92 réponses à ce sujet

[Silensfurtim]

Sandal

[Greenaway]

2H is pretty sucky. A good dexterity based dual wielding rogue in light armour kills Sten even easier than Alistair would. Stun-(multipoisoned)-stab-stab-stab-stab-combat stealth-rinse-and-repeat (and you would not have to repeat more than twice).

[Jinadan]

The question was not "Is Sword and Shield spec better than 2H spec?" but was "Sten vs. Alistair Who would win?" Unless the OP was suggesting the in-game characters /duel with given specs and gear. From a RP point of view, not limited to the rules of the game, Sten dominates Al.

[Greenaway]

If the implied question was "who seems like a bigger bad****"... Sten wins the WWE style prefight staredown.



If the implied question was "who would win, the fully developed shield and sword tank Alistair or fully developed 2H DPS-er Sten" - Alistair wins.

[Foe Paw]

@lvl 8 Alistiar



@lvl 14 or more Sten



Sten is 4x the man Ali could ever wish to be. Sunder Armor + pommel strike +critical hit + gg ali



And yes and know I'm rooting for the underdog. But I have a reason. Alistaiars 'poke poke poke tell me all you want to know' convo tree seems prefabrecated (SP i suck) Sten's differes, he has a goal and a point of view. OMFG, brevity, and you gain favor?! HAX!!! Also he has a sense of honor and philospophy. Y'all can degrade that howver you want. In my mind Sten is one of the best written characters in Rpg history..not for what he says, but how he says it.



Measured words are a rarity in RPGs. The fact that Bioware is willing to let NPCs hold out on players says a lot. Just don't be one dimentional. I did toss Morrigan into the 'volcano' after all.

[Jinadan]

Greenaway wrote...

If the implied question was "who would win, the fully developed shield and sword tank Alistair or fully developed 2H DPS-er Sten" - Alistair wins.

Once again, either you're answering the question of which is the better spec tree, or which character would win in a fight. The answer to those two questions are mutually exclusive. The question doesn't even consider if it's to the death or a friendly duel. Though, I doubt Sten would be the sort to entertain a gentleman's duel.

[SBJ]

madskillet wrote...

alistair. the shield was one of the greatest inventions of all time and has a gigantic advantage over a 2 handed weapon.

I beg to differ. Shields would be of little use against most two handed weapons, as even a clocked strike would through the shield-bearer of balance due to the weight and inertia. Two-hander in scale-combat, would generally be used to make openings through shieldwalls for lighter infantry, and create gaps in pike-line defences to create gaps for cavallery.

In game-technical terms, Alistair might be able to win a fight in the lower levels. But 10- Sten would win most engagements against Alistair easily.

When you first meet Sten, and he dons the armour intended for him, he will generally have both superior armour and damage compared to Alistair.

If both were using Massive Plate, it still would leave Sten at an advantage.

In a more realistic point of view, Sten would again defeat Alistair without much fuzz. Grant that both wear heavy plate armour, Alistair would be hard pressed to actually deal damage beyond pain, while Stens 2-hander would function more like a canopener against Alistair and Stens superior strength would yeild a significant advantage in a more realistic scenario compared to in-game. The first hit from Sten, would knock Alistair down, even if he failed to kill him.

[LunSei Sleidee]

Sten wins, of course! Alistair's too pantsy to even attempt fighting back. He'd probably spend half of the battle saying "Can't we talk it out instead??? With wisecracking and sarcasm?? Duncaaaaan help meeee".

[Estelindis]

I think Alistair generally has better staying power than Sten, so I'll say the templar.

[janus0891]

2H win easily because of armour penetration of his maul ....
Allistair is a tank , he can own any mage since he's a templar with cleanse area and holy smite /

but think about it one second . Sten can't be knocked down by the weak shield bash stuffs , Sten will smash  his armour to coins with the Maul  and deal great damage by spamming his sunder arm/armour double hits in Berserk mode and Reaver , he will do insane damage to Allistair whose only advantage on Sten will be armour and shield protection giving bonus to defence/armour  (not speed for the most part because Sten will spam talents ) , but all that is negelected by the Maul and the fact that you can't avoid pommel strike ... you can't avoid being "sunder-ed" to death .. Allistair has no chance at equal level/gear quality

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 04:24 .

[SleeplessInSigil]

Dog!

[janus0891]

Greenaway wrote...

2H is pretty sucky. A good dexterity based dual wielding rogue in light armour kills Sten even easier than Alistair would. Stun-(multipoisoned)-stab-stab-stab-stab-combat stealth-rinse-and-repeat (and you would not have to repeat more than twice).

Your Rogue would be killed in 5 seconds ... Pommel strike .. you can't resist it as a Rogue   and you are on the floor waiting to get laid ... then critical strike in berserk mode ... you hp is destroyed ... sunder arm ... unavoidable... sunder armour .... you're dead plain and simple  ...

The only way Rogue would survive is by going stealth , forget about riposte and dirty fighting , indomitable makes it impossible to be stunned/knocked down , forget about it  .. you can cast mark of death , anything you want ,  you will be "pommel striked"  and wasted on the ground defenseless ... 

don't mess with 2H  , only Mages can mess with them in 1vs1 (and perhaps an optimized  warrior DW who can pass the physical resistance checks of the 2Hander's pommel strike and  2H sweep   )  ,  and that's if the 2H is not a Templar properly built ...

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 05:22 .

