325 réponses à ce sujet

[Leonia]

And even if it is true, that elves were immortal, how does that explain that they were biologically different than the other races? If we could extend the human lifespan with the right sort of technology, would we cease to become human even though we still possess the same genetic code that we had before the "upgrade" ?

[Tiax Rules All]

I'd like to see a city Elf companion that is trying to be a hero and rolemodel for the Elven people, kinda like my City Elf Warden. One that is willing to do the right thing and join whoever can best help them do that. Not someone who hates Humans and is always bitter about it and complains to have to be with the protaganist, Like Valanna or like almost every Elf from Origins

[AlexXIV]

leonia42 wrote...

And even if it is true, that elves were immortal, how does that explain that they were biologically different than the other races? If we could extend the human lifespan with the right sort of technology, would we cease to become human even though we still possess the same genetic code that we had before the "upgrade" ?

Well we would have different genetic code, since it is this genetic code which makes us grow old and die. Which has a perfectly valid reason, evolution and population control. But then again different people do have different genetic codes anyway. There's no two of the same far as I know, even twins. Clones maybe.

Anyway the definition of 'human' would be made by humans, and that's subjective in any way. Why are animals or at least mammals not considered humans? Because humans said so.

[Addai]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I'd like to see a city Elf companion that is trying to be a hero and rolemodel for the Elven people, kinda like my City Elf Warden. One that is willing to do the right thing and join whoever can best help them do that. Not someone who hates Humans and is always bitter about it and complains to have to be with the protaganist, Like Valanna or like almost every Elf from Origins

Essentially in Zevran we already had a city elf companion.  He's not your typical alienage elf, but more a city elf than Dalish, as he even says himself.

Especially since there won't be a "camp," followers will be living in their own home environments, that sounds to me like an opportunity for a Dalish follower.  Just to throw out a scenario- Hawke saves Dalish Warrior's life and Dalish Warrior pledges to help him in the future as repayment of the debt, something like that.

Edit:  Oh, we also already know that Flemeth wants Hawke to deliver something to the Dalish.  So again, my gold sovereign is on a Dalish follower.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 novembre 2010 - 05:55 .

[Leonia]

AlexXIV wrote..

Well we would have different genetic code,
since it is this genetic code which makes us grow old and die. Which
has a perfectly valid reason, evolution and population control. But then
again different people do have different genetic codes anyway. There's
no two of the same far as I know, even twins. Clones maybe.

Anyway
the definition of 'human' would be made by humans, and that's
subjective in any way. Why are animals or at least mammals not
considered humans? Because humans said so.

Well, that's what I mean. We'd just change the definition of ****** sapien wouldn't we? But we're analysing this a bit too much. It was just supposed to serve as a metaphor that the elves weren't un-elven when they were immortal. It's also a bit tricksy to use real-life biology and laws of nature to describe something in a fantasy setting. While most of it is probably the same, there are bound to be a few quirky differences. Unless the writers are geneticists in disguise of course, and even then, that doesn't mean they would have drawn up several punnet squares during the "design the races of Thedas" process.

Modifié par leonia42, 10 novembre 2010 - 05:53 .

[Wulfram]

Addai67 wrote...

Essentially in Zevran we already had a city elf companion.  He's not your typical alienage elf, but more a city elf than Dalish, as he even says himself.

Zevran's as representative of city elves as Leliana is of Fereldens

[Tiax Rules All]

Addai67 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I'd like to see a city Elf companion that is trying to be a hero and rolemodel for the Elven people, kinda like my City Elf Warden. One that is willing to do the right thing and join whoever can best help them do that. Not someone who hates Humans and is always bitter about it and complains to have to be with the protaganist, Like Valanna or like almost every Elf from Origins

Essentially in Zevran we already had a city elf companion.  He's not your typical alienage elf, but more a city elf than Dalish, as he even says himself.

Especially since there won't be a "camp," followers will be living in their own home environments, that sounds to me like an opportunity for a Dalish follower.  Just throwing out a scenario, Hawke saves Dalish Warrior's life and Dalish Warrior pledges to help him in the future as repayment of the debt.

