498 réponses à ce sujet

[TJPags]

You know, I don't do hardening with her - or with Alistair, for that matter.  I go with the dialogue option that seems right at the time.  It usually results in an unhardened Leli . . . I think I actually harden Alistair more often, but, ehh, Alistair means nothing to me.

[sylvanaerie]

I just love her. She's charmingly eccentric, I think the OP has her personality all wrong *but he/she is entitled to hate her if he/she wishes* I think her faith is real. And I like her pillow talk. I DLed Cmess little Leliana mod and it includes Dialogue fixes (including allowing you to trigger her personal quest at any time), an improved kiss and replays her tent scene.
her special kiss...she grabs the PC's face (which for some reason that pic isn't loading like its supposed to) immediately after you click her and select the option to kiss her.

you get the smooch


LOL AND OMG I just noticed the dwarf ogling them   the perv!!

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 novembre 2010 - 02:06 .

[Giggles_Manically]

This is one of the better pics I captured:

[sylvanaerie]

I have to harden her on my Prince Consort game so I can keep her as my mistress but otherwise she usually stays her sweet sweet self. This is especially true after playing Leliana's Song and seeing the sh*t Marjolaine put her through.

[Giggles_Manically]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I have to harden her on my Prince Consort game so I can keep her as my mistress but otherwise she usually stays her sweet sweet self. This is especially true after playing Leliana's Song and seeing the sh*t Marjolaine put her through.

I only did it once on my City Elf PT.
Mainly so I could do an US without the ending slide that I hate popping up. 

[sylvanaerie]

What happenes if you US and she is hardened? Cause i wasn't expecting the unhardened Leliana one and I felt like I had been kicked in the gut. I had to close out the game and go have a good cry.

[TJPags]

I don't US. Makes no sense to me.



But I've seen the unhardened slide . . . and it's pretty harsh . . . .

[Giggles_Manically]

sylvanaerie wrote...

What happenes if you US and she is hardened? Cause i wasn't expecting the unhardened Leliana one and I felt like I had been kicked in the gut. I had to close out the game and go have a good cry.

She still writes the song, but she goes to Orlais to hunt down the people who might be a threat to her.
So yah it still sucks.

Although I do like her line where she says:
"You are the first thing I see when I wake up, and the last thing I see before I fall asleep" when she is hardened. I just dont do it really, since I usually end with the Redeemer ending, or the DR I dont have to harden her.

On a side note I think this would sound like the song she wrote for the warden after the US:
Into the West.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 09 novembre 2010 - 02:17 .

[sylvanaerie]

yea I only did it for the achievements (I got both WC and US on that run) and I usually DR. I really liked the US ending though and have done it a couple times (with Alistair romanced, he seems to do better if he is king than poor Leli without that duty to cling to). I guess no matter what happens all the LI's get it pretty bad when you US. Poor Zev just leaves and returns to Antiva and never loves again. Leli dies (or disappears into Orlais), Morrigan...well I don't know what her In love slide says...something about her being in Orlais' imperial court...(course I could have gotten a broken slide). Alistair leaves the GW's and disappears...no, the US is not good on any of the Romanced PC's. Sten and Oghren get awesome slides though.

Damn, nice song Giggles...I love LoTR...*Points to her avatar pic*  That's supposed to be Neria and Teagan for my fanfic but Luna used Arwen and Boromir for it

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 novembre 2010 - 02:24 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

My Mistake wrote...
She is delusional when it comes to the Maker, hoping to fill that void left by Marjolaine that she'll cling to any strong figure in her life, then commiting suicide if they died.

While I may word it differently, I do basically agree with the general idea. Her devotion to the Maker, plus her belief that the Maker communicated with her specifically, might either be a conscious or sub-conscious attempt to fill the vacuum that was engendered by Marjolaine's betrayal. I do think she was scarred by this more so than the torturing and other "horrible" things that I don't want to think about.

People who are emotionally and psychologically hurt do try to find relief, consciously or subconsciously, and I personally believe that her devotion to the Maker and her attempt to personalize it (via visions) is doing just that. In addition to possibly wanting to attract attention. Afterall, she's lived a life of luxury and of purposely trying to attract attention and she loved it apparently.

I wouldn't call her crazy at all, so I disagree with the op. However, I do find this state to be unhealthy, hence why I prefer hardening her, as she gains a little more self-reliance (of course I am aware that this could also be unhealthy for other reasons).   

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 novembre 2010 - 02:25 .

[My Mistake]

I actually dont hate her, i should of worded this thread why I harden her

[TJPags]

My Mistake wrote...

I actually dont hate her, i should of worded this thread why I harden her

Well, I don't hate her either - far from it.

But she IS somewhat unbalanced.

[Axekix]

My Mistake wrote...

