861 réponses à ce sujet

[Stick668]

Erm. Where were we? Was it this suggestion?

Aermas wrote...

Make it character specific & a max of 7-8, min of 3-4, which is less than the amount of armors found in Origins

There's nothing wrong with it at all. Just a question of zot allocation, I guess. 

[Tiax Rules All]

Aermas wrote...
What is so wrong with the equipment suggestion that I proposed?

Why do you pose your questions like that if you dont want certain reactions...
There is nothing wrong with your suggestion. Its just not what Bioware is diong for this game. Your suggestion requires alot more work from the developers then you think. Sure it is possible, but they probably will not have up to 7 unique outfits for each NPC.

I will clarify any questions you might have on what and why technically but the question as you posed it has the tone of an arguement about it.

[Aermas]

But what if you could choose a handful of custom suits for your companions to try & please a broader spectrum of gamers? Personally I would like more control as I don't want Bioware to make games like Final Fantasy

[upsettingshorts]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Aermas wrote...
What is so wrong with the equipment suggestion that I proposed?

Why do you pose your questions like that if you dont want certain reactions...
There is nothing wrong with your suggestion. Its just not what Bioware is diong for this game. Your suggestion requires alot more work from the developers then you think. Sure it is possible, but they probably will not have up to 7 unique outfits for each NPC.

I will clarify any questions you might have on what and why technically but the question as you posed it has the tone of an arguement about it.

My opinion on Aermas' suggestion is exactly the same as Tiax Rules All's opinion.  I think.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 09:11 .

[Tiax Rules All]

Aermas wrote...

But what if you could choose a handful of custom suits for your companions to try & please a broader spectrum of gamers? Personally I would like more control as I don't want Bioware to make games like Final Fantasy

wether you realise it or not you are pretty hard to talk to here.

There is no more what if's. The design desision has been made, the game will be the way I have described. Save your what if's for Dragon Age 3. They will give you a few (cant say exact) unique outfits, Sorry its not as many as you would like.

I'm with Leonia42 now
/facepalm
/exit thread

[Aermas]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Aermas wrote...
What is so wrong with the equipment suggestion that I proposed?

Why do you pose your questions like that if you dont want certain reactions...
There is nothing wrong with your suggestion. Its just not what Bioware is diong for this game. Your suggestion requires alot more work from the developers then you think. Sure it is possible, but they probably will not have up to 7 unique outfits for each NPC.

I will clarify any questions you might have on what and why technically but the question as you posed it has the tone of an arguement about it.

My opinion on Aermas' suggestion is exactly the same as Tiax Rules All's opinion.  I think.

:)Curse you all for having agreeable discourse of opinion!!! & with that I turn in for the night

Modifié par Aermas, 09 novembre 2010 - 09:15 .

[Sir JK]

Aermas wrote...

But what if you could choose a handful of custom suits for your companions to try & please a broader spectrum of gamers? Personally I would like more control as I don't want Bioware to make games like Final Fantasy

It's jus dependant on how many outfits there are Aermas. It'd be great if it was like that, but consider that it is a lot of work. 3 suits per companion means, assuming 9 companions, 27 models, 36 if we include naked and then all the various Hawke armours times 2 and then all other npc. With just three outfits each we're way above what Origins had (unless we count recolours, which I asusme we don't).
7 oufits each mean conversely 63 or 72 models just for the companions. I think you see why this is a trouble just on that number.

This is rough counting of course. But it does point out the problem with unique models and customisation.

But I want it clear that your suggestion is something of an ideal for me as well. I'd love several outfits to choose from... it just seems rather difficult to make.

[AlanC9]

Aermas wrote...

What is so wrong with the equipment suggestion that I proposed?

Depends. I'm still not sure if you mean the new armors to be purely cosmetic. I'd find that that to be a waste of dev  time, but not enough of one for me to really care about.  Actually using stats from these armors strikes me as fairly difficult to balance unless there are a lot of them, in which case the feature becomes an even bigger zot sink.

