157 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

the_one_54321 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
My gameplay looked nothing like any of the footage shown.

But they said specfically that you still get a top down camera and pause and tactics. So unless they are flat out liars I don't see what there is to worry about in this video.

Some kind of tactical cam "is being worked on" but "it won't pull back as far as Origins" was the last official word on this I heard...
and, honestly, DA:O's tactical gameplay was far below what I would prefer, so making it less so for DA2 (and, for me, the tactical game pulled up and back for full battlefield view in a combat where I control a bunch of characters is a "must" for me)

There is a tactical camera in the PC version, which is similar to the one in Origins [1up Article]

Laidlaw demonstrates how that changes the
gameplay by taking me over to the PC situated in the corner, where he
takes a moment to demonstrate the new tactical camera before jumping
into battle. It's actually not all that different from the original
camera, though it sits at more of an angle this time around.

I need to see how it looks before I say if it's the same, better, or worse for me.

[Eleinehmm]

the_one_54321 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
For example companion's inventory is confirmed to be more MEtish.

People need to stop saying this because it's totally misleading even if not fully inaccurate. It is more like ME in that you can't change how the companion is dressed. It is no at all like ME in that you still have full control over customizing the stats of their gear, or actualy equiping and unequiping from an inventory menu. Plus it still retains a numerical focus, accesories and actual weapon equiping.

More MEtish !=  totaly like in ME

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 08 novembre 2010 - 10:08 .

[MerinTB]

the_one_54321 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
For example companion's inventory is confirmed to be more MEtish.

People need to stop saying this because it's totally misleading even if not fully inaccurate. It is more like ME in that you can't change how the companion is dressed. It is no at all like ME in that you still have full control over customizing the stats of their gear, or actualy equiping and unequiping from an inventory menu. Plus it still retains a numerical focus, accesories and actual weapon equiping.

Where are you quoting me saying that from?  It's not this thread...

EDIT - you are attributing a quote to me that was just in something someone else said, and you are even pulling it out of context for him.

Modifié par MerinTB, 08 novembre 2010 - 10:08 .

[the_one_54321]

Sorry, was meant to be Eleinehmm.

No, I didn't take it out of context. He was using that specific phrase as a technical qualifier for point he includes it in. As a technical qualifier it can't really be taken out of context.

Eleinehmm wrote...
ore MEtish !=  totaly like in ME

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I said. What you said isn't technically incorrect, but it's very misleading. To the point that it nearly is totally inaccurate. It implies things that are not true.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 08 novembre 2010 - 10:11 .

[MerinTB]

Again, comparing two things is not saying they are exactly the same.

It's like mistakenly attributing someone's comparison as a false analogy...
saying an orange is like an apple because both are fruit is RIGHT, even though an apple isn't the color orange.

Saying combat in ME2 is like combat in Gears of War due to the cover system is accurate, even though Gears of War doesn't have biotics.

the_one_54321 wrote...
No, I didn't take it out of context. He was using that specific
phrase as a technical qualifier for point he includes it in. As a
technical qualifier it can't really be taken out of context.

He was listing it as one reason why people dislike what they've seen of DA2, where you were quoting it from he wasn't even saying whether or not he personally agreed with that statement.

You cannot deny that people who have been hating on DA2 haven't been making all sorts of ME comparisons, including the inventory.

Modifié par MerinTB, 08 novembre 2010 - 10:13 .

[the_one_54321]

It's not a mistake. He is deliberately making a false analogy.

Eleinehmm wrote...

2) Afraid that the visuals is not the only thing that changed : For example companion's inventory is confirmed to be more MEtish

"Confirmed to be more MEtish" is technically true. Because of the way he uses it to qualify his statement about visuals it implies that this suggests the will be lacking in freedom the way ME2 is when in the very same confirmation he mentions it was specifically confirmed that we will have much more freedom than ME2 had.

[Eleinehmm]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sorry, was meant to be Eleinehmm.

No, I didn't take it out of context. He was using that specific phrase as a technical qualifier for point he includes it in. As a technical qualifier it can't really be taken out of context.

Eleinehmm wrote...
ore MEtish !=  totaly like in ME

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I said. What you said isn't technically incorrect, but it's very misleading. To the point that it nearly is totally inaccurate. It implies things that are not true.

She was using it as an example of the changes that are generally perceived as  MassEffectish

Implications are matters of personal interpretation -  Some people think that the visuals do indicate  the change, some  don't. All I say that  the visuals is not the only thing that changed and some people think that those artistic changes were made to accomodate the new gameplay.   I do not know if it's  true, yet.

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 08 novembre 2010 - 10:27 .

[MerinTB]

the_one_54321 wrote...

