92 réponses à ce sujet

[janus0891]

Yes Allistair is a tank , built correcty , it's the best unit for surviving mobs , he will last longer and give better service to the party no doubt



but we are talking about 1vs1 here . Allistair is a tanker-defender , a 2H is a destroyer , destroyer wins easily because of indomitable , talent spam (sunders+2sweep) , unability of Allistair to use anything useful and also because armor and dex is weaker than armour penetration and high strength in 1vs1

[Invalidcode]

Sunders can miss, it just won't show 'Miss'. Missing both hits is rare, but it could happen.



And everyone assume Alistair must be S&B and Sten must be 2H, hah.

[bobtheworm]

janus0891 wrote...

Yes Allistair is a tank , built correcty , it's the best unit for surviving mobs , he will last longer and give better service to the party no doubt

but we are talking about 1vs1 here . Allistair is a tanker-defender , a 2H is a destroyer , destroyer wins easily because of indomitable , talent spam (sunders+2sweep) , unability of Allistair to use anything useful and also because armor and dex is weaker than armour penetration and high strength in 1vs1

I am telling you I have done this battle, high end in Andraste's Temple when you fight clones of yourself. I built Sten to be a beast but Alistair still handled him without sweating. But I guess to Sten's defense, Alistair did have Starfang and Sten was using the dragon stayer 2hander. But I don't think it was the difference. Even if Alistair had the Topsider's Honor and Sten Had the 2h Starfang, the way the battle went Alistair would have still beat him. Sten just has no physical resistance where Alistair is nothing but physical resistance. Ohgren is a better battle than Sten.

[janus0891]

Invalidcode wrote...

Sunders can miss, it just won't show 'Miss'. Missing both hits is rare, but it could happen.

And everyone assume Alistair must be S&B and Sten must be 2H, hah.

At high levels , It won't miss when you have sky high strength mate

At best , in a 1vs1 fight , it will miss once or twice  , but since every single S/S talent has no serious effect whatsoever against indomitable , this is the kind of fight a 2H would love , because 2H by definition are armor waster type of character and S/S is all about armour and defence , S/S is all about teamwork/party support  , 2H is about taking anyone 1vs1 (even though he has 2H sweep talent that can kill 6-7 white guys in one shot ) , even bosses , for example , good luck finishing the game solo in nightmare with a S/S , with a 2H you can


Bob , 2H should have high physical resistance (unless you want a grandmaster Templar/Champion  based on strength and willpower with only 20 con )  and very high strength .   What S/S should have over 2H is defence (dex)  and armour .  that's the only thing S/S should have over 2H if you built 2H correctly IMHO .


Also , the battle you made in Andraste temple is  human vs AI or at best  , it is AI vs AI  , and it's not really a duel but party vs party  ,  and since human is vastly superior to AI tactic wise   ... 

Modifié par janus0891, 24 décembre 2009 - 12:57 .

[bobtheworm]

Sten was all str, Alistair was dex up to 34 and than all str. Alistair wore the Blood dragon armor and carried the starfang. Sten had Wade's massive Dragonbone armor and the dragon slayer 2her. Skillwise, Alistair had all of S&S skils, warrior, Templar. Sten had all 2her skills, warrior, and templar. Sten was set to be a scrapper, Alistair was controlled by me. it was assault, pummel, bash, assault, pummell, bash.... etc.....

wasn't close.

Modifié par bobtheworm, 24 décembre 2009 - 01:00 .

[Invalidcode]

janus0891 wrote...

At high levels , It won't miss when you have sky high strength mate

I stated it will be an rare event but who knows what happen when you put a min/max 2h against a min/max tank. I have both but I can't have them fight 1v1. I know what a max str 2h can do, my 2h warrior dumps all stats point into str.

Do someone got a mod that let you put your customzied character fight each other. (something like the nwn2 arena mod...)
BTW even when sword and shield talent can't stun they got some use. Shield pummel and assualt out damages auto attack. And reaver is a pretty good spec for tank, freighnting appreance work against indomiable.

But game mechs aside? The fight won't finish. Alistair just have too many ways to stop Sten.
For example:
Grab a kitty as hostage.
Grab a cookie.

[bobtheworm]

also, i only used the skill sparingly because skill damage didn't add rune damage.

[Bomfy]

Sten would have quite the psychological advantage over Alistiar if that could come into play. After all he has so few things to say for such a big guy.

