13812 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
The difference is the tutorial was adequate if you have common sense and the ability to read what came with the game in the box or even if download comes with manual which you can download too. My criticism is people crying over their own flaws of not reading the manual and too lazy to google when get stuck. No tutorial will ever please everyone because people (like) you will always moan and cry over it could of been longer, better or more in depth when in reality it's their own fault for not looking in the manuals in first place.

Other points of laziness in Yathze's review, but this time  "in-game" ironically enough.

He complains that there is no way for us to know what kind of fight we are going to have, so we can't prepare potions adequately. I am 90% sure he just went off the forest immediately without thinking.

First off, there is a reason potions last 10 minutes, if you know you're going somewhere dangerous (and people in Flotsam all tell you the forest is dangerous) and are not that good at the game, then prepare before heading out to the forest. How do you know what kind of creatures you'll fight? Read the notice boards, it's nekkers and endrega. What do you do next? Buy books to learn about them (they tell you their weaknesses) before heading off blindly. Then prepare adequately and go fight them.

Wow, so hard eh?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 juin 2011 - 02:27 .

[Dragoonlordz]

They could have used earlier on in the prologue to both give the skinny on the world and history ( so people new to the game could learn it) plus teach the controls a bit better for those with an aversion to manuals ) I actually *like* manuals, but with digital downloads, pdf manuals are a bit of a drag....admittedly... 

Problem is why should they put that stuff not only in the manual and even the back of the retail box if buy it that way, but also in game too thats not just redundancy thats taking it too far for people who cant be bothered to look at either of the other three souces of that information (manual, retail box, internet).

My thing is that after the FIRST time he tried the game, you would think he would have read the manual before coming back and having a freak out yelling " omg I still don't know intuitively what to do, you know, like the last time I didn't know intuitively what to do!!" 

This is the major problem people moan about games being too hard when they don't even put the effort in to do some very light reading of a mere few paragraphs. The games are being dumbed down (simplified) because it's audience (the people that play them) are getting dumber and less patient.

I repeat: It didn't sound like Yahtzee had much to complain about. The game left him cold, from what I can tell. So he picked easy topics to **** about. T'was a bit of a lazy review, I thought.

His 'joke like' reviews are just that, over the top blowing things out of proportion for laughs and it's scary how gullible people are who jump on them as gospel. His reviews are humorous exaggerations and they are entertaining because of that.

There is a really easy solution to the tutorial problems: Pause the screen for 3 seconds, and in fluorescent font, tell the player, "If you're ever lost as to what to do, just press J to go to your journal. Everything is explained there." (Although that didn't explain mutagens very well ...)

I have no problem doing that for those who are too lazy to read the manual 'Mutagens' again in the manual very good explantion and easy to understand small section part 4.4 page 25 the sooner people get off their lazy arses and read the better for humanity.

[HoonDing]

Even if you don't know what to face, there's general use potions like Swallow, Petri's Philter or Rook/Swirl you know are always going to be useful.

Modifié par virumor, 09 juin 2011 - 02:29 .

[YohkoOhno]

My perspective on survivability of human race solidifies bit by bit - we wont survive another millenium.

The real survivalists aren't wasting their time playing video games.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

They could have used earlier on in the prologue to both give the skinny on the world and history ( so people new to the game could learn it) plus teach the controls a bit better for those with an aversion to manuals ) I actually *like* manuals, but with digital downloads, pdf manuals are a bit of a drag....admittedly... 

Problem is why should they put that stuff not only in the manual and even the back of the retail box if buy it that way, but also in game too thats not just redundancy thats taking it too far for people who cant be bothered to look at either of the other three souces of that information (manual, retail box, internet).

I'd agree that TW2 could have used a better introduction to the world and the lore, for new players.

That said, DA2 had a horrible introduction which I thought was much worse. ME2 didn't have that great an intro to the universe for new players either.

So it is difficult for sequels to do that.

But I do think TW2 brings you up to speed in regards to the more important issues (addressed in TW1) by Act 1.

