13812 réponses à ce sujet

[HoonDing]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Of course that not something we'll see in a game that has only a 14-16 month development timeline and, what appears to be, bare bones resourcing. 

Maybe they should've outsourced to Obsidian then, the champions of short development cycles.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Brockololly wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I like the atmosphere of TW2. Instead of the static NPCs in DA2 these look more alive. Villages look like people are actually living and working in them. You can hear conversations among NPCs that feel more natural and less forced than the ones in DA2. No dogs, cats or birds in DA2 which I remember were there in TW. It's odd that Kirkwall has no dirt. Even the Alienage feels tidy. It looks like everything has been swept and cleaned every time you enter the scene. Villages in TW2 look more realistic. It's those little details that add to the immersion of TW2.

Exactly! The videos of TW2 make the world feel lived in and not just some static movie set like DA2 feels like. Its all the little ambient details that you mentioned that help make the game world more believable.

Correct. The term "believable world" was what I was looking for. In games it's nearly impossible to create a realistic world. But the current technology is able to give you the illusion of reality.

The almost ancient Oblivion had great vegetation. They used software that created random branches and leaves to trees. But they also hired a guy who has been working on placing grass, flowers, plants, bushes, and trees. He worked years on that. He placed everything in the world by hand. And it shows. Remember technology was not as advanced, but they also added butterflies. An extra layer of make believe.

The game used factions with their own behavior to have different kinds of creatures. There was the "prey" faction and deer belonged to it. Another faction, the hunters, killed prey. The prey's behavior was to flee from the hunters. Other factions would leave the prey alive. As a modder you could create a model and textures and some sounds for a creature to be hunted, make it a member of the prey faction, and it behaved like prey. No additional programmig required. Now that's cool.

Skyrim will go one step further. Beth examined how most quests worked and found similarities which they could add to the AI in the world. They used that to solve various immersion breaking problems. Example: Quest givers in Oblivion could not be killed to prevent breaking the story. Most players disliked that. In Skyrim there can be backups. Like if you kill a quest giver then his sister can now give you the same quest instead. But because you killed her brother she would not be happy to see you.

Todd mentioned in an interview that they can do that now without scripting. As long as that woman has the correct voice acting for that situation she just needs to be added to the world and flagged as being the backup quest giver. Of course she will be given her own faction, rumors, and schedule for meals, work, sleep, travel, etc. But that's about it. The technolgy works because they have behavior connected to specialized factions and made more variations of factions and fine tuned the existing ones. None of that requires scripting and can be done in the construction set. That's cool technology. It allows them to be more flexible, to add stuff faster, and hopefully without breaking immersion. It's likely to reduce bugs as well. I like to see that in action. I hope it is not too generic, but it sounds good.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 15 avril 2011 - 10:04 .

[Chaos-fusion]

In regards to bringing life to a world, I have to say that, even though it's a rediculously small thing, I loved the the first game had rats that were the right size. That made me smile for some unknown reason.

Deathwurm wrote...

I think what bothers me is that it does not in any way sell what's actually (probably) going to be in the Game itself. I played The Witcher and there was actually a lot more story and Dice Poker than sex.
Now, I realize that Advertising is not intended to reflect what the Product is...it's intended to make you want the Product.
And I personally, love a little Tush
I just think they are missing the Mark with this.
The "Bullets and Breasts" crowd is going to see this, buy the Game, and then probably give it up after an hour or so of play.
The Hardcore Gamer crowd (male and female) is going to look at this and think the Game has no real substance to it.
And Women who were on the fence about the game are just going to feel that the Female characters are shallow.

Edit to Add:
I think I would have less of a problem with this if Geralt was involved too...

I don't want to derail this topic anymore, since the subject requires a whole topic alone (and the two recent related ones got closed) so I'll simply say, I agree with you, but not entirely followed by a random tangent where I start rambling abou nonsense again.

Also, Geralt? Since it's only marketing, I'd go for Dandelion. A ladies man that looks the part. Or did in his concept at least, he's gone and aquired some dodgy facial hair again. *grumble*

[Tirigon]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

These Maxim shots were pretty awesome, though.

i didn´t like the ones for Morrigan (I think the model was quite ugly) but the ones with Leliana... Wow[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie][smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

First time ever I actually considered looking at one of these magazins[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

I'd care less if they'd done a "Guys of Dragon Age" err, with a different magazine, obviously, to balance it out. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] Especially considering Bioware have a generally more obvious female fanbase than other devs, if forum presence is anything to go by.           