I actually dont hate her, i should of worded this thread why I harden her

Herdening her doesn't really do much for the problems you claim to have with her.  It's not as if she abandons her faith,  and hardened or unhardened, she winds up idolizing the Warden (if you have her rep up) in place of Marj/the Maker anyway.

She's just a clingy person by nature, though that is part of her charm imo.  She's loyal, to a fault, but at least she's one of the few companions who'll -completely- open up to you.

Dammit Morrigan... <_< 

Modifié par Axekix, 09 novembre 2010 - 02:45 .

[metalcraze33]

I like the bard part of her personality but all that maker crap annoys me

[sylvanaerie]

I love her. She's not my favorite companion, but she certainly isn't least. my 'canon' Cousland male romances her and Morrigan at the start. I get all the catfight banters and then when Morrigan goes all
'get away from me' on Roland, I let her break it off and finish the game with Leliana.
I did make it all the way to the DR to see what differences in dialogue you get though. Was SO FREAKING disappointed. Just her pillowtalk dialogue right before the DR itself was different. I absolutely hated that Bioware made her "in love" dialogue the same as her 'friends' dialogue. *meaning Morrigan, not Leliana*

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 novembre 2010 - 02:49 .

[Bruddajakka]

It isn't supposed to be, apparently there's a bunch of dialogue in regards to how she's doing it because she doesn't want to see you die, and the like.



Though if you do break it off when she asks you. It does end the romance.

[Axekix]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I love her. She's not my favorite companion, but she certainly isn't least. my 'canon' Cousland male romances her and Morrigan at the start. I get all the catfight banters and then when Morrigan goes all
'get away from me' on Roland, I let her break it off and finish the game with Leliana.

Haha that's how I played my first warden.  It gives you a very "feel good" ending at least.

My "canon" went with Morri because I am apparently a glutton for drama.  But WH did make me feel a little better.

I did make it all the way to the DR to see what differences in dialogue you get though. Was SO FREAKING disappointed. Just her pillowtalk dialogue right before the DR itself was different. I absolutely hated that Bioware made her "in love" dialogue the same as her 'friends' dialogue. *meaning Morrigan, not Leliana*

Also this.

[sylvanaerie]

Bruddajakka wrote...

It isn't supposed to be, apparently there's a bunch of dialogue in regards to how she's doing it because she doesn't want to see you die, and the like.

Though if you do break it off when she asks you. It does end the romance.

The flag can be retriggered with the golden mirror you buy in Orzammar.  The convo is just bugged I think.  I got the in love slide for both Morrigan AND Leliana that playthrough.  Roland was such a hound dawg...I romanced all four LI's in that one (well romanced three and got the 4some with Leliana/Zevran and Isabella...so technically i tagged all four LI's)

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 novembre 2010 - 03:02 .

[Bruddajakka]

Oh I'm well aware about the various ways to start/stop/restart the romances.



As for Leliana I don't think she's crazy so much as she can be a bit of a drama queen.

[Dean_the_Young]

I don't think she's crazy, but she does show signs of being many signs of being suicidal as an unhardened character. Perhaps not imminently, but 'one bad heartbreak/day away' with an emotional dependence on other things.



She's a more stable person re-hardened, at least.

[Dean_the_Young]

To expand upon the above, suicidal thought patterns often comes various warning signs. This list is not a total list of signs, nor do all signs on this list need to be present (some suicide victims hide signs, or they are never noticed and seen by others), but a combination of multiple signs is a basis for concern.

As another clarification: suicidal signs do not indicate a current intent or plan to. But suicide itself is often a spur-of-the-moment decision.

Signs Leliana does show, or admit to at various points

• Withdrawing from family and friends. (She certainly left all connections she had in Orlais, and any shehad made in Ferelden. While yes, she was in danger in Orlais, it also matters in the sense of a loss and lack of support networks.)
  
• Feeling helpless.(If you harden her, she admits to feeling stifled in many ways by the Chantry)
  
• Feeling strong anger or rage.(There certainly are aspects from the betrayal that she keeps bottled up.)
  
• Feeling trapped -- like there is no way out of a situation.(Hardened admittance again)
  
• Experiencing dramatic mood changes.(The fact shewas unhardened in thefirst place is the most major sign of them all)

• Exhibiting a change in personality.(Goeswith theabove)

• Acting impulsively. (Debatable)
• Losing interest in most activities. (Part of becoming unhardened)
• Giving away prized possessions.(Not clear how much she ever had, but she certainly doesn't claim anything of her own once she went to the chantry)
• Acting recklessly.(Certainly joining a random band of adventurers on the basis of a vision is a little reckless.)

I'd also add

• Acts of attention. It's a strange thing that many suicidal people unconsciously want help, even without realizing why they act in certain ways to get attention.

