[quote]soteria wrote...
I'd counter that by saying cutscenes provide evidence to the contrary. You're biased against accepting them as equally authoritative because you don't like them. See, from where I'm sitting, cutscenes tell us how things really are (or appear to be to a normal observer), and gameplay is the way it is because it's fun--not because the world actually works that way. [/quote]
I do this because cutscenes are still a fairly new development, and because they disagree with the rules of the setting I'm discounting them as badly done. One day, hopefully, they'll be better and this problem will go away.
[quote]In Exile wrote...
The rules
aren't applied sensically. This is a basic fact fo the game.[/quote]
And
that's the problem that needs fixing. Assuming this metaphysical dichotomy creates a barrier to fixing the actual problem with the game, because it allows it to persist.
[quote]But we are debating precisely these cRPG games I have been exposed to. I am not making some claim about the set of all games that include HP. I am only making a claim about the set of cRPGs which include HP, and these games most certainly do have a metaphysical distinction. There is nothing wrong with making a general claim about a subset.[/quote]
I think the existence of a metaphysical dichotomy like the one you describe would make the game unplayably bad.
[quote]Only if you turn of every dialogue scene in the game. As I said: characters do not behave as if the game rules are the physical rules of the world whenever they are shown to engange in any sort of behaviour.
Not in the least. Here is the best example: when you meet Brother Gentivi he is tortured and injured. This is simply
impossible based on the rules which are accesible to you via combat.[/quote]
But that's not true. Nothing in the rules prohibits persistent injuries (in fact, the rules of combat actually include such things - all that would be required is that Genitivi's torture reduce him to 0 hit points). The rules also contain no exhaustive list of the possible injuries arising from unconsciousness, so the effects he describes could well be the result of one or more persistent injuries.
And even that ignores the possibility of other types of injuries to which the party is never subjected.
Your reasoning is akin to believing that the characters never eat because the rules don't describe eating. When in fact, all this tells us is that the rules of eating in Thedas aren't being described to us.
[quote]There is
nothing to even meaningfully convey the notion that pain is a possible experience and Gentivi experiences it, including incapacitation of movement or discomfort requiring the help of the third party.[/quote]
Nor is there anything to suggest that it is impossible.
You keep assuming an excluded middle. This is a common problem for you.
The absence of evidence for a phenomenon is not itself evidence of the absence of that phenomenon. Or, as Bertrand Russell might put it, there might be a rhinoceros in the room.
[quote]Moreover, you've already acknowledged that the physical rules of the cut-scene contradict the rules of the game. You made this claim yourself, and argued the cut-scene was eliminated. You've already granted my
distinction. You are inconsistent on this point.[/quote]
What is portrayed in the cutscene appears to be inconsistent with the rules of the setting, yes. However, it's anecdotal evidence. We can't draw meaningful conclusions from it. The rules of gameplay, however, are
testable. And some of them are even documented.
[quote]Actually, I found resurrection magic the best implemented "game" and "story" overlap mechanic, because the people of the world
actually recognized it as a kind of real physical thing happening in their world.[/quote]
It should have produced a very different perception of death generally within the culture, but that was never portrayed.
Much like my assertions that the materials listed for the armour in DAO must be fairly similar to real world materials, because the architecture of DAO is very similar to real world archtecture. If they had relevantly different materials technology, that would manifest in differet uses of that technology.
[quote]I was speaking about KoTOR - that your character does not go insane after the plot twist is something required by the plot.[/quote]
Arguably.
Though I don't see why he would.
[quote]Here is your baseless conclusion: that the combat rules are representative of the rules of nature. Why do you assume this. What
grounds do you have to claim that
these rules are the laws of nature, and not some other rules?[/quote]
Because the rules of combat do govern combat, which is an aspect of nature. So we know those rules exist.
[quote]We certainly have clear evidence that the characters in the game behave as if these are
not the physical rules of their setting whenever they have a chance to show their behaviour.[/quote]
Is combat not such an opportunity? I see characters engaging in combat throughout the game, and they seem to act very much as if the rules of combat apply there.
[quote]As I said, the best example is that the Grey Warden military strategy (and Loghain and Cailan's strategy) seems to completely ignore the rules of their setting.[/quote]
The only Wardens we meet in the game are Duncan (who is a high level) and Alistair (who is new). Who is to say they don't routinely grind to level 25?
Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 12 novembre 2010 - 11:01 .
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