[janus0891]

Sadly , i don't think such a mod exists Invalidcode.

Bob , shield pummel , shield bash shouldn't work against indomitable ..

Also next time take Sten , build it properly and face the AI Allistair , the fight might  be as one sided as the first one if you have good willpower and start spamming him ,  and the main reason is that yu're a human ad he's AI  ,   well it's just my opinion , i respect yours

Modifié par janus0891, 24 décembre 2009 - 01:03 .

[Jestert]

sten will win.  Indominable will makes most of Alistar's talents useless.  While Sten can debuff Alistar and out DPS him.

[Invalidcode]

janus0891 wrote...

Sadly , i don't think such a mod exists Invalidcode.

Damnit, actually it would be fun to make one...Having all my PC fight each other. Just think about it...I got 3 rogues that have combat stealth....mix my 3 other warriors in there...damn epic fight.

[Tirigon]

If they would fight, Alistair would start with cracking a joke. Sten would use this as a distraction and hit Alistair in the face with his hammer, what would pretty likely end the fight already.

Winner should be clear after this description, but to make sure everyone understands me: I bet Sten wins.

[bobtheworm]

Invalidcode wrote...

janus0891 wrote...

Sadly , i don't think such a mod exists Invalidcode.

Damnit, actually it would be fun to make one...Having all my PC fight each other. Just think about it...I got 3 rogues that have combat stealth....mix my 3 other warriors in there...damn epic fight.

I agree though I think mage and rogues have an advantage over warriors if it was pvp area. my rogue has carries starfang with two grandmaster paralys runes and a master paralys rune. He went though loghain in the landmeet 1 on 1 like loghain was butter. My mage one on one just cone of cold, petrify, and paralys over and over.

[janus0891]

Because AI  Loghain  isn't a Templar with high willpower

Templar vs Mage is on the benefit of Templar because Cleanse Area cannot be resisted by any Mage , and with high enough willpower you can even get more than half his hp gone with spirit damage and him stunned waiting to be finished ( thanks to Holy Smite ) .


For example some people say that optimal Arcane warrior is overpowered , but in fact , it isn't true , it's because  Bioware have been kind with AI ...

AI are kind to arcane warriors and mages in general , because they do not cast dispel magic or cleanse area or glyph of neutralization often enough , thus Arcane Warrior can parade all the time with all their magic buffs on , but in fact an arcane warrior is weak next to a Templar or any Mage with dispel magic or neutralization Glyph )

A Templar can get the arcane warrior "naked" of his buffs  at the start of the fight (with the unstoppable cleanse area) and kill him easily cause arcane warrior has no time to re-activate his magic  buffs before being stunned/kd/killed

Modifié par janus0891, 24 décembre 2009 - 01:38 .

[bobtheworm]

that being said, templar is the best warrior class in game. Considering the ammount of mage class you run into in the game, it is good to have two templars in you party.

[DragoonKain3]

@Janus
Did you not read what I posted? An endgame Alistair can be min/maxed to have ~170 defense. Sten, even if you put every point he has from the level you got him towards STR, and gave him every +STR/+ATK equip, would be lucky to break 110 ATK. This means that according to game mechanics, Sten CANNOT hit Alistair PERIOD, since if the targets DEF exceeds your ATK by 50, you have 0% chance to hit.
 
And guess what? Every single talent a 2H has requires a hitroll. The only thing that does not require a hitroll would be Pommel Strike, but that does not do any damage does it?

And no, being knockdowned does NOT reduce your defense.

So yeah, Shield/DEX Alistair will win against 2H/STR Sten hands down according to game mechanics. Anyone who says otherwise obviously has not experienced proper DEX tanking in this game.

[janus0891]

I read your post mate , but firstly i didn't know that being knocked down on the floor didn't give defence penalties , and i also think that Alistair can easily be stunned if you max him like this .

Since he will not pass the physical resistance check  of holy smite , and since your allistair built like this would have a pathetic hp bar , just one "critical strike" (while you are stunned by holy smite ) by a Sten with 100+ strength would be enough to kill your 170 def Allistair , well at least this is what i think unless you tell me that Allistair can't be stunned or that when stunned , his 170 defence still applies

Modifié par janus0891, 24 décembre 2009 - 06:10 .

[Stanley Woo]

No vs. threads, please. They both have the power of plot, so the author of the fight would determine who would win and how.



ENd of line.