17 réponses à ce sujet

[caladorne]

Hello all

I finished a third playthrough last week and wanted to get started on a forth! So, I would like some help heading in.

So far, I've played through all of the origins. Some characters just didn't 'stick' and I managed to go the distance with a DE/DW/rogue, HM, and EM. Some other pcs have saves at various points, but I wanted to start fresh with a HN/DW/rogue...yes it's a trend to play the same character types!

Since my pc has yet to wield an epic long blade, I'm gonna go for a bit more strength than I normally would (31) though i realize I can use fade bonuses and gear to meet the min reqs. What sort of base STR should I aim for to get there before the fade? I'm curently at lvl 6 and have 21. For Dex I'll probably get to 28 (current 24) for DW expert and maybe take Punisher.  BUT, I'm assuming less defense from DEX can be somewhat compensated for with armor. Is that somewhat accurate? the rest will go into CUN for backstab DPS (current 17), coersion, traps, etc.

For specs, I'm thinking Bard/Assasin to get the most utility out of CUN. Good idea? My last rogue was played on normal difficulty with Bard/Duelist. This time I wanna up the ante a bit So i wanna check before going to far down this road.

For mates...not sure. I know there's a gagillion combos, opinions, ways, etc. but I would like some input. Dog will probably be around alot since he came in the origin though I've never used him past Lothering before. That's two DPS. How about Shale as a tank on harder difficulties? Never really used her either. That leaves the magi. For a BAMF, Wynne is probably not making out of the tower (never sided with the templars.) So Morrigan tags along...again. Could she tank as an AW? I know she can manage the BM part.

In general, this is designed to be the Jeckel-n-Hyde play through where the opposite choices are made. So any rp advice in addition to the above would also be great.

Thanks!!!

[termokanden]

Why 31 strength exactly?



Anyway I don't see the point in investing a lot in both strength and cunning. You need Lethality to take advantage of high cunning, but then your high strength would be wasted.



That said, I have been saying in other threads that Bard/Assassin is the way to go for cunning rogues.

[Zy-El]

With 31 STR, you can wield Starfang and wear the Warden Commander's armor. That's what STR gives you. It is possible to build a Rogue with mainly STR/DEX and do a lot of base damage; this is very similar to a Warrior build but the Rogue has Stealth which only requires at most Cunning 22. If you have Lelianna doing most of the Rogue stuff, your PC does not need to invest in them.

[termokanden]

Ah right if you use the longswords, of course!



However, it still doesn't make sense to me to get a relatively high strength and then start pumping cunning. I'd rather get more strength and have the increased scaling from it now that we're using longswords, plus the ability to wear massive armor, or go for a MUCH lower strength and focus much more on cunning and just use daggers.



I will grudgingly accept that other people may have different opinions, and that they are as valid as mine

[caladorne]

So thanks for the couple of replies.



I just finished the tower and have decided to go with even more STR!!! More armor and DW large weapons. Momentum has worked well with daggers, but will attack speed be a lot lower with say a sword and axe? What type of runes should I aim for in the main and off-hand.



This also means that I will likely skip the Lethality line altogether. Should I max Stealth instead? I would definitely like some input on the second specialization. I'm still thinking assassin, especially if i go with stealth, as aggro is a problem right now (Shale may have to go).



I've got CUN up to 30? with one pt in Deft hands. With items it's at 40? How much more do i need to open locks/disarm traps/etc. I'm trying to balance out talents if you can't tell.



Party advice would still be welcome. I kept Wynne, but sided with the templars. how much micro would she or Morrigan need as AW tanks? I've used Ogi before but am not intending a trip to Orzammar anytime soon. Alistair is naked in camp!!!



Thanks for the help.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Swords and axes will be slower then daggers. Don't think it would be 'a lot' slower, but somewhat noticeable. Personally, I have a paralyze rune in at least the main hand, if not both weapons and Hale or Dweomer in the remaining slots the time.

With a 30 Cun, all four in the Deft Hands line will let you open everything that's not plot locked.

Stealth would be good to position yourself behind problem targets and take them out fast(ish) and then being able to shed the agro it would generate on you.

AW tanks won't really hold agro as well as a warrior tank, but possible I hear. Only game I've done without a tank was a three rogue/one caster mage one so I couldn't say. Have them cast a big area spell (blizzard, inferno, etc) before anyone else attacks and they should get enough to hold things for a bit.

[Bozorgmehr]

caladorne wrote...

