245 réponses à ce sujet

[Sol Nox]

Ninja'd by Maria. It's the fem equivalent to Mr.  Unlike "Miss" and "Mrs".
Twice. Clearly it's too early for me.

Modifié par ColeMR, 08 novembre 2010 - 03:52 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Personally I'd be pleased if they incorporated more of that information into the actual game than huge text-based info-dumps. This also creates less of a QA issue, because occasionally the text didn't match up perfectly with the game. (The worst offender I noticed was if you read the flavor text on Asala--it says the Arishok gave it to Sten as part of the spoils of war shortly before he went on this mission, but if you talk to STEN, he says it was MADE for him and he's carried it for YEARS. WHOOPS.)



There's very little information in the codex that you can't infer by paying attention to the game, anyway. I think the only "new" pieces of info I got from reading the codex was that there are only 7 old gods and something vague about the Riviani seers. The codex entries are usually worded in such a way as to be only semi-informative, anyway, and you don't need to know the stuff that's put in about other setting areas you never see. Worse, this puts in a huge risk that something the writers are doing NOW contradicts these earlier entries. I'd rather have consistent lore than a big jumbled mess.



This is a personal preference based on the fact that I consider the info-dump to be poor writing, however, on par with the trope "As you know, Bob . . ." or, as Terry Pratchett would put it, "As you know, your father, the king . . ."

[Maconbar]

Mary Kirby wrote...

shepard_lives wrote...

It's going to consist entirely of anagrams.

I am personally hoping that each codex entry is one of those sliding puzzles, and you have to shuffle squares of text around to form the entry before you can read it.

Well there is a group that has been asking for DA:2 to use more puzzles.

[In Exile]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Personally I'd be pleased if they incorporated more of that information into the actual game than huge text-based info-dumps. This also creates less of a QA issue, because occasionally the text didn't match up perfectly with the game. (The worst offender I noticed was if you read the flavor text on Asala--it says the Arishok gave it to Sten as part of the spoils of war shortly before he went on this mission, but if you talk to STEN, he says it was MADE for him and he's carried it for YEARS. WHOOPS.)

I asked about this after ME. The answer I got was that it comes down to a design resource issue. The developers want to show at not tell, but there is only so much they can show and not tell without it either breaking down into having characters just parrot information at you (if it is done as dialogue) or costing too much to implement in the game. When I asked why it wasn't just kept as Q&A dialogue, the answer was the VO opportunity cost.

[Maria Caliban]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

This is a personal preference based on the fact that I consider the info-dump to be poor writing, however, on par with the trope "As you know, Bob . . ." or, as Terry Pratchett would put it, "As you know, your father, the king . . ."

It's not an info-dump as it doesn't happen within the narrative. It's more akin to a large appendix at the back of a book.

[Sakawatchi]

Mary Kirby wrote...

shepard_lives wrote...

It's going to consist entirely of anagrams.

I am personally hoping that each codex entry is one of those sliding puzzles, and you have to shuffle squares of text around to form the entry before you can read it.

Shoot. I was hoping for a randomized codex where the entries would be numbered but the info randomly shuffled around. That way you would have to guess which entry that contained the new info. And when you wanted to re-check something as well.

[Leonia]

It reminds me of the appendix with Lord of the Rings, lots of juicy info to mull over and make you go "Oh that's what those people are like and why they think so and so and hey look at their language!"



I'm secretly hoping for more Dalish words to be revealed in DA 2.

[PsychoBlonde]

In Exile wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Personally I'd be pleased if they incorporated more of that information into the actual game than huge text-based info-dumps. This also creates less of a QA issue, because occasionally the text didn't match up perfectly with the game. (The worst offender I noticed was if you read the flavor text on Asala--it says the Arishok gave it to Sten as part of the spoils of war shortly before he went on this mission, but if you talk to STEN, he says it was MADE for him and he's carried it for YEARS. WHOOPS.)

I asked about this after ME. The answer I got was that it comes down to a design resource issue. The developers want to show at not tell, but there is only so much they can show and not tell without it either breaking down into having characters just parrot information at you (if it is done as dialogue) or costing too much to implement in the game. When I asked why it wasn't just kept as Q&A dialogue, the answer was the VO opportunity cost.

There's no resources issue because you don't have to have the people just PARROT the info.  You learn EVERYTHING there is in the codex entries on the Qunari just by talking to Sten and evaluating his character yourself.  (Granted, you may not have it concretized in your mind the way it is in the codex entries, but all the evidence is there.)  A LOT of information is conveyed through proper characterization.

