13812 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
  I thought it was lacking in DAO, and somewhat present in TW1 (and TW2 so far) in quests that... didn't involve monster killing (save the Werewolf in TW1, which was my favorite monster quest.)

I love politics and can rarely abide playing a game without having a lot of it, and I thought Origins had a lot more than DA2 (I meann really, just my blog of Arcturus in my sig is indication on how much thought I've put into this). My two canon playthroughs are essentially condensed politics.

You had Orzammar. You had the Circle issue being introduced. Elves. The Civil war in Ferelden and the entire system in general (granted, could have been better done). You had the Landsmeet and the fate of Ferelden. Orlais (and with codices, regional politics). In Awakening, you had managing an Arling (did have a few political / military choices).

Of course not saying that what Origins had was excellent, I believe TW2 did it better. But in DA2? I really did not see it, or it really did not interest me especially by the end. Act 2 did, but not that much.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 mai 2011 - 03:18 .

[fightright2]

Wow, I stepped away in the middle of responding to the metacritic discussion on the last page and found that when I came back to post it, the discussion passed.

Now, I'm beginning to wonder if I should remove it and post it over at the other thread about metacritic.

[_Aine_]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yea, the VA were hit and miss, though I did not dislike Triss' VA. And I thought Iorveth sounded different somehow! But I forgot about the trailer.

But I thought Zoltan, Roche, Henselt, Foltest, Radovid (though I prefer him in TW1), Letho (his accent is strangely badass) had good VAs.

But yea, Bioware has better VA in general.

Yep, they do.  Voice-overs are a consistently strong suit for Bioware it seems.  

If you actually go back and compare the two Iorveth's tones, style, pitch etc.  you probably won't react like me where I wanted to gouge out my one eye and pour bleach in it to distract myself from the disappointment at the change (read:over-dramatization lol)  but it is a formidable change.  The new style isn't bad at all, and without the comparison would have been one of the better ones in the game frankly ( along with your list, which I agree with also and I loved Letho's voice) but the old one was so GOOD, deep, dark, intense, focused, and smooth.    Could be the same guy as much as I know, but the delivery is much different.   Sometimes it is the comparison of the old (at least in the small dose we heard it in) to the new that disappoints, rather than the performance itself ( the new one was still great!) 

Modifié par shantisands, 25 mai 2011 - 03:32 .

[Dreadstruck]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Avalla'ch wrote...

Smells like confirmation bias to me. Lemme enlighten you:
You realize than in the main saga the monster killing makes up only like.... 15% of the books?

Actually it's closer to ignorance than bias.   Because obviously I didn't realize that.  My assumption is based on in my brief experience with the lore  (all of TW1, a little bit of TW2) it's a lot more monster killing than that.  So on one hand, thanks for the info.

On the other hand, you're talking to someone who mostly reads nonfiction and historical fiction.  I haven't read any fantasy at all - minus a brief attempt at getting into Robert E. Howard - in years. 

So I get my medieval-era political intrigue fix from reading about... medieval-era political intrigue.  

Ah, sorry didn't knew that. Consider that as a blatant ignorance from my side then.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 25 mai 2011 - 03:16 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

GvazElite wrote...
If you never saw facial reactions then you weren't looking hard enough. Geralt rolls his eyes, smirks, shrugs his shoulders, etc

Hence why I said "virtually no".

Yea, there was a few facial expressions here and there, but not enough imo. ot necessarily talkign about Geralt, I think it somewhat suits his personality.

[Persephone]

RageGT wrote...

Unless in cases of colective hysteria, caused by some alucinogen gas or whatever, of course, life has thought me that when I'm on the side of the few that think something is bad but millions think it is good, it is probably good indeed. Same thing when a few think it's good and the huge majority thinks it is bad, usually it is bad. It has some exceptions like everything but.. just think about it.

No. By that logic, Lady Gaga is a better singer than Maria Callas. I'll never follow the herd. I like what I like and my opinion is the one that matters to me. I love TW2 myself. But people have every right to dislike it. (And by now the term overrated comes to my mind sometimes when I think of TW2........much as I adore it myself)

Modifié par Persephone, 25 mai 2011 - 03:18 .

[blothulfur]

There are issues with the game and it seems to have taken a lot away compared to the first witcher (such as deleting save games and modifying the controls in game, I smell consolisation), but overall i'm liking a living world that reacts to my actions in a mature and intelligent fashion and doesn't have me solving every problem through yet another series of waves of "awesome" while allowing me to explore the politics, ideologies and philosophies of both enemies and friends.