I just finished the tower and have decided to go with even more STR!!! More armor and DW large weapons. Momentum has worked well with daggers, but will attack speed be a lot lower with say a sword and axe? What type of runes should I aim for in the main and off-hand.

Attack Speed will suffer though with high STR dps shouldn't be a problem (swift salves are nice too). Less points into DEX will make your character more vulnerable (lower defenses).

The best runes are paralysis runes; followed closely by slow runes; remember you can get the same or better results (stunning / reducing enemy movement speed) using poisons (they stack btw, so there's no limit how many you use at a given time - I had my weapons coated in 20 poisions once ) Runes that increase physical and spell resistance are nice too, but there usefulness depends on the other gear equiped and enemies.

This also means that I will likely skip the Lethality line altogether. Should I max Stealth instead? I would definitely like some input on the second specialization. I'm still thinking assassin, especially if i go with stealth, as aggro is a problem right now (Shale may have to go).

With high STR Lethality is pretty useless; Evasion is bad for dps (damn animation). Stealth is always nice and Master Stealth will allow you to strike (and flee) at will - very useful. Assassin spec is great though I never used full-size weaponry to backstab much; might be useful to use daggers for stealth/assassinations and switch to swords/axes in 'normal' combat. Feast of the Fallen's stamina regen effect is awesome (but it's rank 4 and requires level 16).

Party advice would still be welcome. I kept Wynne, but sided with the templars. how much micro would she or Morrigan need as AW tanks? I've used Ogi before but am not intending a trip to Orzammar anytime soon. Alistair is naked in camp!!!

AW don't require managment, they can only auto-attack. The AW spec is best used once your mages are out of mana. I recommend to use them like normal mages first (there are quite a lot of spells that will draw enemy attention) and switch to AW to keep them alive so you can go backstabbing.

Alistair, Dog and Shale make excellent tanks; since you can open locks and disable traps yourself I would use one of them to tank; Morrigan and Wynne to support and you will be the main damage dealer.

[Elhanan]

Even w/o selecting any Talents, Assassin and Duelist work well with a STR/DEX Rogue. If you already have Bard, and are using the 3rd Song, stick with it, take either of those other specs, and place the Talent picks where you wish.

I recommend Shale for the versatility; good as a warrior. buffs, range, etc. And Shale cannot be Crunched by dragons. The Stone Heart line is good for melee, and if Shale gets weak in health, you can select the last line Aura effects.

As for other options in selecting Talents, the top Archer line is good for the occasional break from melee, and while wearing up to heavy armor. As you should have a decent DEX as a DW, this makes for a compatable line of abilities.

[termokanden]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

With high STR Lethality is pretty useless; Evasion is bad for dps (damn animation). Stealth is always nice and Master Stealth will allow you to strike (and flee) at will - very useful. Assassin spec is great though I never used full-size weaponry to backstab much; might be useful to use daggers for stealth/assassinations and switch to swords/axes in 'normal' combat. Feast of the Fallen's stamina regen effect is awesome (but it's rank 4 and requires level 16).

1. Read my comment about Lethality above. It's definitely not useless. It's rather marginal if you backstab mainly though and have higher strength than cunning.

2. Feast of the Fallen should have been awesome, but I'm sad to say I disagree with that statement. So many times you backstab someone and they turn around JUST before the killing blow. Or someone else gets the killing blow. When you do finally manage to get the killing blow, it doesn't seem to return all that much stamina anyway. I honestly didn't even notice the difference.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Yes, the stamina return talents (both Feast and Death Blow) have been rather underwhelming for my games. I keep hearing people on the forum say their 2 handers never have stamina issues once they get DB, but in my Awakening and later Origin games I was bottoming out my stamina regularly. Rogues do better but that's mostly due to not really using any talents much. Stealth, Dirty fighting and Riposte in Origins while Momentum and paralyze runes help spike the damage. Heartseeker and Flicker get added in Awakening but with the Clarity skill stamina becomes even less of an issue.

[Bozorgmehr]

@ Termokanden; I didn't said Lethality is useless, I said it's pretty useless (with high STR) xD



Both Feast of the Fallen and Death Blow are good stamina regen talents though I agree it can be difficult with certain party setups to make them beneficial. I never had isues with my 2H Warrior (he was the party's damage dealer and tank in one, so he (almost) killed all enemies himself); rogues require some micro management (stun enemies before delivering the killing blow (from behind) works well).

[termokanden]

I never had problems with Death Blow myself either, but Feast of the Fallen is just much more restricted. Basically any time you run out of stuns or if you have to handle an enemy on your own (which happens often in my case), you get no stamina back at all.