[Aldandil]

Saying that people are lazy for not wanting to read the manual is a pretty weak defense. Considering the easiness of putting in a journal entry stating that mutagens are applied in the character screen, having that info being available only in a pdf file that I need to access from my game folder is an oversight worthy of criticism. It's not hard to go and look for it, but I prefer playing the game to reading the manual. If I prefer to be able to access information in-game, then I'm fully in my right to point out that this game didn't take my preferences into account. This has nothing to do with laziness.

Finally: Anyone who ever spelled BioWare without a capital W has lost all credibility, and might as well stop posting.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Aldandil wrote...

Saying that people are lazy for not wanting to read the manual is a pretty weak defense. Considering the easiness of putting in a journal entry stating that mutagens are applied in the character screen, having that info being available only in a pdf file that I need to access from my game folder is an oversight worthy of criticism. It's not hard to go and look for it, but I prefer playing the game to reading the manual. If I prefer to be able to access information in-game, then I'm fully in my right to point out that this game didn't take my preferences into account. This has nothing to do with laziness.

Other than mutagens (which I found was not explained that well either, though I didn't complain about it), what other thing did you have to pause the game 5 minutes for? 

[Dragoonlordz]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Other points of laziness in Yathze's review, but this time  "in-game" ironically enough.

He complains that there is no way for us to know what kind of fight we are going to have, so we can't prepare potions adequately. I am 90% sure he just went off the forest immediately without thinking.

First off, there is a reason potions last 10 minutes, if you know you're going somewhere dangerous (and people in Flotsam all tell you the forest is dangerous) and are not that good at the game, then prepare before heading out to the forest. How do you know what kind of creatures you'll fight? Read the notice boards, it's nekkers and endrega. What do you do next? Buy books to learn about them (they tell you their weaknesses) before heading off blindly. Then prepare adequately and go fight them.

Wow, so hard eh?

I saw someone who takes same train of thought and lack of ability in another youtube video, he kept running into the same battle doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result and was so hissy I swear his head was going to explode. He kept on saying same thing about being "game is too hard", "controls too tricky", "it's impossible" blahblahblah crying for his mommy probably would have been the next step he took. Someone should of pointed out the definition of insanity "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

That person reminds me of him.

TW2 has a very good autosave feature and never had to go back far when die in game but when an idiot loads that autosave and immediately runs in does same thing and cries over it blaming the game then it's his fault imho and maybe he should of taken a moment to think why he died and if can try something else. Like almost everyone who bashes the game for being too hard or steep a learning curve they always blame the game for their own flaws aka the lack of patience or ability to read and that annoys me.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 juin 2011 - 02:44 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Aldandil wrote...

Saying that people are lazy for not wanting to read the manual is a pretty weak defense. Considering the easiness of putting in a journal entry stating that mutagens are applied in the character screen, having that info being available only in a pdf file that I need to access from my game folder is an oversight worthy of criticism. It's not hard to go and look for it, but I prefer playing the game to reading the manual. If I prefer to be able to access information in-game, then I'm fully in my right to point out that this game didn't take my preferences into account. This has nothing to do with laziness.

Finally: Anyone who ever spelled BioWare without a capital W has lost all credibility, and might as well stop posting.

You have proved my point just like Yoho did, the information is there but you can't be bothered to go look for it aka if you have a PDF version of manual you are too lazy to open up a folder and read and if you have retail version the booklet is in the same box as the case all have to do is read while installing instead you want to read it in game because of that laziness. The section in manual for mutagens is seven lines long and also covers specific types with single line of text each and both does good enough job of it, if you cant be bothered to read something like that then your flaw not the games imho.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 juin 2011 - 02:50 .

[Nerevar-as]

Maybe they should put "does not autoscale" in the game features. I´d rather have a sense of progression and getting more powerful than all fights feeling the same regardless of the level.

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 09 juin 2011 - 02:48 .

[Bejos_]

This is quickly devolving ...

Remember, people: If you're an arse online, you're an arse offline.

How sad for you.

[DragonRageGT]

Aldandil wrote...