In fact screw it i'll wait 'til the patch tonight and restart just because I want to experience the cleansing sweetness of the assassins of kings washing away the foul taste of dragon age 2 and its non existent rise to power again.

[upsettingshorts]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You had Orzammar.

My favorite part of the game.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You had the Landsmeet and the fate of Ferelden.

My second favorite part of the game.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

In Awakening, you had managing an Arling (did have a few political / military choices)

My favorite part of DA:A.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But in DA2? I really did not see it, or it really did not interest me especially by the end. Act 2 did, but not that much.

I saw it in the majority of quests in the game.  I think we're operating under very different criteria as what constitutes the kind of opinion-having political content I described as your other examples strike me as expository in their nature. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 mai 2011 - 03:20 .

[XX55XX]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The implication of my post is that objectively speaking - as far as I'd been able to play which isn't very far - was that there wasn't much bad.

* English VAs are bad. Every time Triss talks it takes a not-insignificant amount of willpower on my part to not mash Escape and exit the game. I'm not even kidding.
* GUI is worse and pretty clearly targeted for eventual console adaptation. This is especially noticeable in the inventory grid being replaced by a list and the radial menu opened by control. Thankfully however there are keybinds to use as well.
* Some parts of the tutorial gave me instructions on how to do something after I did it. But I thought that was just funny.
* Targeting objects, such as loot or a wanted poster is much more of a chore than it ought to be.
* The paraphrases are about as accurate when it comes to indicating what Geralt will say next as the Mass Effect or DA2 ones, which is to say, good enough for me but plenty inaccurate still. ("Very funny = **** you").

But like I said, I really haven't played that long, and most of these complaints I'd categorize as extremely minor. Dave of Canada encountered an unrecoverable gamebreaking bug, and if that happened in my game I'd sure as heck mention that as a huge issue. Of course, it will be patched, but it would still belong in a review, for example.

1. Bad voice acting? What's wrong with Triss' voice, anyways? They actually recast the role for a different voice actress, and yes, while her voice acting lacks the oomph and dramatic tone that one would normally demand, I didn't find it bad at all. Sure, she often sounded like a maiden in distress who doesn't really care about anything, but was it bad? No? Didn't detract from my experience of the game at all.
2. Agreed on this point, but it's a very minor niggle - doesn't mean The Witcher 2 is a bad game.
3. Very nitpicky, again.
4. Agreed, but I didn't have that great of a problem with it.
5. Way more accurate than DA2, for certain.

Good thing to see that you are enjoying the game so far, however.

You also claim that The Witcher 2 is far less "political" than DA2. What exactly was "political" in DA2? Hawke could not alter the course of events, and everyone appeared mad. The political conflict in The Witcher 2 is far more well developed and more enjoyable to see unfold than hearing the people of DA2 drone on about the mage vs. templar conflict. At least a grand conspiracy was at play in The Witcher 2, whereas DA2 involved a very simple conflict.

[Persephone]

Jan Bartkowicz wrote...

I see you guys concerned with the way we treated Triss/Shani rivalry from the W1 ending up with a CANON solution (Triss) in W2.

We never wanted to make anything CANON, and I promise everything will be explained later on. Yes, Geralt ended up with Triss, but there were reasons behind it. We never used CANON solutions, and we don't want to start now

WOW WOW WOW. That's lovely indeed. I love Triss A LOT, but I was kinda miffed when my Shani save made zero difference. Can't wait to see just where you're going with this. And yep, awesome to see you here!<3

[XX55XX]

Persephone wrote...

Jan Bartkowicz wrote...

I see you guys concerned with the way we treated Triss/Shani rivalry from the W1 ending up with a CANON solution (Triss) in W2.

We never wanted to make anything CANON, and I promise everything will be explained later on. Yes, Geralt ended up with Triss, but there were reasons behind it. We never used CANON solutions, and we don't want to start now

WOW WOW WOW. That's lovely indeed. I love Triss A LOT, but I was kinda miffed when my Shani save made zero difference. Can't wait to see just where you're going with this. And yep, awesome to see you here!<3

I was extremely put off my that. I liked Shani a lot more - to me, Triss was quite the manipulative little you-know-what in The Witcher. I refused to save her in Act III, and for some reason, Letho decided to save her.

I hate canonic endings for this reason. For a game that emphasizes choice so much, this minor point did not even carry over!

