861 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

ViSeirA wrote...
Logic says so, They didn't have enough time OR budget to create more than one unique outfit for your companions, do you really think they'll create lots of NPC body types and armor that it makes them very variable you wouldn't notice the similarities?

Why do you think it was a time constraint? Hawke has the DA:O gear, and presumably enough gear to swap apperance. Why waste time, given your argument, to design 8 unique meshes for companions, when they could design 8 generic meshes for armour for Hawke that the companions could wear?

No, it makes sense that resource was not the limitaton.

Let's face it here, I've worked on team-based projects before and I understand the time/budget constraints but the Origins system worked very well, if they'd taken the time and made a unique outfilt for Morrigan in Origins, then why not Alistair? seeing as how he's as crucial to the story as she is, and they still made companion outfits customizable in Origins, it's all about choices and I believe that in this situation they chose wrong.

No, the answer with Alistair is that he is a warrior and not a mage. For a mage, the vanilla gear is very good. Archon robes, Senior Enchanter Robes and Morrigan's Custom are solid mage armours for most characters up to the late game period.

Whereas giving Alistair a custom model means wasting it on one wth crap statistics (no armour/stat bonuses) because it is starter gear or giving him stupidly overpowered gear.

Because of the way the armour tier works versus the mage tier, custom warrior armour doesn't work.

[In Exile]

tmp7704 wrote...
Oh, i was just trying to give In Exile some nightmare fuel. They do incidentally illustrate though that the whole concept of "iconic, unique" image is to large extent an artificial media construct. I think it's something that was fueled by comic books, with their need to vary multitude of generally identical looking super heroes.

But those are all people going to work.



This shows you a lot more variability in apperance, because these are students with less social/profesional obligations. Your average street will show you the same variabiity your average military unit will on a tuesday morning.

[Brockololly]

the_one_54321 wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...
the same redundant bodies and armors still exist throughout DA2 in NPCs

Says who? We haven't even seen any of those yet. You're not allowed to just make things up to support your argument.

Well, we have seen some armors that reuse King Cailan's armor pattern and in the one video from not too long ago, Hawke was in what almost looked like Warden commander armor. And then in the video in German from today, if you watch the last bit with the guy talking about a lost ship, he's pretty much wearing Alistair's default armor.

The armor will be tweaked, but I highly, highly, highly doubt BioWare is putting in the work to give random NPCs unique bodies, any more than they did in Origins.

KennethAFTopp wrote...t.
Most thoughts I've had can be summarized either as "Meh" or "Wtf?!"

I feel pretty much the same- there is surely some stuff like the rivalry system and the story which I'm looking forward to, but so much else is pretty disappointing or just baffling. As one of the Kotaku stories about DA2 mentioned, I'm just getting a weird vibe from this game: Its like a movie sequel that has a different director that takes it in a totally different direction than the first, to the point where it seems totally unrelated. Or namely, DA2 doesn't seem like how I'd envision a sequel, but rather seems more like a reboot.

[the_one_54321]

Brockololly wrote...
but I highly, highly, highly doubt BioWare is putting in the work to give random NPCs unique bodies, any more than they did in Origins.

Well obviously not, but there hasn't been anything to make us think that they are all going to be cookie-cutter NPCs. Even the NPCs in DA:O had some degree of individuality and other games have shown really unique NPCs.

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...
Well, we have seen some armors that reuse King Cailan's armor pattern and in the one video from not too long ago, Hawke was in what almost looked like Warden commander armor. And then in the video in German from today, if you watch the last bit with the guy talking about a lost ship, he's pretty much wearing Alistair's default armor.

The armor will be tweaked, but I highly, highly, highly doubt BioWare is putting in the work to give random NPCs unique bodies, any more than they did in Origins.

ME2 did the same with armour, for non-Shepards. I think Hawke will get some unique armours compared to DA:O, but I fully expect our mooks to be styling mook gear from DA:O.

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...
I feel pretty much the same- there is surely some stuff like the rivalry system and the story which I'm looking forward to, but so much else is pretty disappointing or just baffling. As one of the Kotaku stories about DA2 mentioned, I'm just getting a weird vibe from this game: Its like a movie sequel that has a different director that takes it in a totally different direction than the first, to the point where it seems totally unrelated. Or namely, DA2 doesn't seem like how I'd envision a sequel, but rather seems more like a reboot.

Well, one big thing to ask is, would Bioware in 2009 have actually started to make a game like Origins? I think to an extent DA:O was a throwback because it was a project far more consistent with what Bioware did in design when it was started than we it ended, and that the features Bioware wants to push are those it pioneered with ME.

[AlanC9]

ViSeirA wrote...

Logic says so, They didn't have enough time OR budget to create more than one unique outfit for your companions, do you really think they'll create lots of NPC body types and armor that it makes them very variable you wouldn't notice the similarities? 

