13812 réponses à ce sujet

[YohkoOhno]

For me, it's not so much what Roche or Ioverth's own needs are (in terms of how I like the story), but where Geralt's friends seem to belong. In both of my playthru's, Geralt's friends seem to be more at home when you follow the Ioverth path. Even if Geralt is "neutral", I felt it was a better mix and eventually was a bit more optimistic than the Roche path. Just seeing how depressed Zoltan was when I followed the Roche path and the end results of what happened to Roche's men, I felt Geralt did more good for the realm by alinging himself with Saskia.

I feel they constructed the story very well though and based on what I've read, I can see Geralt realistically choosing either path.

So third week VGC sales numbers appear to be online.

Sadly, this still seems to be more of a European hit than an American one. It has yet to make 100,000 sales in North America. It's funny, while the European audience appears to have rejected DA2 quickly, TW2 appears to be rejected by the American audience.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 11 juin 2011 - 01:31 .

[orbit991]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

So third week VGC sales numbers appear to be online.

Currently at in total (not including digital sales)

Witcher 2 PC = 342,013
(For perspective as a like for like example) Dragon Age 2 PC = 224,079

As a general rule for digital sales I tend to double the figure but no way of actually knowing for sure, only know that when sold 212k retail copies they made around 200k digital on top. So I wouldn't be surprised if they are around 700k in total right now personally.

Cant do PC sales by those charts, usually they dont even have the PC numbers. CD Projekt said they sold over 400k in the first week alone, and expect to sell 30% more copies then the first Witcher did. Considering that they are conservative with their estimates(such as getting double the preorders they estimated) I wouldnt be surprised if they do better.

Modifié par orbit991, 11 juin 2011 - 01:37 .

[Chromie]

YohkoOhno wrote...
Sadly, this still seems to be more of a European hit than an American one. It has yet to make 100,000 sales in North America. It's funny, while the European audience appears to have rejected DA2 quickly, TW2 appears to be rejected by the American audience.

I don't get the joke...Witcher 1 was the same way. So are other European games like Gothic and Risen. 

[slimgrin]

Why can't we just post character builds for now and not story spoilers...wtf.

[YohkoOhno]

It's not a joke. I'm just guessing the European audience will be what makes the game turn a profit.

[slimgrin]

YohkoOhno wrote...

It's not a joke. I'm just guessing the European audience will be what makes the game turn a profit.

So what ? Who cares about the American audience?

[YohkoOhno]

I could turn that statement around and say who cares about the European audience. But I won't. ;-)

[Bejos_]

Is there a reason American audiences are so reluctant to like (pretty much) anything that isn't American? Is it, as Yahtzee likes to say, a stubbornness based on "homegrown wisdom" that sees anything not American as inherently bad?

The Gothic series (bar 3 and 4, for obvious reasons) easily fits into the top 10 of all game series ...

I think Japan's nexus-ness in regards to video games gives them a bit of a pass-- they're popular in America because they originated the idea of electronics as interactive entertainment and have been around for the past 30 or so years-- but Europe ...

So, what is it, you Americans? Why don't you like Europeans?

[slimgrin]

YohkoOhno wrote...

I could turn that statement around and say who cares about the European audience. But I won't. ;-)

No you won't because you know America invented bad taste. If Europe has any of it, it's through following our example. 

[YohkoOhno]

I agree Bejos. I think because we've been the dominant culture for so long it leads to a level of arrogance on the part of many Americans. We don't learn the languages of other cultures but everybody else learns English.

Europe is probably going to be the savior of the traditional RPG, because Japan has their own take and North America seems to be having them evolve into a hybrid of action and more real time instead of turn based gaming.

[Nigawatts]

So do we ever find out who Mutated the Kayren?

[Bejos_]

Nigawatts wrote...

So do we ever find out who Mutated the Kayren?

You do. The sorcerer that was on the ruined ship, where the Kayran's nest is, did mojo to call forth monsters during a mutiny that occurred. The ship sank, but the magic held, which led to the Kayran becoming what it was in the game.

Modifié par Bejos_, 11 juin 2011 - 03:00 .

[Anathemic]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Iorveth's a radical who hates humans, talk all you will about a solution. It's not going to emerge until he ( and all the Scoia'Tel like him ) die. That is a reality.

I want him dead because he and the Scoia'Tel as a whole made the whole situation much worse then it already was. ( I suggest you read the second witcher novel where Zigrin pretty much says the exact same thing as I am right now ).

Killing someone can be part of a solution, but genocide is never a solution. The humans, for all their racism do not want all elves dead. They want all Scoia'Tel dead ( and I repeat myself, many elves are not Scoia'Tel ) and rightly so, Yes they treat nonhumans as ****, but what do you expect after the Scoia'Tel commit mass murder. Niflgaard was smart to kill so many unit leaders after the war ended.

Right and Wrong don't factor into it. There is being a smart person with a plan ( like Henselt or Dethmold ) and then there is being a complete fool like Iorveth or Yaevinn.

