325 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I suppose but you dont know that because you havent played them. They have only announced Isi and Varric, how do you know there isnt a character left who you would replace. If my character was well done whi is to say it couldn't be your favorite, you really cant deny that.

I don't nor can I.  But nor could you make the opposite assumptions.  Maybe if they implemented a Half-Elf as you asked the execution would be poor and you hate it, feeling it was a missed opportunity.  Or maybe all of the unannounced companions are so interesting and memorable that you wouldn't want to lose any of them?  

It's not really the best foundation for an argument either way.  That's why I'm just saying meh to the whole half-elf thing in general, even if it's possible, even likely, there will be at least one unannounced character I won't be a fan of.

[AlexXIV]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

I really don't see the cost-effectiveness reason for the exclusion of half-elves. If you're going to shake a stick at anything, shake it at Gaider in that case for lack of what you'd consider world-building skills.

Well is it lack of skill if you have a different opinion? It actually makes sense in the lore that the elves for once lost their immortality by human presense, and also can only reproduce with their own kin. It keeps the two races from mingling. If you think about it, in most games/stories where there are half-elves it doesn't meake much sense. Why are there half elves and not quarter elves? Or Humans who had elven ancestors somewhere so they look like humans but age slower? In time 2 different races would mix up so much that you couldn't even name them anymore. Basically same like in the US where you have a melting pot of all races. Races would become irrelevant.

So the way it is in DA:O elves have to look after their children to marry only elves to preserve elven culture. The only thing I wonder and heard nothing of in DA:O is. If humans have the habit to rape elven females, then why don't any human children live with the dalish or in the alienage? Are they killed or given away? Strange ...

Races will still be races, the same way we have race. we are not all one big grey skinned, one toned master race. it doesnt happen like that in society

Give them 500 more years and see then. 50 years back we were not as open minded as today. Elves and humans have about thousand years of common history.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 10 novembre 2010 - 07:36 .

[Tiax Rules All]

maxernst wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

o kaay.. lets say I dont like pirates and Isabela's character instead was a half-Elf character like I want. The time to make my character wouldnt be any loger then the time to make Isabela. so, im trying to say that other things dont need to be sacrificed to implement my companion.

So you think Bioware should cater to your unique preferences and devote all the time and resources spent on making Isabela to make a companion just for you? 

Thats not what I meant, Im not the only person ever that could enjoy a well written half-elf character. Even if you are opposed to the idea now. Just because I hated shale doesnt mean Bioware cant later make another golem that I enjoy and totally changes my view on them

[Leonia]

I'd happily take on a city-elf companion who maybe lived some of their life with some Dalish and got to see a lot of both human and elven culture. That'd be an interesting companion to talk to, for sure.

[Revan312]

AlanC9 wrote...

You're q-f-t-ing something saying that elves are wrong about a basic fact of their own biology? Dude, I know Revan312 is all you've got for an ally, but really?

And apparently the darkspawn had to go to the cosmetic surgeon in Orlay.. They didn't "know" who they were supposed to be..  I was referring to the true impact of that lore.. I read the codex, had the convorsations with elves about it, but that was maybe... hmm, 25 seconds out the substantial amount of relevant lore to the story.

I could understand this being of concern if say they, changed the blight to being led by a fuzzy rabbit that came every April, but it isn't, the lore surrounding the racial properties and breeding facts of elves is so low on the totem pole of importance it's laughable that any of you would consider this more important than changing the darspawn into zombie's that used crest white strips..

[Herr Uhl]

Revan312 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

It bloody well is. Having a race that slowly dies from out-breeding if mixed with others is in the core of the elven lore.

Well until that becomes a large part of the game and isn't just a fleeting convorsation you have with a keeper apprentice then I might see it as a major part of the story, plus that's mythical stories from the elves, there's no basis in fact for anything they talk about concerning the tale of the Dales.

But last time I checked, killing the archdemon and the lore surrounding the darkspawn was the core point of DA:O..

Who cares if it is brought up a lot in the story? It is clearly stated that elves that mate with dwarves or humans become elves. Making the darkspawn look different is a whole different thing. I'd compare it with them making the darkspawn into zombies.

Edit: And I mean making them all into something akin to the ghouls by that.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 10 novembre 2010 - 07:41 .

[Nighteye2]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

First off I would really like to see info and pictures on Elves of DA2. I'm wondering if they have changed much or at all. Personally I would like to see them look more distinctly Elven then in DAo, maybe slightly larger eyes in addition to thier already established differences. So post any confirmed info and/or pictures here if/when we get them please.

Also I'd like to talk about Half-Elves and how they are handled in the DA universe and please, i'm talking about mating but lets keep it legit. Now I've looked up as much info as I can without acualy reading the calling or the stolen throne, so I'm not sure if i'm missing any info there..... 