It's not a mistake. He is deliberately making a false analogy.

Eleinehmm wrote...
2) Afraid that the visuals is not the only thing that changed : For example companion's inventory is confirmed to be more MEtish

"Confirmed to be more MEtish" is technically true. Because of the way he uses it to qualify his statement about visuals it implies that this suggests the will be lacking in freedom the way ME2 is when in the very same confirmation he mentions it was specifically confirmed that we will have much more freedom than ME2 had.

"Afraid the visuals are not the only thing that changes"

He is saying that people, upon seeing the difference in the animation style / combat speed / visuals, are afraid that other things have changed and gave an example of another non-visual change.

Contextually that reads to me that people seeing one thing worry about others.  It's not an analogy of any kind as it isn't comparing two things.

?

EDIT - sorry, she

Modifié par MerinTB, 08 novembre 2010 - 10:23 .

[the_one_54321]

It is totally comparing two things. It compares visual changes to mechanical changes and it uses the example of companion inventory to do that. And this, while not strictly inaccurate, is using an example of confirmation wherein it is also specifically confirmed that the inventory system will be nothing like ME other than the visuals.



People are worried the game will play like ME.

This is because the visuals are confirmed to work like ME.

But in fact where the visual system is confirmed it is also confirmed that this aspect of the game will mostly play nothing like ME.

[Hellosanta]

People are worried that DA2 will be nothing like BGII.



I haven't played BGII, so I don't know what it is like (I'm fan of Bioware because of its recent games like DAO, ME series, and Jade Empire).

But according to many posts, the reason of outcry is like above.

[MerinTB]

the_one_54321 wrote...

It is totally comparing two things. It compares visual changes to mechanical changes and it uses the example of companion inventory to do that. And this, while not strictly inaccurate, is using an example of confirmation wherein it is also specifically confirmed that the inventory system will be nothing like ME other than the visuals.

People are worried the game will play like ME.
This is because the visuals are confirmed to work like ME.
But in fact where the visual system is confirmed it is also confirmed that this aspect of the game will mostly play nothing like ME.

No, she is not using an analogy.

I am about to by giving an example of a similar situation (what she did is LIKE the example I am about to give - i.e. I am giving an analogy)

"This restaurant employs waitresses in dirty uniforms who openly pick their noses.  I'm worried the cooks in the kitchen aren't hygenic either."

That statement is NOT comparing the waitresses to the cooks.  That statement is saying the restaurant is allowing one bad thing, it might be allowing other bad things.

To say "the visuals have changed, so I'm worried other things have changed like how inventory works" is NOT saying "visuals are like inventory" nor "visuals being changed is like inventory being changed" ... it's saying "they changed one thing, maybe they changed others."

You could well argue that A doesn't mean B.  And you'd be right.  Because I bought a new tv doesn't mean I also bought a new car.  Because they changed visuals doesn't mean they also changed inventory.

There's no direct causation between the two.

BUT...

it doesn't stop people from drawing connections where there are none.  It doesn't mean people do not see causation where none exists.

---

An analogy is comparing two things to emphasize a similarity between the two things.

Saying people "are worried that since the visuals are different the inventory system might be different" is not emphasizing a similarity between visuals and inventory systems.  It's saying "they changed one thing, they might change other things too since they were willing to change one."

---

But if you don't understand how it isn't an analogy, I can't help you any further than this.

[the_one_54321]

Alright I'm not going to argue the semantics of "analogy."

This still stands:

the_one_54321 wrote...

People are worried the game will play like ME.

This is because the visuals are confirmed to work like ME.

But in fact where the visual system is confirmed it is also confirmed that this aspect of the game will mostly play nothing like ME.

[In Exile]

MerinTB wrote...
For console gamers, probably.

For computer gamers who stayed down at over-the-shoulder camera level and barely ever paused (and tried kiting somewhat successfully), sure.

For computer gamers who pulled all the way back the camera view, and combat was a series of pause, orders, unpause, a few seconds passed, pause, orders, unpause, a few seconds passed... no, it looks NOTHING like DA:O.

My gameplay looked nothing like any of the footage shown.

But what if you are the unholy abberation that am I, who never used tactics (so I always had full party control & pause/play combat) i.e. order/pause/order/pause/order/pause (stupid lack of queqe) but used the over the shoulder camera because it was more tactical than isometric (depth perception >> top down view)?

What unholy nature of beast am I and what does that then say about the potential for DA2?

In the end, I suppose if a single feature like isometric camera is central to your experience, DA2 is an unforgivable trespass. To me, there is more than one thing that can make the game tactical, and the tactical nature is of the highest importance.

[Benzboysl500]

Probably not unless they are doing the iphone thing just happen to let some content leak

[Morroian]

Hellosanta wrote...