Your right of course. I kinda forget about Zevran when I wish for these things as I really couldn't stand Zevran in DAo and never took him, same with Valanna in Awakenings, so for me at least, I'm still waiting for my first acceptable Elven companion.

[Revan312]

I'd like to see half-breeds, they did it extremely well in Arcanum which had half-orcs, ogres and elves along with the other races and the dynamics were very interesting to see as neither half of the individuals race seemed to accept them well.

And about retconning, are we really gonna discuss that as a reason to exclude more diversity? Especially after they completely changed the darkspawn and Qunari? I mean if you guys saw a half-elf in the game would you just slam your head on the keyboard and refuse to play anymore? No, I really don't think anyone would mind in the end especially when it can give a dynamic that has yet to be seen in the lore.

Personally I see no problem with it and would really like to see some half-breeds including elves, the only thing that makes their exclusion sensible is the time/development constraints, but if those can be dealt with then I say bring on D the vampi... err opps, wrong universe

[Ziggeh]

Revan312 wrote...
Personally I see no problem with it and would really like to see some half-breeds including elves, the only thing that makes their exclusion sensible is the time/development constraints

A species in biology:

the major subdivision of a genus or
subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification,
composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to
breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of
another species.

Not that you can really hold it to that in a game in which "a wizard did it" is actually reasonable explanation, but still, it always bugs me.

[Tiax Rules All]

thank you Revan312 for making a post that I can acually fully agree with.

[Meltemph]

Retconning this early in the development of a setting would be the perfect time to do it assuming they wanted to. I don't see them wanting to change it though, could be wrong.

[Tiax Rules All]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Revan312 wrote...
Personally I see no problem with it and would really like to see some half-breeds including elves, the only thing that makes their exclusion sensible is the time/development constraints

A species in biology:

the major subdivision of a genus or
subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification,
composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to
breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of
another species.

Not that you can really hold it to that in a game in which "a wizard did it" is actually reasonable explanation, but still, it always bugs me.

So maybe thats why they are refered to as Races as opposed to Species..

nah, I hear ya, just dont want to listen

[Leonia]

I'd still like to see stronger arguments for what half-breeds could add to the story. We already have sub-groups within the races that already exist in Thedas so it seems, to me, that half-breeds wouldn't be adding anything actually new that can't be explained with another sub-group type.

[Maria Caliban]

Fortlowe wrote...

We know elven traits are overpowered by human genes. Dwarves and Qunari are still unaccounted for. For all we know human genes overwhelm Dwarf and Qunari genes as well.

No.

Elf + human = human
Elf + dwarf = dwarf
Dwarf + human = half-dwarf

If elves can breed with qunari, then they'd have a qunari. If humans or dwarves could breed with qunari, then you'd get a half-breed.

[Tiax Rules All]

Meltemph wrote...

Retconning this early in the development of a setting would be the perfect time to do it assuming they wanted to. I don't see them wanting to change it though, could be wrong.

unfortunately Bioware now hates half-races.. its the only real explanation.  Right Bioware? you hate half-races right?

/ trying to get Bioware to comment on my thread

[Revan312]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Revan312 wrote...
Personally I see no problem with it and would really like to see some half-breeds including elves, the only thing that makes their exclusion sensible is the time/development constraints

A species in biology:

the major subdivision of a genus or
subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification,
composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to
breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of
another species.

Not that you can really hold it to that in a game in which "a wizard did it" is actually reasonable explanation, but still, it always bugs me.

But again, we're talking races here, not species.. Elves have males/females, are bipedal, have the same intelligence, have the same hair, have the same skin colors, have the same social structure/family structure, are nearly biologicly identical to humans minus some cosmetic differences such as height/weight and facial/ear structure, barring the "immortality" debate.

And ya, even if they are different species, this is a game with undead, magic, dragons etc.. so having halfbreeds doesn't really break my suspension

[Maria Caliban]

Tiax Rules All wrote...



My arguement is the Lore is vague and was written to make up for the lack of technical time necessary to implement visually identifiable half-breeds.

