19 réponses à ce sujet

[Strudo76]

Hi everyone
I bought NWN2, the OC and MotB a few years back, started the OC, but have never played any further than the first area in NW city. Had a couple of attempts since then, but just lack enthusiasm to continue by the time I get there. I've not even started a game of MotB. Hoping that people who know the game well might have some suggestions and insights for me. I really enjoyed the first NWN, SoU and HotU games when they were new, as they had great stories.

I think my biggest issue is the character I play. Generally I usually play a fighting type character as that seems to be all I can manage. I'd like to play a mage, but I find I tend to run out of spells too soon, and it doesn't feel right resting for 8 hours after fighting a couple of lizards. So I try a sorcerer or warlock so I don't run out of spells, but usually just fire magic missile at everything because I generally look through the spell list and find a couple of spells I think are useful, then just pick them for every choice. I feel like I'm missing the entire range of spells, but just can't see the benefit in other spells. The monk character sounds appealing, but I usually get stomped on before I get very far. I like rouges also, but also find I get crushed once I'm out in the open, after the first sneak attack. I generally end up starting several games and choosing the characters I'd like to play, but due to my lack of skills (and maybe lack of understanding of the game/D&D mechanics) I end up with a fighter or ranger. I take them to Neverwinter and by the time I get there it's all getting a bit samey, half because I'm playing the same character type and half because I've played that particular stretch a few times now.

I'm also by this stage getting annoyed with my next biggest issue, the AI controller characters. They always seem to be heading off to attack something way over there while I'm trying to set up a tactical position. I've played a bit with the AI behaviour options, but I rarely seem to find a happy place. In the end I generally put them into puppet mode, which I'm mostly happy with, but results in the lack of skill/understanding of my first issue affecting my entire party. Plus puppet mode doesn't activate by default and I'll mostly forget to do it for new members until it's too late.

So, any suggestions? Mods that might take care of any of it? Particular play styles to mix things up a bit? Is the trip to Neverwinter just really that tedious and I should just stick with it? Haven't looked at it for quite some time so I don't know what's around mod wise

[painofdungeoneternal]

As for the wizard, i'd say you got the wrong idea on how they work, they are all about using your brain long before resorting to magic, and at first level your crossbow and dagger tend to be your mainstays. If you want some detailed assistance, come on DungeonEternalX PW in action sometime ( it's in multiplayer ) and i can show you - send me a pm and hopefully we can be on during the same hours. That way you can make a wizard, i can make a wizard, and i can show you spells, items which help and what to focus on.



As for your companions, hit the space bar to pause folks. Hit V to bring up commands to control your companions. Tony k has also downloads to allow pause and play mode.

[Strudo76]

Thanks painofdungeoneternal, I don't get online too much these days, and I don't have it installed again yet. Where can I find this stuff by Tony K to have a look at?

[Arkalezth]

http://nwvault.ign.c...l.Detail&id=141
There.
You could try a Bard. It's funny, it has spells, it's powerful in combat, it's good in a party, has lots of skills, and if you take one Rogue level you can take care of locks and traps.
Something like this:
http://nwn.bioware.c...07389&gid=14504

Modifié par Arkalezth, 10 novembre 2010 - 09:49 .

[Tiskenburdle]

I agree with everyone above me.. Bards are probably the most diverse class and that seems to be what you want most of all.  Clerics are up there too, your choice of domains can completely alter the way you play them and as insanely powerful as they are, they certainly aren't the healers of old... Wizards and Sorcerers do also tend to rely more on summons, buffs, and basic weapons during the early levels, they get far more diverse as the game progresses.

All that said however, I don't think you should feel bad about resting after a fight.. Just imagine it takes 30 minutes instead. Resting a day is Pen and Paper rules, there are far fewer fights in Pen and Paper.. You could travel the entire continent and maybe get into 2-3 fights. It makes sense for resting to be for a day in that sort of setting. When fights are coming every 100 yards as is the case in Computer D&D, it's a different sort of setting that requires different rules. You shouldn't feel guilty about resting, as you generally would want to rest after every moderately strenuous fight.

For Tactics, once you see monsters hit pause and plan your attack.  Two absolutely essential mods for me are Kaedrin's Prc Pack and Tony's AI.  Those two mods will add a lot to your game I imagine and might shore up what seems to be missing for you.  Both make it feel far more like a PnP experience.

Modifié par Tiskenburdle, 15 novembre 2010 - 07:44 .

[The Fred]

Fighter-types in NWN are, in my opinion at least, the more boring characters... however, they're also easier to play. A wizard or something is more to my taste, but *is* kinda tricky at low levels. I would also say that I played a Warlock in the OC and it got a bit "samey" after a while too, since you get so few spell choices.