I will agree that stamina is not a huge problem for rogues though.

[miltos33]

In Awakening, if you Flicker in Shadow Form + Shadow Striking you can get all your stamina back from Feast of the Fallen.

[caladorne]

Thanks for all the replies!



Definitely much that has been considered. I'm now at lvl 16ish and looking for more input. STR has reached base 42, DEX 42, CUN 30. Where should my remaining pts go to? I skipped lethality to focus on STR (using stealth and stuns alot) but am not sure how much STR to aim for (planning on taking scout specialization in Awakenings.)



I've mostly been rolling with Shale, Dog, Morrigan with Leli and Oghren getting some screen time. I'm still having trouble with Shale as a tank though. RP wise and tactic wise it's not working well (maybe more prep for an additional 3 mage/shale tank run though.)

[caladorne]

A bitt more help please?



It's amazing what pcs can do to you! What started out as an 'evil' character run has changed dramatically. Alot of the choices have been on the naughty list, but the rp behind them evolved as Leli has had an impact for sure! But this is not the forum for such so I'll move on to tactics.



I still don't really understand the threat side of things very well. I'm getting ready for the Final Battle and prepping for Awakenings, so I know that a respec is coming! If I go w/ Cun 22 and Dex 38 will maxing Str affect aggro that much? I've been using stealth frequently which is fine and quite handy when a skirmish turn into a battle and aggro goes bananas. I just feel like less of a 'shredder' than my DW/CUN build based on damage per attack (and slower attack speed.)



I'm enjoying using two big weapons and wearing large armor, I just wanna make sure I'm not missing anything. Thanks for all the help so far!

[Elhanan]

caladorne wrote...

A bitt more help please?

It's amazing what pcs can do to you! What started out as an 'evil' character run has changed dramatically. Alot of the choices have been on the naughty list, but the rp behind them evolved as Leli has had an impact for sure! But this is not the forum for such so I'll move on to tactics.

I still don't really understand the threat side of things very well. I'm getting ready for the Final Battle and prepping for Awakenings, so I know that a respec is coming! If I go w/ Cun 22 and Dex 38 will maxing Str affect aggro that much? I've been using stealth frequently which is fine and quite handy when a skirmish turn into a battle and aggro goes bananas. I just feel like less of a 'shredder' than my DW/CUN build based on damage per attack (and slower attack speed.)

I'm enjoying using two big weapons and wearing large armor, I just wanna make sure I'm not missing anything. Thanks for all the help so far!

I never have to worry about agro and MMO like concepts in the game too much, as Pause allows adequate time to think of tactical plans.

For Awakenings, the Cunning at 22 could work as there are few traps, though locks may still need Cunning 30. I do recommend changing focus from STR to DEX; leaving STR at 46 for top tier  heavy armor, and allow yourself the use of Accuracy now and again to whittle a foe at distance just for the fun of it. Master Archer and Accuracy will allow you to choose which foes to close upon as some are best kept at a distance.

Modifié par Elhanan, 09 décembre 2010 - 05:00 .

[caladorne]

Fair enough. I just finished the Origins coronation/on the road stuff last night. I decided to go ahead and port into Awakenings...



I saved before too much happened so I could be 'fresh' during my next sitting! So, when I get home tonight I'm gonna go for respec...



STR 46

CUN 30

CON base

WIL 20

MAG base

DEX Max?



It's been awhile so I don't remember exactly what the Xbox problem is for Dex (damage scaling? armor penetration?). Also, it was suggested much earlier in the thread that damage would go up more with STR. I guess I'm still torn with the choice of STR or DEX. As i said, I'm enjoying using large weapons, but without Starfang, I might use the Veshaille in the off hand instead of a blade. Does this impact the decision?



For specs, I'm planning on going with Assassin/Duelist/Legion though the Bard song was nice for companion boosts. I'll have some extra talents to play with as well since I didn't use alot of the DW tree (maxed all three lines in Origins) so I may invest some in archery to mix it up as you suggest.



The new skills are interesting as well. I'll probably go for Coercion max, combat max, poisons, etc. and let another npc focus on runecrafting though I tend to prefer to do the 'tinkering' with my pc. Thoughts here?



Sound like a plan?

[Elhanan]

Personally, I like more Willpower, but the design looks fine. Higher STR does help larger weapon dmg, while both higher STR & DEX helps Impale dmg such as daggers, arrows, etc.

For skills, I recommend full Combat Training, Coersion, Survival, and Stealing; partial Poison(1), and allow NPC's to craft.