861 réponses à ce sujet

[Thorn18]

I liked changing the equipment of my companions. It felt like they were actual people with me, not just someone to compliment my skills.



It was neat putting Alister in the King's old armor, or giving Oghren the Meteor sword. Now I feel like i'm just upping some numbers.

[Sir JK]

There is also a significant portion of "supporters" that aren't happy with the new inventory per se, but see the benefits of the fixed outfits of the companions as outweighing that of the old inventory.



Remember, in the DA engine each character consists of two parts: the head and the body. The head is unique and the body is a generic model with that armour (so to clarify, you don't really put armour on the character you put the character on the armour... literally). These generic bodies are always the same. The same animations, same look and so on. This is why Leliana and Anora have the same body language for instance... it is because it's the same skeleton doing the same animation,



Now, One of the things Bioware is doing is making the characters more iconic and memorable. Just like we want them to (there's not a single one of us that doesn't want more companion goodness, right?). More dialogue, more unique characteristics... and then we hit a problem,

40% of human communication is done by body language (include the face at it rises to 70%), what makes it worse is that it's the subtle part that we all take for granted. The things that makes us recognice people we know from a long distance simply by how they move.

Body language is unique from person to person. The generic bodies have generic body language. So in order to accomodate this part they must give the companions a unique animation set, which means a unique body and thus unique outfit.

Furthermore, this unqiue outfit now allows the character to move cinematically and interact with their surroundings. Which is a huge step forward. The character just became poseable and can now do stuff that they otherwise couldn't (because the bodies were generic). So the interaction with them will become more cinematic.



So what it gained by the loss of customisable armour is a unique body language (which does a lot to flesh out characters and make them iconic) and the abilty to see the characters move cinematically.



To some people, this gives us a whole lot more than a customisable appearance (remember, the stats are still supposedly customisable). An acceptable trade off. So it's not that we like the new inventory as such, but that we like what comes with it.

[Archereon]

Saibh wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Really, why do people act as if you can't alter your companions in any way? You'll still be able to change the stats of their armour how you please. It's only the appearance that largely remains the same.

So they can wear they can all wear the official Champion of Kirkwall Dalish leather armor uniform, duh!

Some people just enjoy inventory management.

[Slayer299]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Why am I happy about the change in companion armor?

Because I want my companions' look to be unique and reflect their personality.

I thought Subject Zero's costume in ME 2 was impractical and ugly, but it also was awesome in that it expressed in a strong and distinct way who she was. Dressing her in light armor 325 would be a shame.

I am more than willing to let go of a gameplay element I'm not that fond of (inventory management) for narrative reasons.

I don't agree with you on Jack. I did like her initial appearance, it was very "Jack". But it became a breaker for immersion (for me) when you're in a hostile environement or none and Jack has nothing for protection on her but her leather straps and a mask over her mouth and nose when I was armored up and fully protected.

But to the OP and the lack of armor change, no, I think it stinks and it takes something important away from the game and NPC customization. It seems foolish that you're comrades will wear less than protective clothes so that they stay, "unique", when they know after joining you that you're going to be in the thick of things...

[the_one_54321]

Archereon wrote...
From what I've heard, we've been told  that companions will have, at best, a system with the depth of the Mass Effect 2 Shepard "inventory" system, meaning there's no (or very minimal) itemization (as outfit changes will be aestetic, with minor stat boosts given to us at best) for companions at least.

This is fully inaccurate. They have specificially given us info that confirms the inventory system will be more interactive than the ME2 system. Definitively.
You can customize companion armor with runes. You can equip and unequip different weapons and accesories. ME2 had weapon assignments only at the start of missions and at weapon wracks, and .... well that was it. Except for the chance to reskin companions there was no other inventory, and that's not really an inventory feature to begin with.

[Archereon]

*snip*

Ultimately it boils down to a cinematic appeal vs gameplay appeal (for those who like inventory managment) thing.  I tend to prefer the latter, its one of those niggling annoyances for me when I can't change my companions armor significantly in ME2, and I don't want that translated into DA2.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Archereon wrote...

Giving companions unique skills means they'll be vastly different from Hawke or any other generic Mage/Warrior/Rogue in function, and since its obvious Hawke is going to get the best out of the skillsets, I'm worried that Bioware might have to make that difference so large as to make your companions irrelevant, a way of cutting corners around balancing multiple, vastly different combat functions between companions.

