept is exactly the same.   Loot IS the currency  for adventurers in RPGs.  And Adventurers fight for a living.    Changing an RPG so as to  Do away with   post battle looting is  kinda like telling an adventurer that he's  not gonna get paid for working  - that he has to  continue working, and then find some other way to make money.  And while  this can still be done, I'd hardly call such a change "eliminating redundancy"

Of course,  this is all off topic.  Bioware isn't  getting rid of inventory space or corpse looting anyway. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:34 .

[Aermas]

I don't care what Isabela thinks about social situations I am the leader & I call the shots, if I want her to wear leather because without it she is a pin-cushion she better wear the armor, If I tell her to wear some noble clothes to see the Viscount she better wear the noble clothes, same goes for Carver & Bethany.

[Dave of Canada]

Addai67 wrote...

Armor customization is not just about stats.  In fact, for me it's not even primarily about stats, but about looks.

I also don't appreciate the game forcing "undergearing" or "overgearing" on me.  That's my job.  It's part of the challenge.

What was there to look about Origins, though? You had a green armor, you might loot a chest and loot a greener armor and if you were lucky enough to kill a very special boss you got the same armor but it was red instead. Only the massive armors for example were any different and even then they happened to all simply be reskins.

I'm heavily doubting one who enjoys looks of their characters would replace Morrigan's Robe for say... Robe of the First Enchanter. The large majority would rather enjoy keeping Morrigan's unique look and that's part of what defined the character.

I can't even imagine playing ME2 with the loot system of ME1, seeing Jack / Miranda or Jacob in Colossus Armor would just look... wrong.

Though I'll respect your opinion of you enjoying more the DA:O system, I'll just kindly disagree (and argue about it because I have nothing else to do at 2:30 AM).

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:32 .

[Aermas]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
 Sources that make more sense?

What makes more sense than the soldier I just killed?

Modifié par Aermas, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:32 .

[Dave of Canada]

Aermas wrote...

I don't care what Isabela thinks about social situations I am the leader & I call the shots, if I want her to wear leather because without it she is a pin-cushion she better wear the armor, If I tell her to wear some noble clothes to see the Viscount she better wear the noble clothes, same goes for Carver & Bethany.

I'd like to see you say that to a friend in real life.

"Hey, I don't like your clothes. Wear this instead."
"No."
"WEAR IT! I'M IN CHARGE HERE!"

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:33 .

[Aermas]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Armor customization is not just about stats.  In fact, for me it's not even primarily about stats, but about looks.

I also don't appreciate the game forcing "undergearing" or "overgearing" on me.  That's my job.  It's part of the challenge.

What was there to look about Origins, though? You had a green armor, you might loot a chest and loot a greener armor and if you were lucky enough to kill a very special boss you got the same armor but it was red instead. Only the massive armors for example were any different and even then they happened to all simply be reskins.

I'm heavily doubting one who enjoys looks of their characters would replace Morrigan's Robe for say... Robe of the First Enchanter. The large majority would rather enjoy keeping Morrigan's unique look and that's part of what defined the character.

I can't even imagine playing ME2 with the loot system of ME1, seeing Jack / Miranda or Jacob in Colossus Armor would just look... wrong.

Though I'll respect your opinion of you enjoying more the DA:O system, I'll just kindly disagree (and argue about it because I have nothing else to do at 2:30 AM).

So if your problem exists solely with the genericness of armors you would not care if there were still many different armors as long as they all looked different?

[upsettingshorts]

Aermas wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
 Sources that make more sense?

What makes more sense than the soldier I just killed?

An armorer or weaponsmith?  What is wrong with more Herren and Wade type paths to equipping your toons?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:37 .

[Dave of Canada]

Aermas wrote...

So if your problem exists solely with the genericness of armors you would not care if there were still many different armors as long as they all looked different?

My problem wasn't the genericness, I was only making a comparison. I'd much prefer unique looks. Morrigan just happened to have one, though it was tied to her robe instead. Change her robe? She magically grows a bra and 2-3 cup sizes.

[Aermas]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Aermas wrote...

I don't care what Isabela thinks about social situations I am the leader & I call the shots, if I want her to wear leather because without it she is a pin-cushion she better wear the armor, If I tell her to wear some noble clothes to see the Viscount she better wear the noble clothes, same goes for Carver & Bethany.

I'd like to see you say that to a friend in real life.

"Hey, I don't like your clothes. Wear this instead."
"No."
"WEAR IT! I'M IN CHARGE HERE!"

My friends have enough sense to wear what is social appropriate & was is logically practical in combat.

[Aermas]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
 Sources that make more sense?

What makes more sense than the soldier I just killed?

An armorer or weaponsmith?  What is wrong with more Herren and Wade type paths to equipping your toons?

They were there, there was five smiths in the game, not counting the other merchants

[Dave of Canada]

Aermas wrote...

My friends have enough sense to wear what is social appropriate & was is logically practical in combat.

And if they don't give a damn about either? Does that mean your opinion overrides theirs? 

[upsettingshorts]

Aermas wrote...

My friends have enough sense to wear what is social appropriate & was is logically practical in combat.

You don't have a friend like Isabela then.

Aermas wrote...

They were there, there was five smiths in the game, not counting the other merchants

... forget it.  I'm not going to explain my point again.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[Leonia]

Gosh, some of you guys have really bossy PCs. It's a shame the companions can't ever turn around and challenge your decisions (well, aside from that time Sten does it in Haven). I'm sure they'd be pretty grumpy with the way they get ordered about.

[Aermas]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Aermas wrote...

My friends have enough sense to wear what is social appropriate & was is logically practical in combat.

And if they don't give a damn about either? Does that mean your opinion overrides theirs? 

Then they would die in combat as they have no armor

[AlanC9]

Yrkoon wrote...
 Loot IS the currency  for adventurers in RPGs. 

RPG's based on D&D, anyway. I've played in many RPG systems where loot is an afterthought because equipment's mostly generic, issued by NPCs, and/or useful only for the current mission, and several systems where you can't use loot at all because you have to pay character points for anything you're using.

I'm just guessing here, but I figure you wouldn't like those systems as much as I do.

But you do bring up an interesting point:

And  Adenturers don't go slaying dragons to get their daily exercise or to receive some discount at the local tavern.  They slay dragons because dragon's keep HOARDS in their lairs.

If anything, this explains why Bioware has turned against loot. They're not interested in characters who are in it for the loot.

And note that this illustrates a big difference between fantasy literature and typical RPG gameplay. I can't think offhand of any fantasy hero who kills a dragon for the loot. The loot's sometimes a nice bonus, but that's never why he's there. The dwarves in The Hobbit are after Smaug to recover loot, true, but it's their loot they're trying to get back, which isn't at all the same thing.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 novembre 2010 - 07:52 .

[Leonia]

Aermas wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Aermas wrote...

My friends have enough sense to wear what is social appropriate & was is logically practical in combat.

And if they don't give a damn about either? Does that mean your opinion overrides theirs? 

Then they would die in combat as they have no armor

They do have armour it's just not cosmetically what you like it to be. The stats are still there and can still be manipulated over time.