I've been following up on your points, while interesting I have to respectfully disagree,

I'd say Ioverth's path in creating a whole new multi-racial kingdom in the north is just as equal as saving the Temerian throne with Roche's path saving Anais, if not better (considering a possible Nilfgaardian invasion will happen really soon and Anais is not that capable in both mind and age to govern through that).

You bring up and interesting point that the other kingdoms won't support Saskia's kingdom (let's call it the Pontar for simplicity in this conversation) in war. Well that's not the case. Last I recall, Pontar is not at the border of Nilfgaard, that's Lyria and Temeria (if I'm reading the map coorectly). So if Nilfgaard were to invade then the Northern Kingdoms would have to band together, just like they did at Sodden and Brenna.

The pro to the newly-formed Pontar is that the North now have the best archers in the known world, the Scoia'tael, not to mention any assets the dwarves can make. With Pontar the terrorist acts of Scoia'tael would be gone, sure there might be possible rogue bands, but not to the degree of full on guerilla war of the past.

And to futher strengthen this foresight, Saskia must be pretty stupid if she doesn't aid the rest of the North against a Nilfgaard invasion. And judging from what we learend from Saskia, she's anything but that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I question the Pontar Kingdoms' ability to survive personally. I am not convinced that "those who control the Pontar control the North" thing necessarily, seeing how Aedirn controlled it for a long while and it's still the weakest of the four Northern kingdoms. Plus it's landlocked and anyone controlling Flotsam can block all maritime trade (hence the stroke of genius from Dethmold to bring Loredo under their banner).

Furthermore, if Act 2 is any indication, at best they were able to muster an army of a thousand men to protect their capital. Not what I would call impressive. Not when Nilfgaard can gather hundred of thousands.

And, I personally am skeptical of how this racial coexistence is supposed to work. For me, it all sounds like rhetoric, same as Saskia trying to play egalitarian between peasants and nobles. We hear Dwarves expressing concern over human encroachment. The crimes of the Scoia'tael are not gong to be forgotten or forgiven easily...etc. One the common enemy is gone, I question how long peace would last. I am willing to bet that **** would hit the fan, unless Saskia proves to be a formidable state woman and institution builder, which I personally doubt she will be.

Don't get me wrong, while I do find Saskia to be a bit foolish, I also find her interesting and to a certain extent, impressive. And she's definitely the only one who right now has a policy towards nonhumans that I'd respect, namely attracting them to join humans in a common cause, despite her apparent naivety and simplicity regarding the policy.

But I personally prefer strengthening Redenia and Kaedwen. And for me, giving Anais to Natalis is unwise.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 juin 2011 - 02:53 .

[Bejos_]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I question the Pontar Kingdoms' ability to survive personally. I am not convinced that "those who control the Pontar control the North" thing, seeing how Aedirn controlled it for a long while and it's still the weakest of the four Northern kingdoms. Plus it's landlocked and anyone controlling Flotsam can block all maritime trade (hence the stroke of genius from Dethmold to bring Loredo under their banner).

Furthermore, if Act 2 is any indication, at best they were able to muster an army of a thousand men to protect their capital. Not what I would call impressive. Not when Nilfgaard can gather hundred of thousands.

And, I personally am skeptical of how this racial coexistence is supposed to work. For me, it all sounds like rhetoric, same as Saskia trying to play egalitarian between peasants and nobles. We hear Dwarves expressing concern over human encroachment. The crimes of the Scoia'tael are not gong to be forgotten or forgiven easily...etc.

Don't get me wrong, while I do find Saskia to be a bit foolish, I also find her interesting and to a certain extent, impressive. And she's definitely the only one who right now has a policy towards nonhumans that I'd respect, namely attracting them to join humans in a common cause (though I'd argue that once that common enemy is gone, **** is going to hit the fan unless she has something in mind).

But I personally prefer strengthening Redenia and Kaedwen. And for me, giving Anais to Natalis is unwise.

You're forgetting that there are people who are charismatic, and who can inspire belief in an ideal that eclipses realities. If that person stays in power long enough, they may just be able to manipulate their subjects into a more holistic, symbiotic way of being with their fellow races.

Another thought. Saskia couldn't, as a [Spoiler!], attack Nilfgaard. How many mages does it have on its side and how many soldiers? She wouldn't make a dent. The idea that she could fight off the South by herself isn't believable. The other Northen Kingdoms might join with her during the Nilfgaard invasion, but I'm pretty sure that, once the war were done with, they would turn on her and her domain, as it would be in its weakest position directly after the North/South conflict is resolved.

Modifié par Bejos_, 11 juin 2011 - 02:59 .

[DragonRageGT]

YohkoOhno wrote...

I agree Bejos. I think because we've been the dominant culture for so long it leads to a level of arrogance on the part of many Americans. We don't learn the languages of other cultures but everybody else learns English.