I'm also not at all certain that this would be worth doing even for the people who want armor customization. A few outfits per character wouldn't satisfy anybody completely, and might even be worse than cutting armor customization altogether. I prefer nothing to a bad feature. But since I'm uninterested in armor customization in the first place I'm not qualified to judge the merits here.

[Stick668]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

For example, in Mass Effect 1 I didn't like Ashley's pink armor, so I gave her something else and forgot about it. If she had been in it permanently, like another appearance I disliked (say, Miranda's catsuit) then guess what, I'm going to love or hate it based on the choices of Bioware's art department and not my own.

Ya. Another side to this is... well, my reaction to NPC visual options in DAO?

"Meh. Shrug. Works, i guess. Meh. Oh, I give up. Hang on, did any mod-makers come up with more interesting things? Hmmmm. Dear lord, I'd feel terrible about importing things with these ridiculous stats."

I suppose you could argue that Distinct! Iconic! Love It Or Hate It! has some merits over Eh, It's Okay. (Provoking a reaction is good and all?)

That said, the only armor-choice in recent BW games that made me outright frown? ME2 Kaidan. Not so pretty in pink.


 

[Fortlowe]

Aermas wrote...

But bring that matter to light makes everyone focus on that & now every argument is now about RPGs,
seeing as this is now turning into an argument about arguing let's turn back to inventory.

What is so wrong with the equipment suggestion that I proposed?

I don't think it is wrong. I do disagree with it though. I too would favor a much more (*flinches*) 'streamlined' sytem to upgrade my companions gear. But streamlined in a fashion that still accomedates asthetic variation. Simply reducing the amount of available armors negates the personalization approach that DA2 is taking with the NPC's. Instead of looting and tombraiding for complete armor sets, why not use the crafting dynamic that the 'Wade' quests introduced in DA:O? However, instead of crafting an entire set of armor that can be worn by the PC or any of the companions, the item is exclusive to a specific companion. For increased sophistication, the player could, in some circumstances, choose which character the item is crafted for and this choice could have plot implications.

For example, after gathering the proper materials, the PC could choose to have either a new chainmail shirt for Carver, new arm shielding for Isibela, or a new breastplate for Hawke crafted by the smithy. Once it is crafted though, it belongs to that character alone for the remainder of the game. This system, along with the proposed upgrade system, would liberate the inventory, while still encouraging looting (cuz I am an unapologetic loot wh0re), and and allow for even more fulfilling and meaningful companion customizing I think.

Addendum: For added, depth, different smithy's could craft different items. For example, the smith you encountered earlier in the game may fashion a two handed axe with the same materials that the smith in the hub you are currently visiting would fashion a breastplate.

Modifié par Fortlowe, 09 novembre 2010 - 09:33 .

[Yana Montana]

Ok, here is this thing: different types of body in ME2 was indeed a great thing, but I got tired seeing Miranda or Jack wearing same piece (plus their loyality outfit which was mostly retexturing) AL THE TIME! Being an RPG fan I like playing with colours and textures and different types. Yes, DA:O mostly has same body types, but still we have elves, human, qunari and dwarves who are not that similar. I want more options!



And why are you, guys, are so quick to defend BioWare and try to justify their choice?WE are customers, we have the right to get a high quality product and I'd sooner wait more to see my companions wearing different outfits than get sick of Bethany wearing same robes after 30 minutes of playing the game.

[upsettingshorts]

I only defend them - I dont agree with the decision as I said on the previous page - because I don't think it's a question of Bioware cutting content or delivering a subpar game.

It just means they made a design choice in good faith. Nothing wrong with liking it or disliking it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 09:44 .

[Yana Montana]

I think they will cut the content to milk us all later with Alternative Appearance DLC's ME2 style. <_<

[upsettingshorts]

I don't subscribe to that theory of how DLC works. Granted, if/when they do I won't buy it, because I didn't buy it for ME2 either. That's how I vote on those kinds of things.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 09:55 .