They also have the opportunity (sadly neglected in ME) to have the main character deliver a lot of the information the PC needs, which cuts your VO requirements IN HALF.  I was talking about this way back before DA:O came out.  Look at the difference between these two sample exchanges:

NPC: I'm on a quest to discover the location of the Urn of Sacred Ashes.
PC: What's that?
NPC: According to legend, it is the final repository for the ashes of the prophet Andraste.
PC:  Whoa.  And what have you found?

versus:

NPC:  I'm on a quest to discover the location of the Urn of Sacred Ashes.
PC:  ANDRASTE'S Ashes?!  What have you found?

Same information.  Half as many lines.  And, as an extra-special bonus, the PC doesn't come across as an ignorant twit.  It's harder work and requires great cleverness and tight economy on the part of the writers, but given the spiralling costs of VO and development you'd think you would want to go this way even more.  Plus, the writing is a lot more engaging if you DON'T spell everything out.  How many books have you read that started in medias res or otherwise with a lot of unexplained stuff that pulled you deep into the story because you wanted to find out what was going on?  This is good writing, to deliver information slowly and steadily so the reader/watcher/player feels as though they're gradually unveiling a strange and mysterious landscape.  Not a big wall of text slapped into a journal entry somewhere.

[upsettingshorts]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
(snip)

... it's an Appendix.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 novembre 2010 - 04:33 .

[Ulicus]

In Exile wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

I asked awhile ago and the answer was NO. 

That's good. Nothing more annoying that putting up with a narrator that speaks at 1/3rd the speed you read.

This.

I'm curious as to whether we're going to see any revised/updated entries. Not only ones that take choices made in Origins into account (I remember being disappointed by how little the ME2 codex updated), but also old entries that are brought up-to-date with the evolving Thedas canon. For example, the entry on Ferelden Nobility makes note that Arls have no Banns sworn to them. Yet we know this is no longer the case, thanks to Awakening.

Or maybe stuff like that entry simply won't be making an appearance at all, and they'll all be new. Though I imagine it'd be more efficient to add to what was already there.

Modifié par Ulicus, 08 novembre 2010 - 04:47 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...
(snip)

... it's an Appendix.

It doesn't matter where you put the info dump, whether it's tacked on the end or stuffed into the story itself, it's the same writing mistake.  Appendix, footnote, in-story essay.  Don't matter.

If your work needs an appendix, you need to stop world-building for the sake of world-building.  Appendices have no place in fiction.  And go read some Neal Stephenson.  His books contain an ENORMOUS amount of information, but none of it EVER feels like an info-dump because a.) it's integral to the story, and b.) he works it into what's going on IN the story.  Even his very longest informational segments are full of characterization, plot development, motorcycle chases, etc.  (Granted the purpose of some of his "anecdotal" segments in, say, Cryptonomicon isn't always apparent until you've read the book a couple of times.  He can be a bit obscure.)

The mantra of fiction writers should always be "If it ain't important, don't put it in.  (ANYWHERE.)  If it IS important, work it seamlessly into the totality."
  

[Fortlowe]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...
(snip)

... it's an Appendix.

It doesn't matter where you put the info dump, whether it's tacked on the end or stuffed into the story itself, it's the same writing mistake.  Appendix, footnote, in-story essay.  Don't matter.

If your work needs an appendix, you need to stop world-building for the sake of world-building.  Appendices have no place in fiction.  And go read some Neal Stephenson.  His books contain an ENORMOUS amount of information, but none of it EVER feels like an info-dump because a.) it's integral to the story, and b.) he works it into what's going on IN the story.  Even his very longest informational segments are full of characterization, plot development, motorcycle chases, etc.  (Granted the purpose of some of his "anecdotal" segments in, say, Cryptonomicon isn't always apparent until you've read the book a couple of times.  He can be a bit obscure.)

The mantra of fiction writers should always be "If it ain't important, don't put it in.  (ANYWHERE.)  If it IS important, work it seamlessly into the totality."
  

Tolkien would disagree.

[tmp7704]

Mary Kirby wrote...

I am personally hoping that each codex entry is one of those sliding puzzles, and you have to shuffle squares of text around to form the entry before you can read it.