At the risk of personalizing this, you should remember what happened the last time you followed logic based on faulty premises. Back in the Tactics thread, you managed to be wrong about... well, pretty much everything about the system.

In Exile's liable to give you a serious beating if you keep this up.

[Brockololly]

In Exile wrote...
Well, one big thing to ask is, would Bioware in 2009 have actually started to make a game like Origins? I think to an extent DA:O was a throwback because it was a project far more consistent with what Bioware did in design when it was started than we it ended, and that the features Bioware wants to push are those it pioneered with ME.

No, I agree with that- I could conjure up the EA monster, since Origins was the last game BIoWare put out that was started before they were assimilated by EA.

But for whatever reason, I think its a damn shame BioWare is seemingly just using Dragon Age 2 to mimic and iterate off of the systems created for Mass Effect and not Origins. At least design wise and presentation wise it seems that way. And surely you'll have people happy about that, but as Zeschuk and Muzyka have said in past interviews, the audiences between ME and DAO are different audiences. Its the homogenization of the 2 series thats most disappointing to me, especially given how well Orgins did, both critically and commerically.

Modifié par Brockololly, 09 novembre 2010 - 11:43 .

[the_one_54321]

Brockololly wrote...
just using Dragon Age 2 to mimic and iterate off of the systems created for Mass Effect and not Origins. At least design wise and presentation wise it seems that way.

What?!
Why do people keep saying this!? <_<

Pause.
Top-down camera.
"Auto-attack."
Interactive inventory.
Weapon equip and interchange.
Accessory gear.
Armor customization.
Tactics system.
Party control during combat.
Click-to-move.

Changing the animations and locking companion armor does not a DragonEffect make.

[Axekix]

I hadn't heard about this... this is pretty disappointing.

[Images]

My own two cents?



I LIKE spending endless ammounts of time tweaking my party member's inventories. I'm an RPG gamer for crying out loud. I love ME2 and I mean a lot...but I like keeping my medieval stylee stuff old school.



Oh well, what can you do? *shrug*



It'll still rock, just wished this Baldur's Gate spiritual successor franchise stuff panned out a bit more.

[the_one_54321]

Images wrote...
I LIKE spending endless ammounts of time tweaking my party member's inventories.

You can still do that. They just won't look different afterward.

[Ziggeh]

Brockololly wrote...

But for whatever reason, I think its a damn shame BioWare is seemingly just using Dragon Age 2 to mimic and iterate off of the systems created for Mass Effect and not Origins.

You might not see them as such, but from a design perspective Dragon Age had quite a few problems, especially as a cross platform title. And so they looked at those problems and how to go about solving them and went "you know what, we've already had this conversation". They're "mimicking" solutions they now that work, why would they do anything else?

[Ziggeh]

Images wrote...
It'll still rock, just wished this Baldur's Gate spiritual successor franchise stuff panned out a bit more.

They could make it a rhythm action game and claim it retains the spirit. It's a terribly poor standard to try and hold it to, it can mean anything you like.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 09 novembre 2010 - 11:57 .

[Images]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Images wrote...
I LIKE spending endless ammounts of time tweaking my party member's inventories.

You can still do that. They just won't look different afterward.

Yes and that was part of the point of doing it!

[joriandrake]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Images wrote...
I LIKE spending endless ammounts of time tweaking my party member's inventories.

You can still do that. They just won't look different afterward.

This is pretty bad in my opinion, its one of the things what I didn't like in ME2 neither.The fears and complains of people which got ignored or laughed at since the announcement of DA2 by hardcore Bio fans become more and more true sadly.

[crimzontearz]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
just using Dragon Age 2 to mimic and iterate off of the systems created for Mass Effect and not Origins. At least design wise and presentation wise it seems that way.

What?!
Why do people keep saying this!? <_<

Pause.
Top-down camera.
"Auto-attack."
Interactive inventory.
Weapon equip and interchange.
Accessory gear.
Armor customization.
Tactics system.
Party control during combat.
Click-to-move.

Changing the animations and locking companion armor does not a DragonEffect make.

Voiced protagonist
Forced race selection
Static outfits for companion
Unique talent trees for companions
Dialogue wheel with paraphrasing
Shorter game compared to DAO


Not saying all this is bad just saying it is obviously steering toward ME2

Now hopefully they will keep the ONE feature worth keeping the most in ME2...NG+

[Brockololly]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
just using Dragon Age 2 to mimic and iterate off of the systems created for Mass Effect and not Origins. At least design wise and presentation wise it seems that way.

What?!
Why do people keep saying this!? <_<

Pause.
Top-down camera.
"Auto-attack."
Interactive inventory.
Weapon equip and interchange.
Accessory gear.
Armor customization.
Tactics system.
Party control during combat.
Click-to-move.

Changing the animations and locking companion armor does not a DragonEffect make.

