861 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

No. I think its ridiculous. I hated it in ME2 and I'll hate it in DA2.



...Then again I'm playing on PC so hopefully they'll be new armr meshes if I'm lucky and I won't have to sigh over ridiculous outfits.

[tmp7704]

Dave of Canada wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

To play devil's advocate, why would they want to give Carver different attire from what he's already sporting? It is certainly unique and iconic, and so it achieves the very purpose of these outfits.

Looks more like a refugee / farmer uniform rather than a fighter, though.

And as such it reflects Carver's nature, just like Isabela's outfit screams "i'm a pirate, yo". It's also definitely unlike outfit of any actual refugee/farmer you meet in DAO.

[Kleli]

ME2 is a great game that was very well recieved so it's no suprise that the Dragon Age team is taking things from that game and put it into DA2. However the things that most people didn't like about ME2 was the inventory system (or the lack of it) and the inability to customize your companions. So I can't really understand why it is those things that BioWare choose to copy. Soon they'll probably announce the DA2 version of planet scanning....

[Revan312]

In Exile wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
Yes, that much is granted. However that brings us back to different way this situation can be looked at -- the designers already spent resources on making unique companion meshes and meshes for generic NPC, and one would hope that these "generic NPC meshes" are somewhat varied, more than in DAO given the feedback from the first game. Allowing then the companions to equip these generic NPC meshes allows to achieve some degree of that coveted ability to customize appearance of the companions, without significant additional investment of resources beyond what was already spent.

It isn't that simple. You may be fine with aesthetically poor graphical mishmash, but the critical reception would be unforgiving. Bioware can't afford a AAA release with stopgaps. If NPCs can equip other armour, they need to make sure that armour is high quality. That's part of the cost, IMO.

I agree in principle it can be done your way if you're willing to make such a large concession, but the problem is that in practice the cost is too high to simply do it that way.

How would the ability to equip other meshes be a concession? How would more customization garner bad press? You boggle my mind sometimes Exile, Bioware could tell us that hawke will be replaced with the model and voice of Banjo Kazooie and you would somehow find a way to justify it..

In all seriousness, I don't mind the fact that companions have unique outfits, I just hope that they don't have to stay in those outfits indefinately (this includes recolors) as that will just be boring. If each one had say 3 - 5 unique outfit meshes than my fears would be put to rest.

If Bioware releases the toolset (10% chance of that at this point, yay for DLC appearance packs ) Then I really won't mind as I'll just spend time modding and retexturing the companions as I see fit, so, hint hint Bioware..

[Revan312]

Kleli wrote...

Soon they'll probably announce the DA2 version of planet scanning....

Hehe, mountain scanning is a must..

"Magical probe away"

[Dave of Canada]

tmp7704 wrote...

And as such it reflects Carver's nature, just like Isabela's outfit screams "i'm a pirate, yo".

Isabela doesn't stop being a pirate, though.

[Quercus]

Revan312 wrote...

Kleli wrote...

Soon they'll probably announce the DA2 version of planet scanning....

Hehe, mountain scanning is a must..

"Magical probe away"

Lets see if I can gather 40000 Lerium this way >=3.

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

It isn't that simple. You may be fine with aesthetically poor graphical mishmash, but the critical reception would be unforgiving. Bioware can't afford a AAA release with stopgaps. If NPCs can equip other armour, they need to make sure that armour is high quality. That's part of the cost, IMO.

I'm not sure where you get the poor graphical mishmash from, though. Since it is AAA title, the outfits of regular NPCs have to be high quality to begin with, too. Otherwise the critical reception is equally unforgiving. They can't phone it in, not when these NPCs appear on the player's screen permanently and in large numbers. Especially when the main character is actually allowed to equip these items. Good enough for the player but not for the followers? That doesn't make much sense.

[Saibh]

Dave of Canada wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

And as such it reflects Carver's nature, just like Isabela's outfit screams "i'm a pirate, yo".

Isabela doesn't stop being a pirate, though.

Personally, I'm going to joy tormenting him as ManHawke. "Ha ha ha loser little brother I bet you can't swing a sword like mine what's that you don't have any half-naked pirate wenches on your arm ha ha loser."

Modifié par Saibh, 08 novembre 2010 - 08:43 .

[tmp7704]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Isabela doesn't stop being a pirate, though.

She's as much still a pirate as Carver is still a refugee. One could also argue with her ship destroyed she isn't technically much of a pirate, not any more than Carver is a farmer.

Modifié par tmp7704, 08 novembre 2010 - 08:46 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

Saibh wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

And as such it reflects Carver's nature, just like Isabela's outfit screams "i'm a pirate, yo".

Isabela doesn't stop being a pirate, though.

Personally, I'm going to joy tormenting him as ManHawke. "Ha ha ha loser little brother I bet you can't swing a sword like mine what's that you don't have any half-naked pirate wenches on your arm ha ha loser."

Um, you know, brothers don't do that to each other. Maybe sisters do, but brothers, no.