[Gvaz]

fightright2 wrote...

Wow, I stepped away in the middle of responding to the metacritic discussion on the last page and found that when I came back to post it, the discussion passed.

Now, I'm beginning to wonder if I should remove it and post it over at the other thread about metacritic.

why remove it when no ones going to read it from now on anyways?

waste of effort imo, just repost it

also the UI is not a minor complaint.

[XX55XX]

GvazElite wrote...

fightright2 wrote...

Wow, I stepped away in the middle of responding to the metacritic discussion on the last page and found that when I came back to post it, the discussion passed.

Now, I'm beginning to wonder if I should remove it and post it over at the other thread about metacritic.

why remove it when no ones going to read it from now on anyways?

waste of effort imo, just repost it

also the UI is not a minor complaint.

It is. Very minor, actually. I didn't have a great problem sorting stuff in the inventory.

[Nerevar-as]

Was it even possible to end up with Shani? Geralt decided to break up with her in my game as it was too dangerous.

Can´t help thinking CDP pulled a DA2 Leliana here at a lesser scale.

[blothulfur]

Logically the voice acting is going to suffer because of translation problems so i tend to be a little forgiving on that point, hell I can't speak a word of polish so i'm not going to knock the dudes on their english prose.

Modifié par blothulfur, 25 mai 2011 - 03:28 .

[upsettingshorts]

XX55XX wrote...

1. Bad voice acting? What's wrong with Triss' voice, anyways? They actually recast the role for a different voice actress, and yes, while her voice acting lacks the oomph and dramatic tone that one would normally demand, I didn't find it bad at all. Sure, she often sounded like a maiden in distress who doesn't really care about anything, but was it bad? No? Didn't detract from my experience of the game at all.

I believe I described her performance earlier (as well as Dandelions) as sounding as if she is "reading from an encyclipedia entry she isn't even interested in."

XX55XX wrote...

2. Agreed on this point, but it's a very minor niggle - doesn't mean The Witcher 2 is a bad game.
3. Very nitpicky, again.
4. Agreed, but I didn't have that great of a problem with it.

I did say it was all minor.  My issues with the game I acknowledge are subjective.

XX55XX wrote...

5. Way more accurate than DA2, for certain.

Way more?  For certain?  I really doubt it.  And absolutely not with that level of confidence.   Obejctively speaking, DA2 had paraphrases and tone icons and clearly distinguishes between investigative responses (left side of wheel) and others.

XX55XX wrote...

You also claim that The Witcher 2 is far less "political" than DA2.

Actually,  I didn't say that.  I did say DAO was less political than DA2.  I also said that if TW1 and TW2 were exclusively focused on their political aspects and removed the monster killing parts, I'd like it more.  This all was and continues to be qualified by the fact I'm still in Flotsam.

XX55XX wrote...

What exactly was "political" in DA2?

Every single quest about the mage/templar conflict or the human/qunari conflict where, at any point, the game (via characters) asked me/Hawke for an opinion.  There are a lot of those. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 mai 2011 - 03:28 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

[quote]Upsettingshorts wrote...

[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You had Orzammar. [/quote]

My favorite part of the game.[/quote]

[quote]
[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You had the Landsmeet and the fate of Ferelden.[/quote]

My second favorite part of the game.[/quote]


[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...

In Awakening, you had managing an Arling (did have a few political / military choices)[/quote]

My favorite part of DA:A.[/quote][/quote]


Same.


[quote]
[quote]KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But in DA2? I really did not see it, or it really did not interest me especially by the end. Act 2 did, but not that much.
[/quote]

I saw it in the majority of quests in the game.  I think we're operating under very different criteria as what constitutes the kind of opinion-having political content I described as your other examples strike me as expository in their nature. 

[/quote]

Probably. I find it hard to think seriously about it when Kirkwall is infested with insanity, demons and too much incompetence. Especially in Act 3. 

So that's why I opted to focus more on the systemic level of analysis and just use Kirkwall as an example. But that's more Thedas being an interesting world (which Origins introduced), than DA2 being interesting (at least up close) for me.

As for the other examples being expository. That does not really remove the possibility of having a political opinion about them, especially since DA:O had several choices directly related to each, where political opinion can be applied as part of your rationale. Both in the middle of the game and at the very end (the boon). 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 mai 2011 - 03:30 .

[Romantiq]

XX55XX wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The implication of my post is that objectively speaking - as far as I'd been able to play which isn't very far - was that there wasn't much bad.

