498 réponses à ce sujet

[sylvanaerie]

actually I find instead of depression, the way she is written more fits this disorder

http://www.nimh.nih....eet/index.shtml

But that's just one take on it. Personally I prefer to think of her as "charmingly eccentric" than out and out loony toons.

[Wulfram]

Are there any companions in origins you couldn't describe as crazy? Dog I guess, maybe Wynne?

[sylvanaerie]

Wynne has a severe Stockholm Syndrome. (Had her newborn infant taken from her without her consent) and she loves the people who did it to her...

Dog is the only 'stable' one but then...can a dog really BE crazy?

[Sarah1281]

Leliana has a dream that she interprets as a vision (and it might even be true). There's nothing crazy about having a dream.

[sylvanaerie]

Actually Shavon just pointing out if someone looks for crazy or lables on the characters with the right stretch of the imagination you can attach any attendant ills to them. Personally I like Wynne (I don't dislike any companion though after playing a mage far too often Sten really gets on my nerves to the point I don't even talk to him anymore in Lothering to get him out of the cage).

[sylvanaerie]

Exactly, again another illustration of how "if you look for symptoms you will find them". I don't think she's crazy (or any of the companions are crazy) but if you look for them to be so then you will (and can) certainly play they are. Eccentric, well written and fun yes. Crazy, not so much.

[Giggles_Manically]

All charachters in Bioware games are eccentric or off if you look close enough.



Shale- 400 year old dwarf woman in a golems body, who hates pigeons and people.



Wynne- Possesed woman, who has been brainwashed into chantry and circle dogma.



Alistair-outstanding Duncan, family, and love issues, who can just as easily be broken.



Zevran- a life time of abuse at the hands of the crows, and one who takes a huge amount of effort to actually love the warden, even though he never says it.



Oghren- Drunk, who lost his wife and family, and well we all know the rest.



Leliana- No family, was abused/raped/tortured because of Marjorlane, and latches onto the people who treat her well in Origins.



Morrigan- Raised by a witch of the wilds, who suffers a critical error when she finds that she is in love.



Sten- Someone who believes some pretty oppresive things about certain groups, yet can overcome them by the end. Female, elf, Mage = Kadan in one of my runs.I think Sten has the least amount of issues really compared to the others.

[Wulfram]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Sten- Someone who believes some pretty oppresive things about certain groups, yet can overcome them by the end. Female, elf, Mage = Kadan in one of my runs.I think Sten has the least amount of issues really compared to the others.

You're forgetting the whole going crazy and committing mass murder because he lost his sword?

[Giggles_Manically]

Wulfram wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Sten- Someone who believes some pretty oppresive things about certain groups, yet can overcome them by the end. Female, elf, Mage = Kadan in one of my runs.I think Sten has the least amount of issues really compared to the others.

You're forgetting the whole going crazy and committing mass murder because he lost his sword?

Thanks I did forget that.
He just woke up  and realized that he had failed his men, lost any honor he once had, and had become a non-person.
Then he does something he hates himself for doing. If he is taken to the guardian he flat out admits that he is a failure to his people and his belief.

So yah Sten has lots of issues too.

Sorry I am writing about the Reforms in Maritime Canada right now, and forgot that.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sten's acts always struck me as an outburst affected by cultural differences rather than insanity. More akin to someone who wakes up in a panic and kicks the dog, rather than overall crazyness.

[maxernst]

Well, if you think about it, joining up with an outlaw on what would appear to be a hopeless, suicidal mission, is not something most stable individuals would do.

[Thane19]

Daewan wrote...

Religious faith pretty much relies on the inability to string logical thoughts together. Together with the fact that their religious texts change by leader and can be interpreted multiple ways, inconsistent behavior becomes a badge of true faith rather than hypocrisy.

What? This is rather... narrow-minded, not to mention indicative of a superiority complex, (I'm better than religious people). Try walking in someone else's shoes for a bit.

OT: I notice that very few people actually try to argue that maybe Leliana really DID receive a vision from the Maker. Is there something in the notes that I'm missing that explains that the Maker isn't really real, (in Dragon Age, of course, not trying to start a theological debate), or are we just assuming that?