Well, if anything, unique skills add to the combat prowess, not take away from it. Minsc from Baldur's Gate. He was a ranger and, unlike any other ranger including the protagonist, he had Rage which helped a lot in countless situations. Or Jaheira had Harper's Call which allowed her to resurrect allies even though she was no cleric. I'd expect unique abilities to be generally encouraged and welcome, not the opposite. It's surprising, really.

[upsettingshorts]

Mass Effect 2 also had a completely abstracted and poorly utilized Research Upgrade system to change the "stats" of the team's armor and equipment, but since we never got to see it displayed anywhere, it might as well have not existed.



Good thing Dragon Age 2 isn't like that. And I doubt Mass Effect 3 will be either.

[Archereon]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Archereon wrote...
From what I've heard, we've been told  that companions will have, at best, a system with the depth of the Mass Effect 2 Shepard "inventory" system, meaning there's no (or very minimal) itemization (as outfit changes will be aestetic, with minor stat boosts given to us at best) for companions at least.

This is fully inaccurate. They have specificially given us info that confirms the inventory system will be more interactive than the ME2 system. Definitively.
You can customize companion armor with runes. You can equip and unequip different weapons and accesories. ME2 had weapon assignments only at the start of missions and at weapon wracks, and .... well that was it. Except for the chance to reskin companions there was no other inventory, and that's not really an inventory feature to begin with.

More interactive than ME2 companions, that's not at all hard.  Just bump it to Shepard's level, and voalia!

More interactive.  Or just make the effort to show us a numerical difference between the "upgrades" we attach to our companion armor rather than just telling us "this module makes you do more headshot damage with sniper rifles."

[Archereon]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Giving companions unique skills means they'll be vastly different from Hawke or any other generic Mage/Warrior/Rogue in function, and since its obvious Hawke is going to get the best out of the skillsets, I'm worried that Bioware might have to make that difference so large as to make your companions irrelevant, a way of cutting corners around balancing multiple, vastly different combat functions between companions.

Well, if anything, unique skills add to the combat prowess, not take away from it. Minsc from Baldur's Gate. He was a ranger and, unlike any other ranger including the protagonist, he had Rage which helped a lot in countless situations. Or Jaheira had Harper's Call which allowed her to resurrect allies even though she was no cleric. I'd expect unique abilities to be generally encouraged and welcome, not the opposite. It's surprising, really.

The problem is more that it seems to be FULL skillsets, or at least a large portion of them from what I've heard, which leads to the balancing issue that is best solved by marginalizing the use of your companions in combat.

[the_one_54321]

Yeah... that's what they showed us. That's what this system will do. You place runes with number values on them. You swap weapons with number values on them. You swap accessories with number values on them.

[tishyw]

I don't think everyone is happy about it. I much prefer chosing how all the characters look, not just my pc, and really don't fancy spending the entire game look at Isabela's knickers!

But there isn't much we can do, other than not buy the game.

[Sir JK]

Archereon wrote...
Ultimately it boils down to a cinematic appeal vs gameplay appeal (for those who like inventory managment) thing.  I tend to prefer the latter, its one of those niggling annoyances for me when I can't change my companions armor significantly in ME2, and I don't want that translated into DA2.

I assumed it was directed to me.
This is all perfectly understandable and boils down to individual preference. I do understand the appeal of altering ones companion's outfits to what one feels like. I hope you'll find the system in DA2 not too annoying and that you'll be able to enjoy it regardless.

[upsettingshorts]

DA:2's inventory is the same except that your companions' armor cant be changed except on rare occasions. That's quite literally the only difference. Imagine if Morrigan's Robes were static, but you could still get the Robes of Possession (that look the same) later. Maybe some characters get a different look later on, maybe they don't, but it's basically like that.

Another difference is that it seems the armor outfits can be upgraded with things like padding, which does strike me as Mass Effect 2-like, but Christina Norman said she didn't like how we didn't get any feedback for Research Upgrades, so I doubt the DA:2 team is going to make the same mistake and it will be better implemented.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 novembre 2010 - 01:48 .

[Khayness]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Mass Effect 2 also had a completely abstracted and poorly utilized Research Upgrade system to change the "stats" of the team's armor and equipment, but since we never got to see it displayed anywhere, it might as well have not existed.

Good thing Dragon Age 2 isn't like that. And I doubt Mass Effect 3 will be either.

Yeah, that was a big kick in the balls. Even Army of Two had a more detailed weapon stat system.

[the_one_54321]

From all indications, the only thing we don't have control over is the way the companion will look in gameplay. That doesn't bother me in the slightest. They're big boys and girls, they can dress themselves.