* English VAs are bad. Every time Triss talks it takes a not-insignificant amount of willpower on my part to not mash Escape and exit the game. I'm not even kidding.
* GUI is worse and pretty clearly targeted for eventual console adaptation. This is especially noticeable in the inventory grid being replaced by a list and the radial menu opened by control. Thankfully however there are keybinds to use as well.
* Some parts of the tutorial gave me instructions on how to do something after I did it. But I thought that was just funny.
* Targeting objects, such as loot or a wanted poster is much more of a chore than it ought to be.
* The paraphrases are about as accurate when it comes to indicating what Geralt will say next as the Mass Effect or DA2 ones, which is to say, good enough for me but plenty inaccurate still. ("Very funny = **** you").

But like I said, I really haven't played that long, and most of these complaints I'd categorize as extremely minor. Dave of Canada encountered an unrecoverable gamebreaking bug, and if that happened in my game I'd sure as heck mention that as a huge issue. Of course, it will be patched, but it would still belong in a review, for example.

1. Bad voice acting? What's wrong with Triss' voice, anyways? They actually recast the role for a different voice actress, and yes, while her voice acting lacks the oomph and dramatic tone that one would normally demand, I didn't find it bad at all. Sure, she often sounded like a maiden in distress who doesn't really care about anything, but was it bad? No? Didn't detract from my experience of the game at all.
2. Agreed on this point, but it's a very minor niggle - doesn't mean The Witcher 2 is a bad game.
3. Very nitpicky, again.
4. Agreed, but I didn't have that great of a problem with it.
5. Way more accurate than DA2, for certain.

Good thing to see that you are enjoying the game so far, however.

You also claim that The Witcher 2 is far less "political" than DA2. What exactly was "political" in DA2? Hawke could not alter the course of events, and everyone appeared mad. The political conflict in The Witcher 2 is far more well developed and more enjoyable to see unfold than hearing the people of DA2 drone on about the mage vs. templar conflict. At least a grand conspiracy was at play in The Witcher 2, whereas DA2 involved a very simple conflict.

Witcher 2 less political than DAII? You've gotta be f...kidding me :lol:
You're the shining example an extremely nitpicky character, Upsettingshorts. Judging from your posts it appears that you hate any sort of gameplay except for dialogues in video games. Perhaps you shouldn't be playing games at all? Ask yourself that.

PS. DAO has far more politics involved than DAII. If you consider finding a Viscount's brat - politics, then I don't know what to tell you.

Modifié par Romantiq, 25 mai 2011 - 03:31 .

[DragonRageGT]

Well, I acknowledge some of the flaws both U.S. and KoP pointed out. But they are still irrelevant to my game or as mentioned, extremely minor issues. They can be fixed with mods, patches, whatever. Except the VA which I have no say about. It is not my language but it works very well for me since it's the only one I can understand of the whole language pack the game has. It's not worse than what I've hear in many feature films which I worked on the translation into Portuguese-BR. Actually, it is much better than some!

I like paraphrase system better than in MEs and DA2. The Persuasion/Intimidation/Charm options are cool and some dialogue choices will reflect longer past a reload point to fix that damn mistake!

I have a major criticism about the "unresponsive commands" (makes me mad) but I think it is a bug and not only it will be fixed, it happens very scarcely to me. In a few battles (and always the same fight and spot in the area) when I try to cast a sign, Geralt just stand there idle and either I move and it works on next action or I keep pressing the key for the sign or "use magic" (I use the 5-9 keys more) for some 5-10 seconds before it works and that's long enough to die sometimes. Hate dying or being at risk because of a bug. Insane for me,only when it's fixed!  (and yeah, the vigor bar has enough vigor to cast the sign. It doesn't make that sound when we try to cast without enough vigor). A few times I try attack and Geralt does not strike after the first attack but I blame that in my not mastering fully the combo timing.

And I though it is a "coincidence" to have this revien opening by mentioning Flotsam.

http://www.eurogamer...of-kings-review

Flotsam's beautiful. Everything from the architecture, to the conversations you overhear, to the tasks given to you by the nervous inhabitants - it's all breathtakingly believable. Flotsam being a disgusting and dangerous place, both materially and morally, isn't the point. The point is that - as you watch a butcher hack a cow apart under a pale sun and listen in on a conversation about who shagged who last night - the setting is real enough that you'll actually be disgusted, and feel in danger.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Romantiq wrote...
Witcher 2 less political than DAII? You've gotta be f...kidding me :lol:

TW2 is indeed full of poitics and that's why I think it's a sexy game.