Well, I'm primarily looking at the dialogue system, which for me, I greatly, greatly enjoy the full text/silent PC route as opposed to the paraphrase/wheel route. That worked for ME, but I'd hate to see every BioWare game go with the same "cinematic" presentation instead of trying new things, or , old things that just haven;t been done in so long that they might as well be new.

When I think Dragon Effect, thats mostly what I'm thinking of. You add in the console focus and that furthers my perception that the overall design focus of DA2 is more in line with the simplifying/streamlining/making more "accesible" focus which you had from ME1 to ME2. Add on to that ME2's lackluster PC port, plus how mediocre Awakening and much of the DLC was, and thats my basis for concern. Calling it "Dragon Effect" is just an easy and over simplified way to sum up my distaste/concerns/fears for how DA2 is shaping up. If BIoWare wants to use loaded marketing buzzwords, I can do the same.


All the things you mentioned do seem to still be there to some extent ,just under a really gaudy and off putting coat of paint-  but I'll believe it when I see it on the PC.

[Brockololly]

ziggehunderslash wrote...
 They're "mimicking" solutions they now that work, why would they do anything else?

Because what works for a fast paced , twitch third person shooter with very light customization and quick dialogue doesn't necessarily translate well to a decidely more methodical, tactical RPG franchise with slow burning quest arcs in a game that lasted about twice as long as ME2.

Its the same reason you end up with crappy PC ports of console games- what works on platform doesn't always work on another. So unless they're radically changing the genre of DA2 from what it was in Origins it would be myopic of BioWare to largely copy/paste ME style changes into DA2 and call it a day, when they've said in the past that the audiences for the 2 franchises are different.

[soteria]

AlanC9 wrote...

I can't decide if this is all a massive thread derail or a vast improvement.

Improvement. What I can't decide is if whether to laugh or facepalm at the people who took him seriously.

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

You can still do that. They just won't look different afterward.

We also don't know to what extent it will make any statistical difference.

Can we put Isabela in gear that approximates heavy armour?  if she were a DAO companion we could.

Brockololly wrote...

I could conjure up the EA monster, since Origins was the last game BIoWare put out that was started before they were assimilated by EA.

And that would be specious, as ME was started well after DAO was, but contained many of the DA2 features.  And ME was also released pre-EA.

[joriandrake]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

You can still do that. They just won't look different afterward.

We also don't know to what extent it will make any statistical difference.

Can we put Isabela in gear that approximates heavy armour?  if she were a DAO companion we could.

Brockololly wrote...

I could conjure up the EA monster, since Origins was the last game BIoWare put out that was started before they were assimilated by EA.

And that would be specious, as ME was started well after DAO was, but contained many of the DA2 features.  And ME was also released pre-EA.

but not ME2

[Sylvius the Mad]

No, but the features in DA2 I dislike mostly arose in ME, not ME2.

I don't see much difference between ME and ME2. The biggest difference (for me) was the loss of stat-driven aiming, but DA2 still has that.

[Ziggeh]

Brockololly wrote...
Because what works for a fast paced , twitch third person shooter with very light customization and quick dialogue doesn't necessarily translate well to a decidely more methodical, tactical RPG franchise with slow burning quest arcs in a game that lasted about twice as long as ME2.

Perhaps, but I can't think of anything they're using that seems largely out of place, example? It seems a little less grey, but that's a bit picky of me. I can think of a lot of things that make it "feel" a little less like an old school rpg, but I don't think tradition alone is a reason to do anything.

A classical rpg inventory system gives you two things: A fairly obtuse manner of gaining resources and a well divided system of progression and reward. The first, well, nuts to the first frankly. I don't enjoy repetitive tasks with small gains (nuts to mining planets too), I once had a job in data entry and I've had quite enough of that. The second is a lot more complex, but it really doesn't look a lot less divided in DA2 than Origins. You get a  few less slots right? It's not like those boots were doing much anyhow.

Brockololly wrote... So unless they're radically changing the genre of DA2 from what it was in Origins it would be myopic of BioWare to largely copy/paste ME style changes into DA2 and call it a day

Again, similar problems with similar solutions. Does not equal Quanari In Space.

[Siven80]

For what its worth I like that the companions have a unique outfit. It keeps them in
character and the fact you can upgrade them with dropped and bought
parts is a good improvement. I just hope the actual armor gfx change
slightly to show the upgrades and/or change over time.

The fact that you can still add accessories and weapons to them is great.

That they have their own specialized talent tree is great.

Pretty much all the companion changes ive read/heard about i agree with because I believe its an improvement on DAO in that our companions keep their own identity and character rather than us (Hawke) making them into "generic rogue #2".

The
ME2 companion system was ok but had so much untapped potential that it
looks like DA2 is going to take some advantage of.
It's not to everyones
taste but thats life and you cant please everyone.
It seems to me
that BW want their companions to have their own character while keeping a
degree of customization, and i applaud them for it.

2 Thumbs up BioWare ../../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png