Saying that people are lazy for not wanting to read the manual is a pretty weak defense. Considering the easiness of putting in a journal entry stating that mutagens are applied in the character screen, having that info being available only in a pdf file that I need to access from my game folder is an oversight worthy of criticism. It's not hard to go and look for it, but I prefer playing the game to reading the manual. If I prefer to be able to access information in-game, then I'm fully in my right to point out that this game didn't take my preferences into account. This has nothing to do with laziness.

Finally: Anyone who ever spelled BioWare without a capital W has lost all credibility, and might as well stop posting.

Duh... it IS in the Mutagen entry in the Journal... Tutorial section...

Manual? Who needs it! The whole fraking manual is well described in the in game JOURNAL!

Modifié par RageGT, 09 juin 2011 - 03:01 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Bejos_ wrote...

This is quickly devolving ...

Remember, people: If you're an arse online, you're an arse offline.

How sad for you.

I have little patience for those who lack enough common sense to read something freely provided with a game whether PDF or paper but especially if they buy the retail version ~which they could read it while it was installing.

If you want to try to belittle a title at least pick a flaw that is not in reality a flaw with the person who is playing it rather than game itself.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 juin 2011 - 03:05 .

[YohkoOhno]

I have little patience for those who lack enough common sense to read something freely provided with a game whether PDF or paper but especially if they buy the retail version ~which they could read it while it was installing.

The problem is, regardless of your feelings, you can express your opinions without being rude to other people or attacking their character. This is something a lot of people need to learn.  It's also the very behavior Yahtzee mocked or targeted in that video.

The Witcher 2 is not a real person.  Better to treat your fellow posters with respect than get upset about criticisms about a game.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 09 juin 2011 - 03:06 .

[DragonRageGT]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Other points of laziness in Yathze's review, but this time  "in-game" ironically enough.

He complains that there is no way for us to know what kind of fight we are going to have, so we can't prepare potions adequately. I am 90% sure he just went off the forest immediately without thinking.

First off, there is a reason potions last 10 minutes, if you know you're going somewhere dangerous (and people in Flotsam all tell you the forest is dangerous) and are not that good at the game, then prepare before heading out to the forest. How do you know what kind of creatures you'll fight? Read the notice boards, it's nekkers and endrega. What do you do next? Buy books to learn about them (they tell you their weaknesses) before heading off blindly. Then prepare adequately and go fight them.

Wow, so hard eh?

And knowledge about monsters can be acquired through combat alone. Starts at 0/3 and advances the more you kill that same species. But guess he's too lazy to check the bestiary at Char Screen as instructed in the Journal's tutorial section. I save my orens and instead of buying books, I just kill those things until it's 3/3 and the some more. Only books worth buying are for Wraiths (too dangerous to risk w/out knowledge on Insane) and stuff that is not abundant enough to go 3/3 on Act 1 like Rotfiends.

[MDT1]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

Saying that people are lazy for not wanting to read the manual is a pretty weak defense. Considering the easiness of putting in a journal entry stating that mutagens are applied in the character screen, having that info being available only in a pdf file that I need to access from my game folder is an oversight worthy of criticism. It's not hard to go and look for it, but I prefer playing the game to reading the manual. If I prefer to be able to access information in-game, then I'm fully in my right to point out that this game didn't take my preferences into account. This has nothing to do with laziness.

Finally: Anyone who ever spelled BioWare without a capital W has lost all credibility, and might as well stop posting.

You have proved my point just like Yoho did, the information is there but you can't be bothered to go look for it aka if you have a PDF version of manual you are too lazy to open up a folder and read and if you have retail version the booklet is in the same box as the case all have to do is read while installing instead you want to read it in game because of that laziness. The section in manual for mutagens is seven lines long and also covers specific types with single line of text each and both does good enough job of it, if you cant be bothered to read something like that then your flaw not the games imho.

Before I start arguing: I read the manual and I found mutagens well described there.