I have to ask. Siding with Roche gives a lot of political choices and variations. Does siding with Iorveth provide that? From what I understand his path gives us more insight on Saskia (whom I find intriguing), Aedirn, Philipa Eilhard and I assume more perspective on the Lodge.

[upsettingshorts]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

As for the other examples being expository. That does not really remove the possibility of having a political opinion about them, especially since DA:O had several choices directly related to each, where political opinion can be applied as part of your rationale. Both in the middle of the game and at the very end (the boon). 

Yes and no.  Take the city elves for example.  I was introduced to the fact they had a plight, and that it sucked.  But what quests were there that directly allowed The Warden to express an opinion on it in any significant way, provided he/she was not themselves a City Elf?

Well, you could make a deal with the slaver and he could keep his slaves.  But that's really a good vs. evil choice to me, and it was easily made.  Few characters I could come up with would have made that deal. 

Mage vs. Templar is a bloody mess, and a big part of that is the insanity and incompetence of various figures in Kirkwall, but that also makes it muddy.  And I like that.    But this is a DAO vs. DA2 discussion we're in now.

TW1 I thought did the political stuff pretty well, even if I leaned heavily towards Order (Neutral would be second choice, I didn't know it was possible at the time).  TW2, the parts I saw, were interesting too.  I just need to eventually muscle through the bits I simply don't care about to experience the rest, and I will, because TW2 is a good game.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 mai 2011 - 03:39 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

RageGT wrote...
I have a major criticism about the "unresponsive commands" (makes me mad) but I think it is a bug and not only it will be fixed, it happens very scarcely to me.

It happens to me only with rotfiends. Sometimes, I can't seem to be able to strong attack them.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Romantiq wrote...
Witcher 2 less political than DAII? You've gotta be f...kidding me :lol:

TW2 is indeed full of poitics and that's why I think it's a sexy game.

I have to ask. Siding with Roche gives a lot of political choices and variations. Does siding with Iorveth provide that? From what I understand his path gives us more insight on Saskia (whom I find intriguing), Aedirn, Philipa Eilhard and I assume more perspective on the Lodge.

I'm still in the middle of the Iorveth path....but KOP, I think you're gonna love it. Some choices are fiendishly difficult. (Prince Stennis......) And if you like Roche.....he's not out of the picture depending on how you decide.......when I met him again during a certain scenario.....it was awesome.

[upsettingshorts]

Romantiq wrote...

Witcher 2 less political than DAII? You've gotta be f...kidding me

I didn't say that.  I said it was more political than DAO.  I also said if TW1-2 was entirely politics I'd like it more.  

Romantiq wrote...

You're the shining example an extremely nitpicky character, Upsettingshorts. Judging from your posts it appears that you hate any sort of gameplay except for dialogues in video games. Perhaps you shouldn't be playing games at all? Ask yourself that.

Uh, what!?  You need to re-read the context of that post again.  I said that if I was writing a professional review I'd keep my subjective dislike of certain things out of it.  Someone said that professional reviewers should be critical.  Then I said, "I dont really have many complaints, and those I do have are minor" and I listed those.

Why are you so defensive about the post?  Relax.  I objectively like the game.    And regarding gaming... I think you're making that conclusion based on facts not in evidence.  How do you know what games I play and why?  I haven't even been talking about mechanics because I don't have any issue with TW2's.  This tangent about politics is about context for gameplay.  Not context in place of gameplay.

Romantiq wrote...

PS. DAO has far more politics involved than DAII.

No, it has far more exposition about politics.

Romantiq wrote...

If you consider finding a Viscount's brat - politics, then I don't know what to tell you.

Did I post that as an example somewhere?

I'm fine with being taken to task for my posts.  Used to it even.  But I'd appreciate it if such criticism took into account, you know, what I actually wrote.  And most of you are, so thanks for that.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 mai 2011 - 03:41 .

[barenas]

I have to agree about the voice acting being hit and miss. I concur with Upsettingshorts about Triss, very monotone and wooden acting. The other sorceress' in the game sounded much better in their acting. And yeah, the bard, Dandelion, was cringe worthy. Those are the two prime examples, the rest of the acting was good enough though.

I do hate the looting though, I really wish they would fix/improve it, especially when searching crates.