I´d quite support that.

I don´t understand, though, why many women find the portrayal of women in an attractive way objectionable. I think showing the female beauty is a honor rather than an insult.

[Seagloom]

It depends on the context. It is not usually as simple as scantily clad equals objectionable. Deciding what qualifies and what is passable is a case by case decision, and obviously varies depending on the person. There are female character designs I find acceptable I am sure others would not.

The big problem is that often "in an attractive way" translates into highly sexualized. When female characters are treated first as sexual beings and people/heroines/professionals second, it becomes a problem. It is especially bad when the portrayal of men in the same game is senseless mirror opposite to that.

Modifié par Seagloom, 16 avril 2011 - 12:01 .

[Deathwurm]

Chaos-fusion wrote...
Also, Geralt?

Yeah.
Looking back I realize that could have been clearer...
I meant the two of them together...as a "Couple" instead of making Triss look like a "placeable object"

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote...
The big problem is that often "in an attractive way" translates into highly sexualized. When female characters are treated first as sexual beings and people/heroines/professionals second, it becomes a problem. It is especially bad when the portrayal of men in the same game is senseless mirror opposite to that.

Well, for what its worth, the latest Destructoid preview included this bit:

Not that it's a male-oriented or misogynist game in any way, just  because it deals with adult content matter. There's plenty of manflesh  and pretty boys to admire as well, and the female characters are strong, confident, and don't take any **** or act like girly caricatures. Triss Merigold in particular already feels like she's going to be a fan  favorite of gamers regardless of their gender; which is how it should  be.

How all of this ends up in the game, is of course anyone's guess at this point.

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 avril 2011 - 12:33 .

[Chaos-fusion]

Deathwurm wrote...

Yeah.
Looking back I realize that could have been clearer...
I meant the two of them together...as a "Couple" instead of making Triss look like a "placeable object"

Ah, sorry for that. Reading comprehension failure.

[Chromie]

So yea other then the bewbs textures in the game. What else are you excited for?

The Spring Conference really shows off how amazing the combat system looks. The animations look so fluid and AI actually though! That field is huge! Why can't Dragon Age have huge open areas sometimes

Modifié par Ringo12, 16 avril 2011 - 01:59 .

[Seagloom]

Not that I am a huge Dragon Age fan or anything. . . (I have yet to start playing DA2), but I really wish the whole Witcher 2 > DA talk would stop. Honestly, they are not very similar games at all. Last I checked the Witcher was not a party based, tactical experience. I am sure there are tactical decisions one can make. Using a doorway or narrow corridor as a bottleneck, combining special attacks and magic effects for maximum carnage, and so on. . .

Despite that, single character tactics are rarely as complex, or require as much careful management as party based tactics. As repetitive as I found DAO combat was at times, it was only brainless when playing an overpowered character. Everything I read about DA2 suggests little has changed in that regard. (Although I hear the waves are horrible too.) I will also be *shocked* if this game is as free roaming as the Elder Scrolls or Fallout. I cannot remember an RPG in recent years that offered freedom and/or expansive environments. Even most older RPGs such as Baldur's Gate II lacked that. Baldur's Gate? Yes. Fallout 1&2? Yep. Anything in the last five years that is not a sandbox game? Nope.

/Tangent

@Brock

I read that preview earlier. Color me skeptical. I rarely take mainstream sites seriously on this sort of thing. The opinion of someone from the Border House, for example, carries more weight than a Destructoid previewer. Granted, I hope he is correct.

Modifié par Seagloom, 16 avril 2011 - 09:04 .

[Tirigon]

Seagloom wrote...

It is especially bad when the portrayal of men in the same game is senseless mirror opposite to that.

It is - but Geralt and Dandelion and, to some degree, even Zoltan were portrayed as more sl*tty than any women in TW1

[Damariel]

Seagloom wrote...