[Stick668]

Yana Montana wrote...

Being an RPG fan I like playing with colours and textures and different types.

Being a shooter fan, I enjoy exploding barrels, BFGs and critters that jump out of closets.
Being a fan of mindnumbingly addictive "casual" games, I enjoy falling bricks that disappear once a line is complete.
Being an RTS fan, I loathe the umpteen-pool Zergling rush and the Siege Tank.
Being a fan of 4X games, I love nuking the crap out of everything while playing as Gandhi.

And why are you guys so quick to defend BioWare and try to justify their choice? WE are customers, we have the right to...

Thing is, "those guys" are quite probably also customers. And "fans". Who happen to care more about some things and less about others.

On a related note, I highly recommend the podcasts. They answer more questions than... well, definitely more than I do.

[Ciryx]

Yana Montana wrote...

Ok, here is this thing: different types of body in ME2 was indeed a great thing, but I got tired seeing Miranda or Jack wearing same piece (plus their loyality outfit which was mostly retexturing) AL THE TIME! Being an RPG fan I like playing with colours and textures and different types. Yes, DA:O mostly has same body types, but still we have elves, human, qunari and dwarves who are not that similar. I want more options!

And why are you, guys, are so quick to defend BioWare and try to justify their choice?WE are customers, we have the right to get a high quality product and I'd sooner wait more to see my companions wearing different outfits than get sick of Bethany wearing same robes after 30 minutes of playing the game.

Pretty much this. And i am a bit curious where u get the information about different Bodytypes? As far as i know there will only be one Bodytype for each race/sex each.
About the "unique Charactersupporting clothing"... right. That totally means if u want to have it u need to get rid of costumization at all. Right? Derp. Its not like there were some pretty awesome Characterspecific Items in Origins: Like Stens Sword oder Marjorlains Bow. Just imagine u could find some Characterspecific Armor later in the game for your Companions with unique visuals? These Armors could even have Attributs that would fit the default Role that a Character has. I.E. Leliana being an Archer. Talk about charactersupporting clothing.
But most importanly it would give you choice! You choose if u would wear that clothing. You could choose how to specc your Characters. You could choose how to play the game.
All that things that most of you are defending are shortcuts. Ofc it cost less work to do so, and the game will be faster done. But it cost the game the essence... of being a game. I play games for the choices i can do in it, and by that i dont speak about the narrative only, but about gameplay too. And predefined Gear, Talents and stuff like that take it away from the hands of the player.

[Yana Montana]

@ Stick668

Last time I checked DA2 claimed to be RPG and customisation is an essential part of it, no?

Modifié par Yana Montana, 09 novembre 2010 - 10:03 .

[Stick668]

I may have been implying something else.:innocent:

Modifié par Stick668, 09 novembre 2010 - 10:06 .

[Fortlowe]

Yana Montana wrote...

Ok, here is this thing: different types of body in ME2 was indeed a great thing, but I got tired seeing Miranda or Jack wearing same piece (plus their loyality outfit which was mostly retexturing) AL THE TIME! Being an RPG fan I like playing with colours and textures and different types. Yes, DA:O mostly has same body types, but still we have elves, human, qunari and dwarves who are not that similar. I want more options!

And why are you, guys, are so quick to defend BioWare and try to justify their choice?WE are customers, we have the right to get a high quality product and I'd sooner wait more to see my companions wearing different outfits than get sick of Bethany wearing same robes after 30 minutes of playing the game.