Europe is probably going to be the savior of the traditional RPG, because Japan has their own take and North America seems to be having them evolve into a hybrid of action and more real time instead of turn based gaming.

You're so right. I wonder why I went to live in London to learn it...

[KnightofPhoenix]

Bejos_ wrote...
You're forgetting that there are people who are charismatic, and who can inspire belief in an ideal that eclipses realities. If that person stays in power long enough, they may just be able to manipulate their subjects into a more holistic, symbiotic way of being with their fellow races.

Charismatic people don't live forever. Once they are dead, all it takes is one push and racial hatred will stir up again.

If she wants this to last, she better institutionalize it and codify it in some strong enforceable law.

[Bejos_]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...
You're forgetting that there are people who are charismatic, and who can inspire belief in an ideal that eclipses realities. If that person stays in power long enough, they may just be able to manipulate their subjects into a more holistic, symbiotic way of being with their fellow races.

Charismatic people don't live forever. Once they are dead, all it takes is one push and racial hatred will stir up again.

If she wants this to last, she better institutionalize it and codify it in some strong enforceable law.

Well, yes, that's what I meant by "manipulate". There would be laws. She could also have the races work together to create things that obviously bettered all of their lives. She could expel/deny people access on the basis of their egalitarian ethos or lack thereof. The point is, it's not inconceivable that she could create a realm that is egalitarian, and that she could prevent outside factors from influencing her subjects.

She'd need to create something like North Korea, I imagine, but it's not impossible.

[Nigawatts]

You also have to realize that Aedirn had just been in a Civil War. The army at Vergen isn't Aedirn's army, it's Saskia's Peasant Rebellion. And I can see the Pontar Valley being strategically valuable during ANY time. Gotta remember it wasn't just Hensalt trying to take it, Foltest had taken Flotsam from Aedirn a few years before.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Bejos_ wrote...
Well, yes, that's what I meant by "manipulate". There would be laws. She could also have the races work together to create things that obviously bettered all of their lives. She could expel/deny people access on the basis of their egalitarian ethos or lack thereof. The point is, it's not inconceivable that she could create a realm that is egalitarian, and that she could prevent outside factors from influencing her subjects.

She'd need to create something like North Korea, I imagine, but it's not impossible.

Not saying it's impossible, but I question her ability to pull if off, especially considering her condition.
I also question how desirable that would be, but that's another topic.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Nigawatts wrote...

You also have to realize that Aedirn had just been in a Civil War. The army at Vergen isn't Aedirn's army, it's Saskia's Peasant Rebellion. And I can see the Pontar Valley being strategically valuable during ANY time. Gotta remember it wasn't just Hensalt trying to take it, Foltest had taken Flotsam from Aedirn a few years before.

And Saskia breaking off from Aedrin just means it's surrounded by 4 potential enemies. All of which want a piece of it.

So yea, I doubt it would be possible for the Pontar Kingdom to survive once the Northern kingdoms no longer have a huge thread upon them.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 juin 2011 - 03:14 .

[YohkoOhno]

RageGT wrote...

You're so right. I wonder why I went to live in London to learn it...

200-300 years ago, it would have been Britian who said that.  But when people in England call the US President "the most powerful man in the world", like I see on several of their shows (Dr. Who, for instance), I suspect the balance of power changed there.

Maybe in 100-200 years we'll all have to learn Chinese.

[Bejos_]

This has obvious analogies in RL history. France ... That worked out. [Ok, that depends on your perspective ] There was a lot of upheaval for a few hundred years, and then things became mostly ... peaceful-ish.

Edit: I haven't slept all night. That was a flawed analogy. What I was trying to say with that analogy is, once an idea catches on (and I don't think egalitarianism is an unappealing notion), it's hard to quell. How much it would catch on in the Witcher world is anybody's guess, though.

Second Edit: Furthermore, states and regions fluctuate in their politics and agendas, so its somewhat inevitable that the kingdoms would fall/change eventually. Saskia might just be the catalyst.

Modifié par Bejos_, 11 juin 2011 - 03:25 .

[YohkoOhno]

Bejos is right, if you study history, it's a lot more nuanced that people think. Charismatic leaders can have a different effect based on culture and history. Chairman Mao's been dead for years yet China still has kept alive a lot of his principles--which was a very radical change from what came before.

Other Charismatic movements include changes in religions, such as the rise of Protestant religions out of the Catholic dominated Wester World.  It probably depends if the principle is strong enough to survive on its own.  After all, Feudalism eventually died out in our world.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 11 juin 2011 - 03:24 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

YohkoOhno wrote...

Bejos is right, if you study history, it's a lot more nuanced that people think. Charismatic leaders can have a different effect based on culture and history. Chairman Mao's been dead for years yet China still has kept alive a lot of his principles--which was a very radical change from what came before.

Not really. In rethoric, yea they base themselves on Mao's symbol. But in regards to actual concret policies, it's based on Deng Xiaoping.

And I have studied history.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 juin 2011 - 03:27 .