*runs like hell*

[Revan312]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Um, you know, brothers don't do that to each other. Maybe sisters do, but brothers, no.

*runs like hell*

Tell that to me and my brother, we slam each other all the time..

[Ortaya Alevli]

Revan312 wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Um, you know, brothers don't do that to each other. Maybe sisters do, but brothers, no.

*runs like hell*

Tell that to me and my brother, we slam each other all the time..

What? I can't hear you, I'm running past the hills!

[In Exile]

tmp7704 wrote...
I'm not sure where you get the poor graphical mishmash from, though. Since it is AAA title, the outfits of regular NPCs have to be high quality to begin with, too. Otherwise the critical reception is equally unforgiving. They can't phone it in, not when these NPCs appear on the player's screen permanently and in large numbers.

In DA:O, everyone used the same equipment. They had something like 7 rigs for each race, but then enemies just got the same models the PC did. There were no unique looks. In a game like ME2, where there are unique rigs for higher end characters, you essentially invest less resources in 'mook' gear. It's of lower quality. But it's accept that it's lower quality, generally speaking, because they're just generic mooks.

If there was a huge drop off in quality from the custom mesh of the NPC to the generic armour (like altering the body type of the of Morrigan from her equipment to her naked body) that would cause complaints.

Especially when the main character is actually allowed to equip these items. Good enough for the player but not for the followers? That doesn't make much sense.

Let's say we have DA2 in our hand. Our party is Hawke/Elf/Dwarf/Qunari. The Elf/Dwarf/Qunari band couldn't equip the default human armour, even Hawke's rig, because they have their own unique race rig if not a unique model rig. I believe DA:O handled this by having a unique armour model for each race. You can see this when you look at how armour for certain races is missing certain parts.

This is another cost. Not all races would have access to all armour in your case, and some armour would be noticeably subpar.

All of which would be cause for criticism in AAA release.

Modifié par In Exile, 08 novembre 2010 - 09:15 .

[Dave of Canada]

Revan312 wrote...
Tell that to me and my brother, we slam each other all the time..

I read "slam" the wrong way.

I have a dirty mind, help me.

[In Exile]

Revan312 wrote...
How would the ability to equip other meshes be a concession? How would more customization garner bad press? You boggle my mind sometimes Exile, Bioware could tell us that hawke will be replaced with the model and voice of Banjo Kazooie and you would somehow find a way to justify it..

tmp and I had a debate earlier in another thread on customizing NPCs. A concession in that context meant that he would be willing to allow for an entire custom rig and potential body distortions, if only he could get customizability in return.

That being said, customization garners bad press when it's lazy. Let's say you had the option to remove armour (naked in the granny panties!) but Bioware never bothered to alter skin colour for the body. So you have a black character, but the model from the neck down is white. And despite being muscular and ripped in all the armour, the naked version has you much less muscular with a pot belly, because that's the only naked rig designed.

This is how customization is bad -when it doesn't have AAA resources allocated. The debate between tmp and myself partly relates to how acceptable disortions like the above are.

In all seriousness, I don't mind the fact that companions have unique outfits, I just hope that they don't have to stay in those outfits indefinately (this includes recolors) as that will just be boring. If each one had say 3 - 5 unique outfit meshes than my fears would be put to rest.

They very likely will. Mike Laidlaw said changing apperance is an exception not a rule.

If Bioware releases the toolset (10% chance of that at this point, yay for DLC appearance packs ) Then I really won't mind as I'll just spend time modding and retexturing the companions as I see fit, so, hint hint Bioware..

Someone has to buy DLC. I can't understand for the life of me why, but someone does. I marginally get the allure of content DLC like Witch Hunt or Lair of the Shadow Broker. But horse armour DLC just confuses the hell out of me.

[AlanC9]

tmp7704 wrote...

And as such it reflects Carver's nature, just like Isabela's outfit screams "i'm a pirate, yo". It's also definitely unlike outfit of any actual refugee/farmer you meet in DAO.

Considering we've had a complete graphics overhaul and a new art style, it would be kind of shocking if Carver's outfit looked exactly like anything in DAO.

As for approximations, I don't see how his outfit is all that different from what we saw in DAO in Lothering. Then again, such matters don't particularly interest me, so someone would have to look pretty bizarre for me to pick it up.

Modifié par AlanC9, 08 novembre 2010 - 09:37 .

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

In DA:O, everyone used the same equipment. They had something like 7 rigs for each race, but then enemies just got the same models the PC did. There were no unique looks. In a game like ME2, where there are unique rigs for higher end characters, you essentially invest less resources in 'mook' gear. It's of lower quality. But it's accept that it's lower quality, generally speaking, because they're just generic mooks.

I'd actually disagree with the lower quality part -- you can have Shepard in ME2 equip some of the "mook clothes" as non-combat outfit. I didn't find her to look noticeably worse from the usual, nor i think there was much complaints about it.