[Wulfram]

Leliana is actually pretty rational about her vision. She's doesn't really expect others to believe her, and is prepared to admit "my vision may not be from [the maker], but it guides me to do what is right"

[sylvanaerie]

I'm sorry, Dean I have to disagree. If you use that criteria for all the companions to determine sanity you can see suicidal tendancies in anyone. I think you're looking for symptoms and pointing out instances where there really aren't any. Just because you're depressed or even suicidal doesn't mean you're crazy.  If you perceive this in your game that's certainly a valid point but I see them differently. 
She left Orlais (with little more than the shirt on her back) because of a situation with Marjolaine.  Cecilie was dead, there really wasn't anything in Orlais for her to leave behind.  She didn't give away her possessions or withdraw from contact with other people.
When she joins the warden, she finds new purpose to her life, doing something meaningful - Ending the Blight (As most of the companions do), so she doesn't 'lose interest in activities'.
She doesn't suffer from mood swings.  She is written in a very believable manner to react to things as anyone will.  (She expresses concern if you let marjolaine go or pleasure in the taking of her life, in connection with a revenge motif).  Is the PC who murders Howe for killing his/her family then insane?  Beause for me that was the best death in the game.
What of Oghren (a substance abuser in addition to being depressed) and the whole berserker, point him in the right direction and he runs off fighting. That's sane behavior? His being outcast from Dwarven society is due to his temper and killing someone. Recently abandoned by his wife, ridiculed and kicked out of his society.
Zevran, outcast from all he knew, who even sought to die by taking the contract in the first place then clings to the Warden like a lifeline afterward.
Sten who went crazy and killed a family (including kids) and then wanted to sit in a cage to starve/be killed by Darkspawn to atone.
Wynne who clearly suffers from the most horrible Stockholm Syndrome I think I have ever had to witness in a game.
The only stable one (And not even the PC is included in this) is Dog who clearly just loves the PC and is devoted to him/her.
Like Leliana, all of these characters have the potential to have their lives improved by the end of the game. or to be further broken. Look how messed up Oghren is in Awakenings and that's IF you helped him in Origins. I don't think any of them are crazy, just a little broken up.  Not beyond repair.
Leliana's is not the only messed up slide if you romance her and do the US. All the LI's (except Morrigan I've never seen her in love slide if you do the US slide so I can't say what that is) are broken after the PC dies. The only one who seems to soldier on and continue well is King Alistair (who had duty to cling to after the PC is gone).

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 novembre 2010 - 11:44 .

[EccentricSage]

How is it un-civil to insult a fictional character? Insulting the fans, yes, insulting those who disagree, yes, insulting the writers yes, but insulting the character?  That is irrational.

I do think Lel is a bit... off... Rather than growing as your relationship with her progresses, she merely becomes dependant, and after Marjolain, basically asks the Warden to choose for her what type of person she should be. It doesn't seem to matter to HER weather or not killing for profit is wrong, in the long run, but rather all she cares about is finding someone important who will make those tough moral decisions for her. Which pretty much makes her claims of regretting killing people and more, moot. I mean, you can't say 'oh, I regret it, I was bad and feel remorse', and then say 'but do you think it's ok for me to kill people? OK, the maker created a dark side to the world, so it must be ok to embrace it. ' If one really felt remorse, one would stand by that. I find her wishy washy ideals and lack of any core principles that are truly hers disturbing. It reminds me of those women you hear about who fall in love with a man, and then help him rape and murder, all the while pretending to be sweet and innocent and naive. I wonder if there is a specific personality disorder? I should probably search the web later, but I need to get back to bed, for now.

Anyhow, she's well written over all, really, even if I don't like her. Her creepy insane aspect seemed completely intentional to me. I found myself trying to figure out weather she has a serious personality disorder, or weather she is knowingly playing a role, intentionally manipulating me to the very end. Which would also indicate a personality disorder, just a slightly different one. I guess I feel much more comfortable with Zevran because despite what he's done in his past, and what he's capable of, I feel like I know where I stand with him, and understand easily where he is coming from. Lelliana is a labrinth you might never find your way through, and you find yourself wondering what twist or turn she'll take. I find myself very distrustful of her. I would never get close to someone like her in real life.

I think, at best, she has a Polly Anna complex and thinks of herself as a hapless victim of fate, placing blame on others or claiming her actions are somehow guided or abided by a higher power, not wanting to fully be responsible for her actions and professed ideals. Kind of a character who plays at being the Typical Marry-Sue but is anything but. That makes for an interesting character, but in my eyes, not a positive quality in a person.

My apologies if this is a bit disjointed or ramble-y. Seriously going back to bed now.

Modifié par EccentricSage, 09 novembre 2010 - 11:43 .