[aaronpr0n]

Alistair. Because Sten loses to everything, including some inanimate objects. Common problem with 2hand warriors I'm told.

[enderandrew]

Sten is a better pure fighter. Alistair's specific talents as Templar gives him benefits when fighting a mage, but won't help him against Sten.



Why is this even remotely a topic of debate?

[Girchou]

Silensfurtim wrote...

Sandal

I second that!

Modifié par Girchou, 23 décembre 2009 - 09:11 .

[Grommash94]

Sten. Easily.

[Dahelia]

Neither because Sten would walk away feeling bad for the near crying Alistair. Plus...Sten is too busy with cookies and cake.

[Damar Stiehl]

Alistair: Shield Wall, Battle Cry, Holy Smite, chop-chop-chop.

Sten: Stunned, Knocked Down, CHOOOOP, CHOOO... oops dead.



Tank > 2H scrapper. Sorry.

[Edelwolf]

sten is easy to hit and must be protected at all times



alistair is a decent tank and can survive well enough



stuns and knockdowns are out because alistair will be on shield wall and sten on indomitable

[DragoonKain3]

In game-technical terms, Alistair might be able to win a fight in the lower levels. But 10- Sten would win most engagements against Alistair easily.

So not true. An end-game equipped DEX-focused Alistair can easily reach base DEF in the 160's (even 170's is possible). Sten's attack rating (or any party member for that matter) would be lucky to hit over 110 even with end-game equips and you pump every point in STR. Meaning using in-game mechanics, Sten will NEVER be able to land a hit against Alistair, while Alistair just pokes Sten to death (doesn't matter what his damage is).

When you first meet Sten, and he dons the armour intended for him, he will generally have both superior armour and damage compared to Alistair.

Doesn't matter one whit when Sten can't hit Alistair aside from the occasional pommel strike.

If both were using Massive Plate, it still would leave Sten at an advantage. 

A properly min/maxed Alistair for DEF would only have 26 STR at most, since all the DEF/DEX increasing equips are light armors.


So yeah, with in-game mechanics, Alistair wins against Sten HANDS DOWN if you min-maxed Alistair for DEF and Sten for damage/ATK.

If we're talking about outside the mechanics, I'd put my money on Sten. 2Handing beats shields in real life after all, as other people here have pointed out.

[bobtheworm]

I've done this battle in Andraste's Temple. Alistair won in a Landslide. Sten can swing his sword all he wants but if Alistair has a 96 physical resistance it doesn't mean anything. Plus Shield Bash and shield pummel makes a difference. Holy Smite does damage to everyone but removes mana from mages.



Trust me, Alistair wins. This isn't even a battle. A better matchup is Ohgren and Alistair. At least Ohgren has a better Physical resistance than Sten.

[janus0891]

Damar Stiehl wrote...

Alistair: Shield Wall, Battle Cry, Holy Smite, chop-chop-chop.
Sten: Stunned, Knocked Down, CHOOOOP, CHOOO... oops dead.

Tank > 2H scrapper. Sorry.

One more time my friend ... a 2H CANNOT be stunned or Knocked down thanks to indomitable
If Sten or any 2H get KD or stunned , then he's doing something wrong

So no Chhoop , chooo i'm afraid .... By the way  , most 2H will pass physical resistance check of holysmite , they are no mage pumping everything into magic  (and 2H is the best Templar build possible because 2H can afford to ignore Dex for Will  ...)

Shield wall is for mobs (gets you immuned to KD , but not stuns .... and more importantly , reduces your damage , increase fatigue  and doesn't prevent ALL 2H talents as well as his armor crushing  Maul  to make their  job  properly ..)  

Sten with a baddass maul , berserk and hig will and  sky high strength will make short work of anyone in armor  ,  2H are the most efficient against single armoured targets (with Cun Rogues/daggers)  , that is exactly what is Allistair ...  Sword and shield has nothing that cannot be resisted by 2H  ... forget about shield bash , pommels ... this is for weak opponents , not 2H  ...  think "Indomitable"


If you lose with Sten , it means  either you built Sten badly , Sten has no Fade points ( going to Fade = taking something like 5 additional levels if not more since there are about 20 points to take ) ,  you have poor equipment and tactics  , Allistair is several level higher etc...

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 11:59 .

[janus0891]

DragoonKain3 wrote...

So not true. An end-game equipped DEX-focused Alistair can easily reach base DEF in the 160's (even 170's is possible). Sten's attack rating (or any party member for that matter) would be lucky to hit over 110 even with end-game equips and you pump every point in STR. Meaning using in-game mechanics, Sten will NEVER be able to land a hit against Alistair, while Alistair just pokes Sten to death (doesn't matter what his damage is).

2H = Talent spamming ... one should not  forget this


you can have as much dex as you want , it's a 1vs1 fight ,  Sunder arm/armor won't miss  ....  and Shield wall doesn't get you immuned to stuns ...   and that means Sten  can stun you  easily and finish you off  ....

it's a 1vs1 fight .... Duel ..  2H if built correctly   has more than enough stamina to make short work of any tank with any dex   , no Sword and shield talents have any effects against indomitable , think about it .... your only hope is to evade the 2H auto-hits , but  no strong 2H will rely on auto-hits ... and you will have to  because all your shield pommel , bash etc.. are for weaklings AI , not hgh level  PC 2H built correctly

Modifié par janus0891, 24 décembre 2009 - 12:14 .

[Never]

Alistair, because I would stabby stab Sten when no one was looking.