There is of course the "it's not unique" aspect but that's by the very nature of the gear -- it's not unique because others wear it as well. If all human characters wore Shepard's armour instead, it would turn that armour into a "not unique" equipment. Same for the gear of other races, quality-wise none of it struck me as particularly inferior.

(in fact, the only thing that bugged me about armours in ME2 quality-wise to the point i'd actually notice and remember it ... was the awful pixellation on Garrus' armour collar. so there'd go the argument of companion gear being of higher quality)

Let's say we have DA2 in our hand. Our party is Hawke/Elf/Dwarf/Qunari. The Elf/Dwarf/Qunari band couldn't equip the default human armour, even Hawke's rig, because they have their own unique race rig if not a unique model rig. I believe DA:O handled this by having a unique armour model for each race. You can see this when you look at how armour for certain races is missing certain parts.

This is another cost. Not all races would have access to all armour in your case, and some armour would be noticeably subpar.

Well, some armour being subpar is debatable due to above argument -- as i understand it you're implying that armour for races other than human is going to be of lesser quality because Hawke only equips the human versions of the armour, but i really don't expect the difference to be very noticeable.

Some armours being only possible to equip by some races can be a drawback for some, but on the other hand it can be an actual feature for others, because it enhances their sense of realism that armours don't automagically scale with "one size fit all". In either case being able to equip some additional armour is still a step up from being limited just to the particular companion's appearance, so i'd still find it a preferable route over the more limited alternative.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Revan312 wrote...
Tell that to me and my brother, we slam each other all the time..

I read "slam" the wrong way.

I have a dirty mind, help me.

Dave, you win the 'best post on the forum today' award. 

Maybe Carver will update his outfit at some point? 

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...
Let's say we have DA2 in our hand. Our party is Hawke/Elf/Dwarf/Qunari. The Elf/Dwarf/Qunari band couldn't equip the default human armour, even Hawke's rig, because they have their own unique race rig if not a unique model rig. I believe DA:O handled this by having a unique armour model for each race. You can see this when you look at how armour for certain races is missing certain parts. 

I'd add that having one-size-fits-all gear is already a huge concession for anyone who wants more realism in the equipment. Even without graphics issues, I'd be just fine with all gear being limited by race and even by sex.

Note that ME1 effectively did this, since between class, race, and sex restrictions they didn't need that many models.

[Revan312]

Yellow Words wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Revan312 wrote...
Tell that to me and my brother, we slam each other all the time..

I read "slam" the wrong way.

I have a dirty mind, help me.

Dave, you win the 'best post on the forum today' award. 

Maybe Carver will update his outfit at some point? 

I'm back from my cold shower after reading that..

Insult, god I wish I would have said insult..

On second thought, I'm gonna take another cold shower...

[tmp7704]

AlanC9 wrote...

Considering we've had a complete graphics overhaul and a new art style, it would be kind of shocking if Carver's outfit looked exactly like anything in DAO.

It wouldn't shock me, considering mama Hawke's peasant outfit varies very little from the DAO peasant outfits

(and how Bethany's mage robe is a tweaked reskin of DAO mage robes and how Isabela's outfit is essentially a tweaked reskin of chasind robes, how rogue Hawke's armour is still about the same in overall form etc. They do overhaul the graphics but it doesn't mean they strive to reinvent every single wheel for the sake of reinventing it, some seems to be deemed round enough as they are. Carver's appearance is actually quite more different in form, in comparison. There was some serious thought put into these suspenders and dog cone)

[Ortaya Alevli]

Unique outfits will allow everyone to have different figures. That's cool. Wynne and Morrigan looked exactly the same way in Chasind robes. Only good considering it led to numerous funny jokes.

What I'd like to see is multiple companion-specific outfits available for purchase. Or loot, whenever it makes sense. Maybe during the course of a companion quest, similar to the way female Shepard got her evening dress from Kasumi DLC. DA2 wouldn't be the first game to have its characters wear the same outfit throughout the game, but if it actually included additional outfits, that'd be great.

EDIT: I suck at formatting text.

Modifié par Ortaya Alevli, 08 novembre 2010 - 10:00 .

[tmp7704]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Unique outfits will allow everyone to have different figures.

Potentially, yes. In practice it doesn't appear to be used much though, at least for the characters we got to see so far. Carver doesn't seem to have build any different from male Hawke. (and any generic male opponent) Bethany and mama Hawke could quite easily swap their clothes without anyone noticing, if they weren't glued onto them. Isabela may have bit wider hips but without having her and Bethany side by side it's pretty hard to tell for sure.

Modifié par tmp7704, 08 novembre 2010 - 10:17 .

[Malanek]

I'm OK with it. The only downside is that it will downgrade the opportunities to get creative with party builds. On the plus side the companions should all look better with less effort from the developers. They may even have some long hair. Also you won't have to worry about keeping your companions, who you don't use, geared up. When you get to Denrim and find Liliana still has a dagger and chantry robes it can get a bit frustrating.