Clerics are probably a good class to take since they can be played much like wizards, but get more health and proficiencies. They are also pretty powerful (some might say overpowered) so are a nice choice for beginners or if you're struggling. Bards *are* nice and diverse, but I don't personally think they're so easy to play. If you are a Cleric, you can buff up with your spells first, and use any offensive ones you have, then fall back to being essentially a fighter afterwards without having to worry about being as fragile as a wizard or sorcerer (I'm talking in terms of low levels here).

Modifié par The Fred, 15 novembre 2010 - 11:42 .

[Arkalezth]

You can do the same with a bard (ok, offensive casting is not bards' bread and butter, but neither clerics', and they have a couple offensive spells). More diversity may sound as harder to play, but I don't find them that different in playstyle.

Personally, I find clerics (read: buffing) pretty boring, unless I use some kind of buffing rod, though I agree they're good for beginners.

Another option which, surprisingly, nobody mentioned, is Eldritch Knight. My first character ever in NWN2 was one of those. If you want to be a melee/caster hybrid, it's probably the best option. You can argue that cleric is better for newbies because it's a base class and you can be pure, but a mage only need Martial Weapons to qualify for EK, so it isn't that complicated.
All of these three classes are good and can use both weapons and spells. Cleric is maybe the easiest, but not by much IMO.

That said, first: you may get bored of playing any type of character, that's pretty common, and second: the OP hasn't said anything since almost a week, maybe (s)he's already playing the game.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 16 novembre 2010 - 12:41 .

[Strudo76]

Haven't started playing yet, but I do appreciate the replies and advice. The bard character sounds very interesting, as a bit of humour is always a plus for me. Never even considered one before. The advice about the wizards and cleric characters also sounds like it might be worth another crack. I think if I can just get past the lower levels, I'll do all right. Need to change my thinking a bit in order to get that done by the sounds of what everyone has recommended.



Still need to get round to installing it again though. Hasn't made it back on since the last system format. This was going to be my Civ 5 time, but that game needs some work.

[xate101]

Yeah it can be tedious starting as a Wizard/Sorcerer. When I was going through my first run of the OC with a Sorcerer, I nearly stopped playing the character because I couldn't do anything with him, but I stuck with him because i knew how powerful he can be after a few levels. Once I reached the 3rd level of arcane spells, it got really enjoyable because you could access spells like fireball.

[The Fred]

Playing any kind of caster can be tricky early on since you have very few spells and need to rest often. Make sure you get a ranged weapon like a crossbow (if you are an elf you could get a longbow) so that you can attack people without risking your neck... save your few spells for when they're really needed. Summoning spells aren't as powerful as they were in NWN1, but a summon can still be handy at these levels.

I only suggest a Cleric because they're both easy to play and flexible. At early levels, you can be a slightly less good fighter but with a couple of buffs and heals (using one or two buffing spells is not that tedious). At higher levels, you can play them as fighters (usually with Divine Power), offensive casters (not really their forte, but they do have plenty of offensive choices) or as the support role I imagine they were intended to be.

A Bard is a nice choice but given you get very few spells indeed, it can be frustrating to have to manage them, especially if you are already finding a low-level wizard awkward.

Modifié par The Fred, 16 novembre 2010 - 01:50 .

[Arkalezth]

Yes, Cleric is probably the most forgiving of those classes. Heavy armor, and all that.

Another option would be a Druid. Not as newbie-friendly as Cleric, but you can also play one in different ways.

[The Fred]

Personally I think a Druid is like a more fun Cleric, but probably less powerful. However, Druids are supposed to be at least as easy at low levels, so it might even be more beginner-friendly since by the time Clerics overtake Druids, you are at a stage where you can deal with it more easily. However, losing Spontaneous Casting for heal spells might hurt a bit.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Just remember it's not really the class which a truely new player is learning, it's the game itself and how it works. He needs something which he enjoys as he goes, which allows him to experiment and not lose all the time, but which is simple enough so he can focus on the real basics, and which works well despite many mistakes.

Clerics fill this role nicely.

You can do almost any type of playstyle, from sneaking dark and evil trickster, to a pure spellcaster, even to a archer or paladin type. They are on the powerful side right out the gate, tend to get full plate armor, shield, and if there is a problem you can dip into your spell book to solve almost anything.

I know quite a few brand new players who just had no idea how to memorize, learn and cast a spell for example. A starting cleric is really just a fighter with some heal spells.

As they progress i really don't know yet, nor do they, what they actually like to do while they play, but with a cleric they can try things out and might learn they just like hitting things with a sword, or they like blowing things up with flamestrikes.

I don't think a truly new player can learn what you really prefer just by reading nwn2wiki, or by having someone hand you the perfect build, but with so many games based on D&D they might be able to know they want something specific right off the bat. It is a lot better for them if they get a taste of it themselves instead of just relying on what someone else's preferences are.