I'm not saying I necessarily think she did, but it should be an option.

[Sarah1281]

I don't happen to believe that the Maker is a good guy if he does indeed exist (which I'm not positive about) but EVERYONE insists that the Maker doesn't speak directly to anyone and hasn't since even before Andraste and that's what made Andraste so special. While the guardian is obviously biased, Leliana has difficulty refuting his claims that her dream being a 'vision' was about wanting to be more special than she was and her boredom in the Chantry and, hardened, she also admits she's not sure tha Maker really sent her a vision. Also, why would he have given a vision to Leliana? She's hardly essential to ending the Blight and it can be done just as easily without her. If, say, you or Alistair had a vision and that led you to nto dying at Ostagar or Flemeth had a vision and that led her to saving the two of you at the Tower then that is something that what have a point. If Loghain had a vision of his army getting slaugthered and all of Ferelden falling to the darkspawn if he charged then THAT would have a point. If Leliana was going to be especially chosen by the Maker to help end the Blight then I would expect her to perform a special task no one in the group can instead of just being another rogue.

[EccentricSage]

Honestly, IMO, her vision from the maker is just a delusion not unlike what many real people claim to experience. Sometimes people have a hard time distinguishing unusual coincidences from meaningful patterns. I believe I've had a meaningful symbolic dream before, but I just don't atribute it to a god. Probably because I don't believe in a god. But it makes sense to me that someone who believes in a god might connect that belief in a higher power with their experiences. I don't think that's any more crazy than the vast majority of humanity. Most people have SOME belief that can not be substantiated.



Anyhow, I tend more towards thinking her behavior indicates a very severe complex at best, or a personality disorder at worst. I already went into that in a previous post in this thread though.



And I do agree, all of the companions have serious issues. But I do not believe they all fall under diagnosable mental illnesses. Lelliana might, but IMO, it has little to do with her vision.

[Axekix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If Leliana was going to be especially chosen by the Maker to help end the Blight then I would expect her to perform a special task no one in the group can instead of just being another rogue.

I agree, although I think it comes down to the way you play the game. 

Obviously if you don't recruit her or kill her, she might not have much impact on your Warden or their story.  For Leli-romancers however, she can easily become the most important companion character in the game, which validates her vision to an extent.  In that case she is  performing a task no one else in the group can, and may even influence your Warden's decisions as much as you do hers.

Obviously they left it ambiguous for a reason.

[Giggles_Manically]

Yeah Gaider did say once that they leave all those things up in the air, and have people see things from many different ways.



I hate how Star Wars games ALWAYS make the Darkside out to be pure and utter evil, and anyone who follows it is a monster. Which is why I have hope for TOR.

[Lukertin]

Thane19 wrote...
OT: I notice that very few people actually try to argue that maybe Leliana really DID receive a vision from the Maker. Is there something in the notes that I'm missing that explains that the Maker isn't really real, (in Dragon Age, of course, not trying to start a theological debate), or are we just assuming that?

I'm not saying I necessarily think she did, but it should be an option.

You're forgetting that if you bring Leliana to the Guardian on the Sacred Ashes quest, he accuses her of making the whole thing up to get attention from the Chantry, because she was getting bored.  Her response is funny.

[Giggles_Manically]

 Oghren at the guardian is by far the best:

[TJPags]

I'd never seen Oghren with the guardian - usually take Sten, because of the challenge - also usually tend to do this before I pick Oghren up. It's pretty cool.



Leli, though . . . I like that one. Guardian splashes cold water in her face, huh?

[Sarah1281]

He does but he's speaking from a position of 'The Maker never spoke to anyone but Andraste (who I majorly heart!). You're not Andraste. Who are you to claim that the Maker spoke to you? Are you comparing yourself to Andraste?' than actually knowing for a fact that the vision was false. After all, the Maker is hardly speaking to the guardian.

[TJPags]

No, but the Guardian knew Andraste - who the Maker DID speak to.



Well, allegedly.

[Sarah1281]

And how does the guardian having known Andraste (regardless of whether the Maker spoke to her or not) make him some sort of authority on whether or not Leliana's vision came from the Maker?