We were told about the lack of elven/human half-breeds years before the game came out.

[Leonia]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Retconning
this early in the development of a setting would be the perfect time to
do it assuming they wanted to. I don't see them wanting to change it
though, could be wrong.

unfortunately Bioware now hates half-races.. its the only real explanation.  Right Bioware? you hate half-races right?

/ trying to get Bioware to comment on my thread

That's probably too overt, Tiax, try something a little more subtle.

Modifié par leonia42, 10 novembre 2010 - 06:47 .

[Herr Uhl]

Revan312 wrote...

I'd like to see half-breeds, they did it extremely well in Arcanum which had half-orcs, ogres and elves along with the other races and the dynamics were very interesting to see as neither half of the individuals race seemed to accept them well.

And about retconning, are we really gonna discuss that as a reason to exclude more diversity? Especially after they completely changed the darkspawn and Qunari? I mean if you guys saw a half-elf in the game would you just slam your head on the keyboard and refuse to play anymore? No, I really don't think anyone would mind in the end especially when it can give a dynamic that has yet to be seen in the lore.

There is a dynamic in the lore already, and it is one of the reasons that there are isolationist elves.

They changed the appearance of the Qunari and Darkspawn, they didn't wipe the slate completely when it comes to lore there.

[Tiax Rules All]

leonia42 wrote...

I'd still like to see stronger arguments for what half-breeds could add to the story. We already have sub-groups within the races that already exist in Thedas so it seems, to me, that half-breeds wouldn't be adding anything actually new that can't be explained with another sub-group type.

I can say the same thing about waiting for stronger arguement against NOT having them. I think a half-Elf companion could have some real great dialog ESPECIALLY in the DA universe with the conflict between Elves and Humans. You dont see the potental for great chracters/dialog/banter there?

[Leonia]

The half-elf role is filled by city elves..

[Herr Uhl]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I can say the same thing about waiting for stronger arguement against NOT having them. I think a half-Elf companion could have some real great dialog ESPECIALLY in the DA universe with the conflict between Elves and Humans. You dont see the potental for great chracters/dialog/banter there?

Or... or, we could have a human that was raised among elves. That would be about the same thing, just without the pointy ears.

[Tiax Rules All]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

My arguement is the Lore is vague and was written to make up for the lack of technical time necessary to implement visually identifiable half-breeds.

We were told about the lack of elven/human half-breeds years before the game came out.

Doesn't make my stetement untrue at all. My video game that I haven't started making yet wont have have half-breeds because I know I wont have time to implement them. The lore I write for it will justify it.

See I just did it too.

[Maria Caliban]

Revan312 wrote...

And about retconning, are we really gonna discuss that as a reason to exclude more diversity?

By this logic, they should have 12 classes instead of 3 because 12 is a bigger number than 3 and *other games* have more than three classes.

They decided against including half-breeds in the game for the same reason they dropped some of the other races: they don't want a ton of different races and breeds.

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Doesn't make my stetement untrue at all. My video game that I haven't started making yet wont have have half-breeds because I know I wont have time to implement them. The lore I write for it will justify it.

See I just did it too.

It makes your statement wishful thinking. If they *wanted* half-elves, they would have included them. But they didn't because they didn't want half-elves.

They weren't interested in a DnD like setting with a ton of races and half-breeds.

They also didn't include panda people. Is it because of technical difficulties? No, it's because David says he dislikes anthomophic races.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 10 novembre 2010 - 06:54 .

[Revan312]

leonia42 wrote...

I'd still like to see stronger arguments for what half-breeds could add to the story. We already have sub-groups within the races that already exist in Thedas so it seems, to me, that half-breeds wouldn't be adding anything actually new that can't be explained with another sub-group type.

They were essentially unwanted outcasts in Arcanum, having neither of their parent's races accepting them, and since there weren't many of them, they are pretty much on their own without any choice in the matter. Also non of the other races really trusted them as they didn't know which side that person was on or who they represented..

What they represent, at least in my mind, is a person without any group or sub-group to call their own. Which is a dynamic lacking in DA besides Morrigan, but again, she seemed to enjoy being a loner..