From what I understand, the mating of Elves and Humans produce Human children. This contributes the the taboo of Elves mating and intermingling with Humans. That and it is thought that Elves have lost their immortality because of thier close proximity to humans in more recent history. So that being said there are many reasons why it is unlikely for Elves and Humans to mate. Still it is bound to happen both willingly and unwillingly.

In DAo, Elves were generally shorter, thinner, had distinctly elven facial features and of course had larger pointy ears. Lets put aside any other genetic, socialogical or pychological differences for now. I cannot get past the fact that the offspring of a Human and an Elf would produce a human with no Elf in him. Even among humans traits are passed from both parents. If a Human father had a large ears and a big nose those traits are (usually) tranferred. Why would the Elven half's size, ears, eye-color, features, (voice?) not be passed even if it was just to a small degree? I just can get past the vision of an Elven woman impregnanted by a Human male, carrying to term, giving birth to and raising a completely Human child.

It is harder to Imagine it as the way DA decribes it then they way D&D and most other fantasy to presents it.  Now I know it is completely up to Bioware to write it as they see fit but this is something I think should be changed for Dragon Age. If its too late for DA2 then maybe for DA3 and on.

My real theory on it is that it simply comes down to doing the work. With the new modern graphical engines, Bioware would have to make models for each race and also additional models and writing for half races. It was much easier to write the lore of DA to not include half races then to do the work to make them, so they were never implemented. Now, I get it, and dont blame them but lets make it happen for future iterations.

I can see a great companion someday who is Half-Elven and not only would they have a great unique look but delving into the back story of that characters family and childhood with the protaganist would be a great addition, What do you say guys? What do you say Bioware? Future Half-Breeds?

It's not what you think. Half-Breeds do exist in TheDAS, just not Half-Elven. I remember the devs confirming Dwarf/Human Half-Breeds existing, although those are rare because the chance of coupling and pregnancy are low.

Also, Elven genes are adaptive - meaning they mimic other genes, like human genes. Although it is possible for humans with elven parents to have some elven features - those humans are referred to as Elf-Blooded.

[Revan312]

leonia42 wrote...

I'd happily take on a city-elf companion who maybe lived some of their life with some Dalish and got to see a lot of both human and elven culture. That'd be an interesting companion to talk to, for sure.

But I'd hate that.. see what I did there?

[Leonia]

Revan312 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'd happily take on a city-elf companion who maybe lived some of their life with some Dalish and got to see a lot of both human and elven culture. That'd be an interesting companion to talk to, for sure.

But I'd hate that.. see what I did there?

Not really, no. I'm just saying why write in a half-elf when you pretty much can write in a city-elf who has all the qualities you want in this half-elf retcon concept.

[Tiax Rules All]

Revan312 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'd happily take on a city-elf companion who maybe lived some of their life with some Dalish and got to see a lot of both human and elven culture. That'd be an interesting companion to talk to, for sure.

But I'd hate that.. see what I did there?

I dont think he meant to specifically attack you Leona just the some of the opposition in general

[upsettingshorts]

My opposition was simply to respond to the "WHY CANT WE HAS" with "BECAUSE" not make some kind of statement about the objective truth of my position or something.

Sticking to "I WANT TO HAS BECAUSE" is cool, and then we could talk about ways to deliver that without violating canon, perhaps.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 novembre 2010 - 07:46 .

[Leonia]

Hey it's cool, this has been an interesting debate. Very civil so far.

[Tiax Rules All]

Gees, Revan, you'd think we were asking to romance flemeth or make griffons suddenly rule Thedas or something

[Revan312]

leonia42 wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'd happily take on a city-elf companion who maybe lived some of their life with some Dalish and got to see a lot of both human and elven culture. That'd be an interesting companion to talk to, for sure.

But I'd hate that.. see what I did there?

Not really, no. I'm just saying why write in a half-elf when you pretty much can write in a city-elf who has all the qualities you want in this half-elf retcon concept.

Did you read what I said about half-breeds?  About them being representative of total and complete outcasts who can't call any group home and have to live on their own against what they do or do not want?  Getiing blasted with racism from both sides?

Your example is still an elf, which can go live with other elves.. Which isn't at all what I was thinking about in concern to half breeds..

And again, darkspawn = retcon of a much more major degree than the tiny bit of lore surrounding elf/human copulation and offspring..

If written extremely well, people would forget the retcon almost entirely..

Modifié par Revan312, 10 novembre 2010 - 07:49 .

[AlexXIV]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'd happily take on a city-elf companion who maybe lived some of their life with some Dalish and got to see a lot of both human and elven culture. That'd be an interesting companion to talk to, for sure.

But I'd hate that.. see what I did there?