Not that I am a huge Dragon Age fan or anything. . . (I have yet to start playing DA2), but I really wish the whole Witcher 2 > DA talk would stop. Honestly, they are not very similar games at all. Last I checked the Witcher was not a party based, tactical experience. I am sure there are tactical decisions one can make. Using a doorway or narrow corridor as a bottleneck, combining special attacks and magic effects for maximum carnage, and so on. . .

Despite that, single character tactics are rarely as complex, or require as much careful management as party based tactics. As repetitive as I found DAO combat was at times, it was only brainless when playing an overpowered character. Everything I read about DA2 suggests little has changed in that regard. (Although I hear the waves are horrible too.) I will also be *shocked* if this game is as free roaming as the Elder Scrolls or Fallout. I cannot remember an RPG in recent years that offered freedom and/or expansive environments. Even most older RPGs such as Baldur's Gate II lacked that. Baldur's Gate? Yes. Fallout 1&2? Yep. Anything in the last five years that is not a sandbox game? Nope.

/Tangent

@Brock

I read that preview earlier. Color me skeptical. I rarely take mainstream sites seriously on this sort of thing. The opinion of someone from the Border House, for example, carries more weight than a Destructoid previewer. Granted, I hope he is correct.

Ok so stop write about that... nothing else can start this stupid vs contest better than request of end. It easier don't mention about that and simply wait for end... and fanboys?(not all of course but still many of them) they allways will be compare their favorite games to others and fight to show how their game is "FU**ING BEST GAME EVERRRR!!!!" , and how much they are stupid.

W2 will not be sandbox game... I thought it's obvious. For sanbox RPG fans there is Skyrim this year.




 

[Chromie]

Seagloom wrote...

Not that I am a huge Dragon Age fan or anything. . . (I have yet to start playing DA2), but I really wish the whole Witcher 2 > DA talk would stop. Honestly, they are not very similar games at all. Last I checked the Witcher was not a party based, tactical experience. I am sure there are tactical decisions one can make. Using a doorway or narrow corridor as a bottleneck, combining special attacks and magic effects for maximum carnage, and so on. . .

Despite that, single character tactics are rarely as complex, or require as much careful management as party based tactics. As repetitive as I found DAO combat was at times, it was only brainless when playing an overpowered character. Everything I read about DA2 suggests little has changed in that regard. (Although I hear the waves are horrible too.) I will also be *shocked* if this game is as free roaming as the Elder Scrolls or Fallout. I cannot remember an RPG in recent years that offered freedom and/or expansive environments. Even most older RPGs such as Baldur's Gate II lacked that. Baldur's Gate? Yes. Fallout 1&2? Yep. Anything in the last five years that is not a sandbox game? Nope.

/Tangent

@Brock

I read that preview earlier. Color me skeptical. I rarely take mainstream sites seriously on this sort of thing. The opinion of someone from the Border House, for example, carries more weight than a Destructoid previewer. Granted, I hope he is correct.

You went out of your way to post this on a Witcher 2 thread? Why?

They are comparable. That's why people keep doing it. Granted combat is different that doesn't mean it's easier.
Take a look at the combat hereCombat

Stunning constant sign switching, traps it's a big improvement from the first. Able to use the environment to your advantage look at the gif below knocking a person the edge of a mountain.

But the games are comparable in terms of story, atmosphere, environements and characters.

And this is where Witcher did such a good job. Npc's in the witcher reacted to the weather, they talked about politics, nonhumans talked about racism in the game, stuff that added to the world. The game takes place in a middle age type setting and is much more realisitic then Dragon Age. The poor live in ghettos and have fires outside to keep warm bundle up when it rains under a roof.

The environments in Witcher 2 are going to be bigger and more gorgeous then Dragon Age...really take a look at the video link. One of the developers in the video even says the area we are seeing will be different depening on our imported save and decisions before hand. Dragon Age 2 had non of that and it Kirkwall didn't react at all to our decisions even though we were promised that.

The story of the Witcher 1 is way more mature then Dragon Age Origins. Origins was supposed to be Dark Fantasy? It didn't feel dark. Decisions were black and white, choices in Witcher 1 were almost always shades of grey and forced you to pick the less of two evils. Also Witcher 1 your consequences never appeared right after you made your choice it would appear maybe an hour or maybe 3 into the story so you wouldn't make a choice if you dislike it an reload. It added to the replay value. The story also isn't save the world. It starts off simple, find out why your home was attacked, who attacked and what their purpose was with the mutagens (alchemical things used to create witchers) and then the story evolves into something involving a resistance group, a fanatical religous group and the politics of a country. Dragon Age well it's the same save the world crap.