But still I would prefer an Ingame solution, like an ? in the right corner I can klick on, my cursor turns into an ? and I can klick on an item/spell/whatever I want info about and it open the according manual pages.
Because I agree once you started the game its better if you don't have to switch to desktop to read the manual and reading it while installation before you actually ever played the game doesn't help that much imho.

No complete and easy accessable ingame documentation is lazy from the developer.

Modifié par MDT1, 09 juin 2011 - 03:08 .

[DragonRageGT]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

This is quickly devolving ...

Remember, people: If you're an arse online, you're an arse offline.

How sad for you.

I have little patience for those who lack enough common sense to read something freely provided with a game whether PDF or paper but especially if they buy the retail version ~which they could read it while it was installing.

If you want to try to belittle a title at least pick a flaw that is not in reality a flaw with the person who is playing it rather than game itself.

Stop saying that! It is worse than that. There is no need to waste time reading .pdf's. All info is in the Journal, Tutorial section. Perhaps people don't known that the Scroll bar or the down Arrow key navigates through it?

[Dragoonlordz]

YohkoOhno wrote...

I have little patience for those who lack enough common sense to read something freely provided with a game whether PDF or paper but especially if they buy the retail version ~which they could read it while it was installing.

The problem is, regardless of your feelings, you can express your opinions without being rude to other people or attacking their character. This is something a lot of people need to learn.  It's also the very behavior Yahtzee mocked or targeted in that video.

His video is just that mocking and being rude and here you are praising it and promoting it so don't go there and not expect to have a few raised eyebrows in your direction because that is exactly what you have done in your approach. This makes you in fact worse than those you mock so don't take the moral highground when your promoting something that mocks and is rude about others.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 juin 2011 - 03:11 .

[DragonRageGT]

MDT1 wrote...


Before I start arguing: I read the manual and I found mutagens well described there.

But still I would prefer an Ingame solution, like an ? in the right corner I can klick on, my cursor turns into an ? and I can klick on an item/spell/whatever I want info about and it open the according manual pages.
Because I agree once you started the game its better if you don't have to switch to desktop to read the manual and reading it while installation before you actually ever played the game doesn't help that much imho.

No complete and easy accessable ingame documentation is lazy from the developer.

What part of IN GAME JOURNAL is not spelled right?

Press J for awesome!

Modifié par RageGT, 09 juin 2011 - 03:12 .

[Costin_Razvan]

What about the in-game tutorial? Sorry, complaining about alt-tabbing to get the info is one thing.

Complaining that you can't be bothered reading a journal page is another thing.

Why do games need tutorial levels? So that brand new players can learn the combat? Sorry, there is a game manual for that, and ****ing combat being **** when you could not be bothered to read it makes your argument invalid.

Do you know an old game ( with a sequel releasing tommorow? ) yeah...Duke Nukem, such a massive game it was back in the day, but for all it's awesomeness IT LACKED a Tutorial. There was no handholding or objective marking, there was no map.

You were expected to find the ending yourself, and there more often then puzzles in it to reach said end. Exploration was a key feature of the game.

Granted Duke Nukem had far more simplistic combat then the Witcher 2, but for crying out loud Bioware tells us in the tutorial level for ME2 how to BLOODY RELOAD a weapon. Thanks Bioware, but I am not a moron, and for those trying to defend this kind of design, then grasp one simple point: A game is not an interactive story or novel it's a GAME, a challenge of some sorts. What challenge is there when you spoonfeed on what the hell to do every steep of the way?

I greatly enjoyed the combat the witcher 2, because it was harsh really rash but at the same time a person who would give a crap to think, read the various monsters books, explore on his own and not go lumbering into combat like an idiot ( Thanks Angryjoe for that part at least ) and win.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 09 juin 2011 - 03:14 .

[YohkoOhno]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
His video is just that mocking and being rude and here you are praising it and promoting it so don't go there and not expect to have a few raised eyebrows in your direction because that is exactly what you have done in your approach. This makes you in fact worse than those you mock so don't take the moral highground when your promoting something that mocks and is rude about others.