I dont think he meant to specifically attack you Leona just the some of the opposition in general

I think that he meant that tastes are different. I also see the advantage of half-elves over city elves. Simply half-elves don't really belong to either culture, neither humans nor elves, while city elves are clearly elven and halfblood-humans are clearly human.

[AlanC9]

Revan312 wrote...

And apparently the darkspawn had to go to the cosmetic surgeon in Orlay.. They didn't "know" who they were supposed to be..

 

I consider the art to be a representation of the game-world, not a photograph, so this argument has no force at all for me.

I was referring to the true impact of that lore.. I read the codex, had the convorsations with elves about it, but that was maybe... hmm, 25 seconds out the substantial amount of relevant lore to the story.



I could understand this being of concern if say they, changed the blight to being led by a fuzzy rabbit that came every April, but it isn't, the lore surrounding the racial properties and breeding facts of elves is so low on the totem pole of importance it's laughable that any of you would consider this more important than changing the darspawn into zombie's that used crest white strips..

Guess what -- we disagree. How about that!

Of course, that's easy for me because adding half-elves has zero value for me. If it had major value to me, I'd regret the lore. I still wouldn't support a retcon.

Modifié par AlanC9, 10 novembre 2010 - 07:50 .

[upsettingshorts]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Gees, Revan, you'd think we were asking to romance flemeth or make griffons suddenly rule Thedas or something

Just as out of place, but not nearly as creepy or silly.  I'll categorically restate that I don't think either of you is being unreasonable, I'm just not on board and would prefer:

1) Not having a character like that at all
2) Failing that, having a character who can best reproduce the same themes and personality without demanding a retcon

So naturally I'd prefer if the conversation were about #2, since there isn't gonna be any common ground whatsoever on #1.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 novembre 2010 - 07:49 .

[Fortlowe]

Everyone keeps telling me 'no' about dwarf or qunari genes possibly not overriding elf genes but nobody will point me to a source. I'm willing to accept it, but not as hearsay. Til then, I feel the only position to take is that human traits are dominant, but other races may not be so.

Modifié par Fortlowe, 10 novembre 2010 - 07:51 .

[Leonia]

Like I said, I won't be upset if a half-elf concept is added, just minorly annoyed. I am sure there are groups of outcasts in the world of Thedas some where who feel like they don't belong to any group. Whether that is racially related or not, who knows.

Modifié par leonia42, 10 novembre 2010 - 07:51 .

[Revan312]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Gees, Revan, you'd think we were asking to romance flemeth or make griffons suddenly rule Thedas or something

I refer back to the "Hawke should romance Bethany" threads that used to pop up.. *shudders*

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

Of course, that's easy for me because adding half-elves has zero value for me. If it had major value to me, I'd regret the lore. I still wouldn't support a retcon.

I never support retcons.

That said, was the human off-spring of humans and elves lore actually in DAO?  Or was it just something we learned here?

If the latter, then I don't think adding half-elves would be a retcon.

[Leonia]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Of course, that's easy for me because adding half-elves has zero value for me. If it had major value to me, I'd regret the lore. I still wouldn't support a retcon.

I never support retcons.

That said, was the human off-spring of humans and elves lore actually in DAO?  Or was it just something we learned here?

If the latter, then I don't think adding half-elves would be a retcon.

'Tis in the novels and possibly mentioned in a codex entry some where.

[AlexXIV]

Fortlowe wrote...

Everyone keeps telling me 'no' about dwarf or qunari genes possibly not overriding elf genes but nobody will point me to a source. I'm willing to accept it, but not as hearsay. Til then, I feel the only position to take is that human traits are dominant, but other races may not be so.

If what Sten said is true, elven females would hardly survive Qunari mating rituals, not to mention giving birth to a qunari babe. I'd just put that as the most unlikely thing to happen.

[maxernst]

AlexXIV wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I'd happily take on a city-elf companion who maybe lived some of their life with some Dalish and got to see a lot of both human and elven culture. That'd be an interesting companion to talk to, for sure.

But I'd hate that.. see what I did there?

I dont think he meant to specifically attack you Leona just the some of the opposition in general

I think that he meant that tastes are different. I also see the advantage of half-elves over city elves. Simply half-elves don't really belong to either culture, neither humans nor elves, while city elves are clearly elven and halfblood-humans are clearly human.

Realistically, though, a half-elf would belong to  whatever culture he was raised in.  Are you really visualizing him being shuffled back and forth between the two as if they had joint custody in a divorce court? 

Modifié par maxernst, 10 novembre 2010 - 07:55 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

leonia42 wrote...

'Tis in the novels

In the novels the darkspawn have black blood.  They're already not consistent with the game.

And on the subject of elves the codex is already unreliable.  Immortality.