I want to be able to customize the companions looks as well. I just did not think the cookie cutter method of garbing them in DA:O was particularly satisfying. Whether Oghren, Sten, or Allister were wearing it, it was still the same old Legion of the Dead armor. That sacrificed the characters visual indentity. So I very much support no interchangeable armor sets for the NPCs

However, the complete absence of player initiated appearance changes for the NPC's seems extreme, and I do not support that. I would prefer a more piece meal system of customization. Mixing up the armor sets in DA:O was not only unflattering, it resulted in not getting the maximum available armor bonus. I was hoping that a more sophisticated system for character customerization would become available in DA2, but not that customization would be done away with entirely.

So I am not defending BW, I just don't entirely disagree with scraping the old system.

Modifié par Fortlowe, 09 novembre 2010 - 10:21 .

[Ciryx]

Stick668 wrote...

Being a shooter fan, I enjoy exploding barrels, BFGs and critters that jump out of closets.

Now take away the different guns in the games... let all barrels look the same and scratch the critters.

It would still be an shooter...


Take Items, Gear and that stuff out of an rpg.

It would still be an rpg...

[Ciryx]

Fortlowe wrote...
I want to be able to customize the companions looks as well. I just did not think the cookie cutter method of garbing them in DA:O was particularly satisfying. Whether Oghren, Sten, or Allister were wearing it, it was still the same old Legion of the Dead armor. That sacrificed the characters visual indentity. So I very much support no interchangeable armor sets for the NPCs

However, the complete absence of player initiated appearance changes for the NPC's seems extreme, and I do not support that. I would prefer a more peice meal system of customization. Mixing up the armor sets in DA:O was not only unflattering, but resulted in not getting the maximum available armor bonus. I was hoping that a more sophisticated system for character customerization would become available in DA2, but not that customization would be done away with entirely.

So I am not defending BW, I just don't entirely disagree with scraping the old system.

Yes!

The old system had its flaws, but thats a reason to work on it, not scratch it completley.

[upsettingshorts]

Yana Montana wrote...

@ Stick668

Last time I checked DA2 claimed to be RPG and customisation is an essential part of it, no?

Depends who you ask.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 novembre 2010 - 10:10 .

[Yana Montana]

Ciryx wrote...

The old system had its flaws, but thats a reason to work on it, not scratch it completley.

I agree.

[Stick668]

 @Yana:

To be somewhat less insufferably glib...

Last time I checked DA2 claimed to be RPG and customisation is an essential part of it, no?

No. I don't think it is. Not to the extent that some people demand it. I think it is about choices and story and meaning and  characters and maybe not in that order. This can include visual choices, but I don't think it has to.

Another problem I seem to have is that I can't bring myself to care if something lives up to perceived ideals.

I'm more interested in if it's a "good game".

Generalists have more fun. We're also confusingly cheeky. Or at least confused.

Modifié par Stick668, 09 novembre 2010 - 10:17 .

[Ciryx]

Stick668 wrote...

 @Yana:

To be somewhat less insufferably glib...

Last time I checked DA2 claimed to be RPG and customisation is an essential part of it, no?

No. I don't think it is. Not to the extent that some people demand it. I think it is about choices and story and meaning and  characters and maybe not in that order. This can include visual choices, but I don't think it has to.

Another problem I seem to have is that I can't bring myself to care if something lives up to perceived ideals.

I'm more interested in if it's a "good game".

Generalists have more fun. We're also confusingly cheeky. Or at least confused.

I like haveing choices. I like haveing them in the narrative Structure. But i also like haveing choices in terms of gameplay. And yes! in a game developed in 2010 i want to see some visual resemblence of that choices.
The next step would be that your gameplaychoices would affect the narrative. In example if u made sten useing a bow his combat related dialogue would change and his approche to defeat enemeys.
Imo that would be the next logical step that rpgs should take.

But wait.... that gameplaychoices are getting less and less and that will clearly lead us to... well. I am pretty sure its a step backwards than a step forwards. I am not to sure if that is the next logical step rpgs should take. :/

The overall gameexperience will be ok, no doubt. But it will be always the same.

Modifié par Ciryx, 09 novembre 2010 - 10:25 .