Now don't get me wrong I love Dragon Age. Great games. DA2 may not be the best it could have been but I do find it enjoyable. The combat is great and I like that the story isn't tied to saving the world yet again maybe it wasn't excuted properly but it's nice to see Bioware move away from being a hero out to save everyone.

Also the enviroments in Witcher 2 look amazing.

And just because I can here are some great gifs.

Modifié par Ringo12, 16 avril 2011 - 12:02 .

[TW2GERALT]

DAT GRAPHIC
DAT ATMOSPHERE
DAT MUSIC
DAT COMBAT



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=u4GaFnVIYds

[Chromie]

Wow just wow Flotsam looks amazing. I can see why Destructoid says the village feels more alive then the entire city of Kirkwall.

Modifié par Ringo12, 16 avril 2011 - 02:15 .

[Seagloom]

Ringo12 wrote...

You went out of your way to post this on a Witcher 2 thread? Why?

You make it sound like this is unusual when a plethora of DA2 threads get Witcher comparisons dropped into them. One of the reasons I do not even look at those forums is due to the constant, often asinine bickering. So when you took an opportunity to take a shot at DA2 my first thought was "here we go again".

I do not disagree that DAO was not dark fantasy. I am not a proponent of the "third option" that appeared so frequently in that game, nor the apparent railroading in the sequel. The Witcher superiorily handles those themes--no question.

Returning to your original query: your post is what instigated my response. You were lamenting over one of DA2's flaws and then threw in the snarky/angry smiley at the end.

Ringo 12 wrote...
That field is huge! Why can't Dragon Age have huge open areas sometimes ../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

Is it *that* surprising someone would read your words and react to them unfavorably? "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't cast stones" and all that.

Graphics were not an issue I raised, but yes, they are an improvement. That much is obvious. Environments are harder to tell without playing. If the Witcher 2 is broken up into a bunch of disconnected zones, then it has larger hubs. However, they would still be hubs. If the Witcher 2 is one massive world with areas linked together seamlessly, then I will agree and eat my figurative hat in apology. If not, there is nothing to seperate it from every non-sandbox RPG in the last decade. Being able to jump around and walk over a patch of land or water is nice, but not that important to exploration. It only has bearing on combat if those mechanics are specifically designed to take advantage of it.

The Witcher 2 is a single character action RPG whilst DA2 is a party focused realtime with pause affair. Comparing graphics, plot, character development and such is certainly possible, but the games' core combat is dissimilar enough to feel forced. The only way it could be farther off is I were comparing DA2 combat to something like Deus EX: Human Revolution.

I will take my leave now. Since I do not plan on buying this game for unrelated reasons, and already wrote my piece on the Triss promo, there is little else worth stating. I have no desire to perpetuate yet another DA/Witcher debate. Have at it.

[Druss99]

Ringo12 wrote...

Wow just wow Flotsam looks amazing. I can see why Destructoid says the village feels more alive then the entire city of Kirkwall.

That right there is atmosphere. Its like Shenmue x Fable on steroids = Witcher 2's atmosphere.

[slimgrin]

I want one of these crab things as a pet. Cute little buggers.




@ Seagloom. I've said my piece about DA2, most of it up untill release. When I played the demo, I realized it wasn't the game for me and with few exceptions, I've shut up about it. So you're right. The devs get it. A lot of gamers are upset with Bioware over DA2. No use harping anymore. But what is your reason for not trying this game? Especially if it turns out to be good?

Modifié par slimgrin, 16 avril 2011 - 03:12 .

[naughty99]

slimgrin wrote...

I want one of these crab things as a pet. Cute little buggers.

GERALT: Dandelion, what's going on with you?

DANDELION: I saw some crab things by the water recently. I steered clear of them.

GERALT: Disgusting creatures. I hope to never see another.