People are worried that DA2 will be nothing like BGII.

I haven't played BGII, so I don't know what it is like (I'm fan of Bioware because of its recent games like DAO, ME series, and Jade Empire).
But according to many posts, the reason of outcry is like above.

DAO was more like a fantasy Kotor with the addition of a tactical view than BG2.

[kr33g0r]

Just saw the video.... cancelling my pre-order. If I wanted to play God of War I would buy God of War.

When does the Witcher 2 come out again?

Modifié par kr33g0r, 08 novembre 2010 - 11:23 .

[Moppe84]

Imo, doesnt make much sense changing the gameplay (radically?) from the original Dragonage: Origins to something more of a Dynasty Warrior gameplay.



Dragonage Origins got great reviews overall and I liked it mainly because it was not another action rpg. (Maybe that's where things are heading these days). I'm not too excited after seeing this clip however, I mostly play because of story and the vast amount of choices you can make.



ME2 was a huge disappointment for me I hope DA2 will turn into something better, action rpgs tends to become quite linear in combat sense imo.



I was happy when I read a statement some time ago about DA:O "Bioware returning to its roots" which made me think of the good old Baldurs Gate series (yes i'm a pc user and missed games like that for a while). DA2 maybe jumped a bit too much away from DA:O which might make me wait and see rather than pre order .

[Pzykozis]

kr33g0r wrote...

Just saw the video.... cancelling my pre-order. If I wanted to play God of War I would buy God of War.

When does the Witcher 2 come out again?

My eyes bleed from the Irony...

Modifié par Pzykozis, 08 novembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[kr33g0r]

Pzykozis wrote...

kr33g0r wrote...

Just saw the video.... cancelling my pre-order. If I wanted to play God of War I would buy God of War.

When does the Witcher 2 come out again?

My eyes bleed from the Irony...

I can see your point. However, the need for alchemy in the Witcher (especially on difficult) at least broke up the God of War style combat. This just looks like a complete copy and paste, just change the skin's and animations.

[Saibh]

Moppe84 wrote...

Imo, doesnt make much sense changing the gameplay (radically?) from the original Dragonage: Origins to something more of a Dynasty Warrior gameplay.

Dragonage Origins got great reviews overall and I liked it mainly because it was not another action rpg. (Maybe that's where things are heading these days). I'm not too excited after seeing this clip however, I mostly play because of story and the vast amount of choices you can make.

ME2 was a huge disappointment for me I hope DA2 will turn into something better, action rpgs tends to become quite linear in combat sense imo.

I was happy when I read a statement some time ago about DA:O "Bioware returning to its roots" which made me think of the good old Baldurs Gate series (yes i'm a pc user and missed games like that for a while). DA2 maybe jumped a bit too much away from DA:O which might make me wait and see rather than pre order .

I doubt you've ever played a Dynasty Warriors game then. Draw parallels besides "They move fast and hit things a lot". Gameplay looks just the same to me as DAO, if using different animations and adding things like mage melee, just sped up.

Modifié par Saibh, 08 novembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[The Masked Rog]

kr33g0r wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

kr33g0r wrote...

Just saw the video.... cancelling my pre-order. If I wanted to play God of War I would buy God of War.

When does the Witcher 2 come out again?

My eyes bleed from the Irony...

I can see your point. However, the need for alchemy in the Witcher (especially on difficult) at least broke up the God of War style combat. This just looks like a complete copy and paste, just change the skin's and animations.

Oh, so there is equipment in God of War? Pause? Auto-attack? Lots of abilities? No combos at all?
And here I was thinking God of War was a hack and slash.

[TheDayWarden]

I've got faith in Bioware to deliver, I've not been let down yet. In terms of the gameplay shown in this and other videos I agree it looks like sped-up Origins combat, which in my opinion is no bad thing.

[YuniSticksitDeep]

Someone said you can NO LONGER CHANGE THE "APPEARANCE" of your companions??!!?!!?!!

IS  THIS   TRUE???!?!?!!?!


IT Better NOT BE.

This Means mods will be useless.

Someone tell me I misread that....Please.

Also the game play cannot stay like that and not alienate the "Old School" RPG"rs.

Almost seemed "Vindictus" ish..


Yuni<3

[kr33g0r]

The Masked Rog wrote...



Oh, so there is equipment in God of War? Pause? Auto-attack? Lots of abilities? No combos at all?

And here I was thinking God of War was a hack and slash.

DA2 looks like it is now a hack and slash that they have just jazzed it up a little with inventory and all those other things you mentioned. What was wrong with the combat in DA:O? They have changed from more of a classic style RPG game to what is essentially a button masher.