"Professor Hawke and the Mysterious Lore Codex"

[upsettingshorts]

Fortlowe wrote...
Tolkien would disagree.

As would a host of other authors.  And a lot of readers, including myself.  So holding it up as a rule doesn't really make sense.

A preference, sure.  A rule?  No.  Heck, one of the most popular contemporary fiction authors doesn't even view punctuation as a rule.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 novembre 2010 - 04:53 .

[Ulicus]

punctuation whats that

[Saibh]

Ulicus wrote...

punctuation whats that

Same thing as canon.

[tmp7704]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

It doesn't matter where you put the info dump, whether it's tacked on the end or stuffed into the story itself, it's the same writing mistake.  Appendix, footnote, in-story essay.  Don't matter.

Optional information being optional doesn't need to be a mistake. If i'm interested in hereditary tree of House Dace 10 generations back then i can check it, without need to have it worked into the main story itself where odds are it wouldn't interest too many of the other readers.

[Maconbar]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...
(snip)

... it's an Appendix.

It doesn't matter where you put the info dump, whether it's tacked on the end or stuffed into the story itself, it's the same writing mistake.  Appendix, footnote, in-story essay.  Don't matter.

If your work needs an appendix, you need to stop world-building for the sake of world-building.  Appendices have no place in fiction.  And go read some Neal Stephenson.  His books contain an ENORMOUS amount of information, but none of it EVER feels like an info-dump because a.) it's integral to the story, and b.) he works it into what's going on IN the story.  Even his very longest informational segments are full of characterization, plot development, motorcycle chases, etc.  (Granted the purpose of some of his "anecdotal" segments in, say, Cryptonomicon isn't always apparent until you've read the book a couple of times.  He can be a bit obscure.)

The mantra of fiction writers should always be "If it ain't important, don't put it in.  (ANYWHERE.)  If it IS important, work it seamlessly into the totality."
  

I totally disagree with you. Appendices are nice place to put information that may be interesting to some of the readers but not necessary to the overall enjoyment of a fictional work.

[Leonia]

But world-building is great if you're writing a series of novels or plan to do more writing in that universe later. Sometimes it helps knowing the bigger picture first and then working out the details that will go along with it. Or, you know, just adding some extra flavour to make the world a bit more believable.



Do I need to know that codex entry for the nug stew recipe? Probably not. But it's kinda fun to know nugs can be stewed as well as kept as pets. And it makes me giggle whenever Leliana starts fawning over nugs.



I'm the kind of person who read every single book title in the Circle of Magi in Witch-hunt and thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Ulicus]

I agree with Matt Stover.

But, then, I'm a fanboy.

Warning, some bad language.

[Fortlowe]

An illustrated Codex would be special I think. I mean there's gotta be a lot of concept art to go with all this lore, and while I'm sure material like that would make an excellent 'The Art of Dragon Age II' hardcover book, that would sell like gangbusters, it would be awesome just to put it in the codex.

addendum: I can only buy so much videogame swag and still be somewhat consistently laid.

Modifié par Fortlowe, 08 novembre 2010 - 05:12 .

[Wyndham711]

I enjoyed the codex of Origins immensely, it was my favourite 'flavour' feature and I read every single codex entry I came across with care and enjoyement. I'm thrilled that it's coming back in its unvoiced form - hoping that there will be again be a lot of entries to find, and that there wont be repeats from the earlier game, like there were in ME2.

[upsettingshorts]

Ulicus wrote...

I agree with Matt Stover.

But, then, I'm a fanboy.

Who isn't?  Pro-Bowler and Super Bowl champion:



...that's who I thought of anyway.

[errant_knight]

I adored the codex. Read every word of it. Some of it was lol funny, other parts, utterly charming. And it was interesting to see what Brother Genetivi did before the Urn quest. My favorite story was the one about the Ptarmigan--perhaps because I;m Canadian.

[Gemini1179]

At least make it so that if we have a new entry, we are able to find it if the category is one that we need to scroll down through. It was very annoying trying to figure out which codex entry was new in the "Notes" and "Quest Items" and other categories in DAO where they were at the bottom of the screen. It's useless to have a new entry be highlighted and then canceled when scroll to it if you are never able to see that it was highlighted in the first place.



Does that make any sense? I always found that I was scrolling over a new entry and not knowing it because I couldn't see the whole list and which one was highlighted.



Perhaps if you have to actually acknowledge that it was read like in ME where it stayed highlighted even if you scrolled to it.