Once they get comfortable they should know enough what they actually want to do on their own.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 17 novembre 2010 - 10:01 .

[The Fred]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
I know quite a few brand new players who just had no idea how to memorize, learn and cast a spell for example.

So, like, believe it or not, but your spells come back when you rest. This totally blew my mind.

[manageri]

Well first of all, forget about the AI. It's absolutely moronic no matter how many mods you download and how many settings you tweak. I tried playing with AI on for years and finally got to the point where I couldn't stomach playing with companions, period. It doesn't really matter in the OC since you can beat it while having your companions running around punching stuff naked but it'll make you rage if you play something harder. Now I'm learning to play with full puppet mode 24/7 and not having to mentally yell at the ****ing idiot companions charging into blade barriers, rogues swapping to melee weapons when I just want them to shoot from close range to utilize sneak attacks and subsequently getting their face smashed, wizards backing away from enemies and running into traps or needless AoOs, and last but not least some moron ALWAYS shooting the next pack of enemies that's 5 miles away and hasn't even seen us yet as soon as the current pack is dead and causing a wipe because half my party was down and the survivors are completely out of spells etc. instantly makes the game 10 times better. I do recommend downloading Tony K's mod just for enemy use though.



Since you're not new to nwn or d&d in general I also recommend playing with the hardest difficulty setting from the start since the nwn2 OC is one of the easiest games ever. Playing on the recommended level just means Elanee's buffs + Khelgar = entire zone dead while you make a sandwich, which isn't so much playing as it is clicking npcs and watching them die. You also might wanna cut back on the number of party members as soon as possible. It sounds like you might be having a bad time because the game is so ridicilously easy without realizing the difficulty is what's making it feel like crap, at least spicing up the difficulty has helped me make mods more enjoyable many times.

[Arkalezth]

Not everyone wants to micromanage everything.

You can set your Rogue to not auto-change weapons, if that's what you want, or the Wizard to not back away. Traps are meant to be activated, anyway.

I always play on hardcore, double damage from enemies sounds stupid to me. Maybe it works in the OC, but I'd been crushed on most modules I've played if I had played them in the hardest difficulty setting.

BTW, you should have a document in your Tony K's folder with some tips on how to use the AI. It's not perfect, but I recommend reading it if you haven't done it already (this is for everyone).

Modifié par Arkalezth, 20 novembre 2010 - 05:44 .

[manageri]

I've done all that, tried different things, but there's never anything that works as well as just managing it yourself. If I don't have the rogue swap weapons then he will continue to fire the bow while enemies melee him and take unnecessary AoOs. If the wizard doesn't back away, he also gets molested unnecessarily. In the end I have to control them myself in both situations if I want them to act appropriately so it's better not to have any delusions about them being able to manage themselves. Did you notice both your solutions to these AI issues was in fact less AI autonomy and instead doing things yourself, which is exactly what I suggested? I also don't necessarily WANT to micromanage everything but the game forces you to do it if you want your party not to act like morons. The only way to not have your party members regularly do idiotic things is puppet mode, that's just how it goes in this game (and every other similar RPG).



As for the difficulty, I did say specifically it's for the OC. I personally use it as the starting point for all community modules as well since many of those aren't very challenging either but it obviously depends on the mod, and of course using puppet mode lets you execute more precise strategies with aoe spells and stuff like that which has a huge impact on difficulty. I can understand that if you really hate the puppet mode then allowing your companions to run free and do some occasional stupid stuff can be a more enjoyable way to play the game though. I just really hate dying in games because some ****** NPC did something obviously idiotic that I did not order him to do.

[The Fred]

AI is a tricky business. Trying to program a computer to be able to adapt to different situations (and in particular handle positioning and things) is pretty hard in any game, let alone something with as many variables as D&D-based NWN. I find it's just better to play the wizard and let the AI handle the fighter-types (still annoying when they run off, but at least the don't make stupid spell choices). The thing that got me most was the warlock AI - for something that simple, you'd think it'd be better, but in the vanilla game, at least, warlocks tend to use essence-less blasts as often as not with no real gain whatsoever.

[Arkalezth]

Yeah, that's annoying. I also tried to set the AI the other day for a Warlock to cast buffs and then attack in melee (it was a strange Warlock), and he sometimes used melee, and sometimes blasts. I also had problems with a Monk/Druid. It's explained here (last post):

http://social.biowar...index/5084372/3

I also hate the tendency of FBs to use Frenzy when they're at medium-low health, sometimes dying in the process.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 22 novembre 2010 - 06:06 .

[The Fred]

That *is* annoying, but you've just given me an interesting idea. Watch this space. ;-)