DANDELION: Take care

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote...
The Witcher 2 is a single character action RPG whilst DA2 is a party focused realtime with pause affair. Comparing graphics, plot, character development and such is certainly possible, but the games' core combat is dissimilar enough to feel forced. The only way it could be farther off is I were comparing DA2 combat to something like Deus EX: Human Revolution.

I just think the inevitable comparisons to TW2 and specifically DA2 (not DAO) in part stem from DA2 willfully veering into the more action RPG direction- sure the party is still there, but in my experience at least, combat and encounters are such that you generally don't need to get down and dirty with micromanaging party members unless you're on Nightmare or maybe only certain encounters on Hard. Thats one of the problems with DA2 IMO, it doesn't have a strong identity as a party based pause and play affair, when you can rather easily get through the game without pausing and without having to utilize your party members- at that point, you may as well be playing an unabashedly action RPG like TW2.

And then of course the improvements that TW2 seems to be making in terms of graphics, setting, being a PC game- basically, its seems CD Projekt is more in tune with what their audience wants from a Witcher game as opposed to DA2's marketing and appeals which turned off a good number of people to DA, I think. Beyond that, TW2 just seems like a more polished product- we won't know until launch, but given their track record with not abandoning TW1 after its buggy launch as opposed to the relative lack of support with some of BioWare's recent titles, thats something else to take note of.

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 avril 2011 - 03:51 .

[slimgrin]

naughty99 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I want one of these crab things as a pet. Cute little buggers.

GERALT: Dandelion, what's going on with you?

DANDELION: I saw some crab things by the water recently. I steered clear of them.

GERALT: Disgusting creatures. I hope to never see another.

DANDELION: Take care

Lol. Nice one. After watching the castle seige vid, I already know what the signature saying for TW2 will be:

Kill the WITCHAAA!!

Kill the WITCHAAA!

Kill the WITCHAAA!

Modifié par slimgrin, 16 avril 2011 - 03:55 .

[Chromie]

Druss99 wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Wow just wow Flotsam looks amazing. I can see why Destructoid says the village feels more alive then the entire city of Kirkwall.

That right there is atmosphere. Its like Shenmue x Fable on steroids = Witcher 2's atmosphere.

Heh I watched it again and I heard an npc say "Will I see you at the hanging?"  The npc banter is funny.

[slimgrin]

The thing that strikes me is how good the English VO's are now. So much better than the first one. I might actually end up playing in English as well as Polish.

[Seagloom]

slimgrin wrote...

But what is your reason for not trying this game? Especially if it turns out to be good?

I avoid RPGs without an option to play as a female character. Otherwise I would have probably preordered TW2 at GOG by now. A friend bought me an import copy of the original before the censorship in US versions was lifted with the Enhanced Edition. It still sits in shrinkwrap to this day. I did download the EE patches and stuff on the off chance I ever play, but I doubt it will happen. Bringing myself to play a game with a male protagonist is usually only possible if I already finished it years before I felt this way. Planescape: Torment, for example. Awhile ago I bought Alpha Protocol when it hit $5 at NewEgg; and despite enjoying what I played of it, could not motivate myself to finish. The disconnect I feel with these games is usually too harsh for me to meaningfully bond with the protagonist. That ends up hurting my entire experience.

Too bad, because TW2 does look like it will be worth playing. Thems the breaks.

Modifié par Seagloom, 16 avril 2011 - 04:22 .

[naughty99]

Seagloom wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

But what is your reason for not trying this game? Especially if it turns out to be good?

I avoid RPGs without an option to play as a female character. Otherwise I would have probably preordered TW2 at GOG by now. A friend bought me an import copy of the original before the censorship in US copies was lifted with the Enhanced Edition. It still sits in shrinkwrap to this day. I did download the EE patches and stuff on the off chance I ever play, but I doubt it will happen. I can usually bring myself to play a game with a male protagonist is if it is one I already finished years before I felt this way; such as Planescape: Torment. I only bought Alpha Protocol when it hit $5 at NewEgg, and I enjoyed what I played of it, but the disconnect with these games is usually so harsh that I find it difficult to connect with the character.

Too bad, because TW2 does look like it will be worth playing. Thems the breaks.

I usually play a female character as well, but after playing the first game for a few hours, Geralt and the story really grew on me. By the time I finished the game, I was a huge fan.