Yes, but he is mocking people in the abstract, not a specific individual.  He is mocking behavior of an anonymous group.  If he decided to respond directly to you as Dragoonlordz and mocked you, I'd be the first to criticize him.  

[nbamaniac]

So, Saint's Row 2 > The Witcher 2 now?... meh, that's WAAAYY out of league..

I now can't seem to grasp his idea of 'fun'.. -.-

Modifié par nbamaniac, 09 juin 2011 - 03:30 .

[Dragoonlordz]

RageGT wrote...

MDT1 wrote...


Before I start arguing: I read the manual and I found mutagens well described there.

But still I would prefer an Ingame solution, like an ? in the right corner I can klick on, my cursor turns into an ? and I can klick on an item/spell/whatever I want info about and it open the according manual pages.
Because I agree once you started the game its better if you don't have to switch to desktop to read the manual and reading it while installation before you actually ever played the game doesn't help that much imho.

No complete and easy accessable ingame documentation is lazy from the developer.

What part of IN GAME JOURNAL is not spelled right?

Press J for awesome!

To me there is no flaw to begin with and people are jumping on the bandwagon because of one review that was based on being over the top from someone who never bothered to read anything followed by even when died still did not try to figure out why he was dying which was soley based off his own incompetence. Whether they read the manual or google or even the journal they are crying over something that is not a real issue.

It's just the trendy hip thing to be on right now the whole "make it so a baby can play or grandma as though its their first ever 'picking up a controller or mouse and keyboard', first ever game approach". They need a reality check. Not everything in life is handed to people on a silver plate and some people like a challenge not their hands held like a child 24/7. Everything they are moaning about was provided whether in the retail box, the digital download or even in game, this to me is a flaw with them and not the game which they are trying to force feed others.

[MDT1]

RageGT wrote...

MDT1 wrote...


Before I start arguing: I read the manual and I found mutagens well described there.

But still I would prefer an Ingame solution, like an ? in the right corner I can klick on, my cursor turns into an ? and I can klick on an item/spell/whatever I want info about and it open the according manual pages.
Because I agree once you started the game its better if you don't have to switch to desktop to read the manual and reading it while installation before you actually ever played the game doesn't help that much imho.

No complete and easy accessable ingame documentation is lazy from the developer.

What part of IN GAME JOURNAL is not spelled right?

Press J for awesome!

As I said first I had no problem with finding that information.
When I press J nothing awesome happenes, I just find some lists of themes that are not even sorted by alphabet nor do have a search function. And I also can't access the entry from the item in my inventory I have a question about.
This is just lazy.
If you want nowdays to minimize bad reviews you have to implement such things. If you don't implement them, don't complain.
Oh yeah, CDProject doesn't complain, only you do ...

It's like giving your dog the food for the whole week together on monday and complaining on friday if he already ate everything.

Modifié par MDT1, 09 juin 2011 - 03:29 .

[Dragoonlordz]

YohkoOhno wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
His video is just that mocking and being rude and here you are praising it and promoting it so don't go there and not expect to have a few raised eyebrows in your direction because that is exactly what you have done in your approach. This makes you in fact worse than those you mock so don't take the moral highground when your promoting something that mocks and is rude about others.

Yes, but he is mocking people in the abstract, not a specific individual.  He is mocking behavior of an anonymous group.  If he decided to respond directly to you as Dragoonlordz and mocked you, I'd be the first to criticize him.  

Doesn't matter whether it's an individual or a group or even if it's abstract your still promoting the disdain and belittling of other people.

Your promoting of his negative and somewhat derogatory views of others by promoting his review is enough of a reason to not go very easy on you when talk to you. But more to the fact your arguing about something that is not a flaw with the game imho because everything you need and want is available whether in game or comes with the product paper or PDF format.

EVEN if something was not contained within that such as IF it did not go deep enough into something for you then you have a wealth of information at your fingertips which you can obtain to go as deep as your hearts content, it's called the internet. You can't please everyone and people should stop trying to because it has a vast detrimental effect on the quality of gaming and games in general because it's going too far to please everyone and resulting in pleasing even less.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 juin 2011 - 03:36 .