[upsettingshorts]

Khayness wrote...
Yeah, that was a big kick in the balls. Even Army of Two had a more detailed weapon stat system.

Battlefield: Bad Company 2, which doesn't claim to be an RPG of any sort, had a more detailed weapon stat system.

I'm not terribly in favor of this change either, but having to defend it against some of the weaker criticisms - or ones that simply don't understand how it's going to work - is pushing me the other way.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 novembre 2010 - 01:50 .

[Archereon]

the_one_54321 wrote...

From all indications, the only thing we don't have control over is the way the companion will look in gameplay. That doesn't bother me in the slightest. They're big boys and girls, they can dress themselves.

But I enjoy dressing them...And I'm still worried that these stat changes will be largely irrelevant/largely insubstantial/EXTREMELY abstract like ME's upgrades.

[Saibh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Khayness wrote...
Yeah, that was a big kick in the balls. Even Army of Two had a more detailed weapon stat system.

Battlefield: Bad Company 2, which doesn't claim to be an RPG of any sort, had a more detailed weapon stat system.

I'm not terribly in favor of this change either, but having to defend it against some of the weaker criticisms - or ones that simply don't understand how it's going to work - is pushing me the other way.

I think I know what you mean. I didn't really like the change, but I didn't think it ruined the game, so I felt like I should defend it. I don't know if it's because I'm contrary or what...

[upsettingshorts]

Archereon wrote...
But I enjoy dressing them...And I'm still worried that these stat changes will be largely irrelevant/largely insubstantial/EXTREMELY abstract like ME's upgrades.

Why would they repeat something that ME2's lead designer has said, granted it was on Twitter, didn't work?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 novembre 2010 - 01:52 .

[Ander167]

I think it all comes down to the fact that EA owns Bioware's soul and cares nothing about RPGs. Honestly, Mass Effect 2 is really a FPS with a really good story and great companions. I didn't feel like my decisions did anything in ME2. I was honestly surprised that DA:O was as similar as it was to NWN and Baldur's gate. I think EA realized that America has been brainwashed by consoles and that DA:O was not a console friendly game. DA2 is the result. The old Bioware would never have done this.

[Helena Tylena]

Archereon wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Giving companions unique skills means they'll be vastly different from Hawke or any other generic Mage/Warrior/Rogue in function, and since its obvious Hawke is going to get the best out of the skillsets, I'm worried that Bioware might have to make that difference so large as to make your companions irrelevant, a way of cutting corners around balancing multiple, vastly different combat functions between companions.

Well, if anything, unique skills add to the combat prowess, not take away from it. Minsc from Baldur's Gate. He was a ranger and, unlike any other ranger including the protagonist, he had Rage which helped a lot in countless situations. Or Jaheira had Harper's Call which allowed her to resurrect allies even though she was no cleric. I'd expect unique abilities to be generally encouraged and welcome, not the opposite. It's surprising, really.

The problem is more that it seems to be FULL skillsets, or at least a large portion of them from what I've heard, which leads to the balancing issue that is best solved by marginalizing the use of your companions in combat.

My money's on the Swashbuckler skillset being very much alike to the dual wield rogue skillset with a few skills removed and a few skills added. Expect quite a few duelist skills in that one, too.

[the_one_54321]

Archereon wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
From all indications, the only thing we don't have control over is the way the companion will look in gameplay. That doesn't bother me in the slightest. They're big boys and girls, they can dress themselves.

But I enjoy dressing them...And I'm still worried that these stat changes will be largely irrelevant/largely insubstantial/EXTREMELY abstract like ME's upgrades.

That doesn't sound like something you should be worried about. Runes were very number based, and runes are what we're using.
As for dressing, I prefer the new looks to the copy-paste armors we got in DA:O. There's going to be less variability, but it will look much much more interesting overall.

[Khayness]

the_one_54321 wrote...

From all indications, the only thing we don't have control over is the way the companion will look in gameplay. That doesn't bother me in the slightest. They're big boys and girls, they can dress themselves.

I'll just smack myself in the face before I get my practical mindset working on how Isabela's arteries are vulnerable between her boots and panties.

[upsettingshorts]

Ander167 wrote...
The old Bioware would never have done this.

The old Bioware wouldn't be developing three AAA games concurrently (DA:2, ME3, TOR) because they didn't have the resources.  The rest of your argument could and has been refuted a hundred times by a hundred people this week alone, so I won't reshash it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 novembre 2010 - 01:53 .