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[Bejos_]

slimgrin wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

I'm "coming in cold" and what Yohko says is right. I haven't played TW1, and couldn't bother with the books, so TW2 really should make more effort to familiarise people with its world.

I just can't agree with this. It's almost like asking a foreign filmmaker to make his movie more 'American'.

It's nothing like that. It's like asking a director, who bases his movie on a book, to provide more of what's already in the book, because some people who watch the movie don't want to have to read the bad translation (I'm guessing; otherwise the writing isn't very good ...) of the books, but still want to experience what's so enchanting about them.

Then you're denying me the journey of finding out on my own what The witcher is all about. I don't need everything encapsulated in the game.

Eh? Isn't TW's world based on the world in the books? That's like saying you don't want to watch The Lord of the Rings movies because you don't want to find out about the deep, or because you don't want to know how removed the shire is from everything that's going on in the rest of the story's universe. Am I missing something?

[FlintlockJazz]

Ladies, lets all chill out here now before it gets too heated. If it makes you feel better tell me to go plough myself in the arse and get it out of your system.

[Dragoonlordz]

Bejos_ wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

I'm "coming in cold" and what Yohko says is right. I haven't played TW1, and couldn't bother with the books, so TW2 really should make more effort to familiarise people with its world.

Then explain exactly what you did not understand in TW2 that specifically inhibits your understand of the world itself or more accurately stops you understanding the story. If your too lazy to search for any additional information that is not required to understand the story and progression in TW2 then thats your flaw not the games.

Dragoonlordz, I'm not going to get into the specifics with you because, as previously evidenced, you'll boil my points down to "You didn't pay attention! It's all there!" or "You're too lazy to read the internetz!" or "You should spend more money and buy the books! They explain it all!" (I do admire your tactics, though. Keep repeating the same thing until the other person capitulates. Does it really feel like you've "won" just because the other person gives up a tiresome conversation?)

The point is, just like movies based on books, the game has to be able to stand on its own. Uhm ... imagine if the Spiderman movies didn't explain anything about MJ's and Peter's relationship, and just dropped us in the middle of it. Could we understand what was happening? Sure. Would we comprehend what was so important about the relationship, or how it came to be, or why it's falling apart or managing to hold itself together? No, not really.

Like I said, I enjoy that the world is described so sparsely, because this way it lasts longer. But I also know a lot of other people are just going to give up on it because it's too abstruse.

Eh? Isn't TW's world based on the world in the books? That's like sayingyou don't want to watch The Lord of the Rings movies because you don't want to find out about the deep, or because you don't want to know how removed the shire is from everything that's going on in the rest of the story's universe. Am I missing something?

An as said thats optional how deep you wish to go into everything, it changes from person to person. The issue is everything that was covered in TW2 was done more than adequately for new players. Blaming the game for you wanting more information, information that is available in other products and as a business makes sense to make money from hooking people on a story and them buying more to resolve their curiosty. That is what TW2 does and you and/or Yohko saying you want more for free (when is free online and more sources) or from buying TW1 or the books is immature.

No what you and Yohko are suggesting has more in common with being too cheap and lazy to watch the movies and instead want everything that is covered in those movies inside each product.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 juin 2011 - 05:59 .

[YohkoOhno]

I think the other important thing to remember is, by design, unlike books or movies, video games tend to know that for many people it will be their first time playing and thus are more accessible than books and movies are. In some cases it takes 5-10 years for a sequel, and there are even basic technological changes since then, so you can't depend on the old audience all the time. Which is why some games replace the protagonist, or reintroduce the mechanics via tutorials.

[YohkoOhno]

That is what TW2 does and you and/or Yohko saying you want more for free (when is free online and more sources) or from buying TW1 or the books is immature.

We're saying the best way to explain the game world is in the game.

Calling people names because they don't agree with you is the height of immaturity. The reason why I don't just ignore you or just let you have the last word is because I fear you are trying to be a bully in this thread and shut down contrary opinions, and I don't run away from bullies.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 11 juin 2011 - 06:01 .

[Bejos_]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Blaming the game for you wanting more information, information that is available in other products and as a business makes sense to make money from hooking people on a story and them buying more to resolve their curiosty. That is what TW2 does and you and/or Yohko saying you want more for free (when is free online and more sources) or from buying TW1 or the books is immature.

No what you and Yohko are suggesting has more in common with being too cheap and lazy to watch the movies and instead want everything that is covered in those movies inside each product.

Okay, Dragoonlordz, you won. Congratulations. Did you get a good feeling inside by calling us immature, and by avoiding the crux of the issues Yohko and I take with the game? If so, good for you.

Dear Lord(s) ...

Modifié par Bejos_, 11 juin 2011 - 06:06 .

[Dragoonlordz]

YohkoOhno wrote...

That is what TW2 does and you and/or Yohko saying you want more for free (when is free online and more sources) or from buying TW1 or the books is immature.

We're saying the best way to explain the game world is in the game.

Calling people names because they don't agree with you is the height of immaturity. The reason why I don't just ignore you or just let you have the last word is because I fear you are trying to be a bully in this thread and shut down contrary opinions, and I don't run away from bullies.

No I am arguing with you about something that your being immature about. Like I already said everything that is needed in TW2 is in TW2 you want it all and you want it all for free claiming that that is what other people will want the group that is "in from the cold". A tutorial teaches you how to play, changes to improve that are fine but your arrogance regarding wanting everything covered in the other products within each game is childish and would do serious damage to the business itself.

A game is designed to hook people into the world peak their curiosity and then the player buys other products relating to that world to resolve that curiosity making the developer more money and also filling the desire for enough to get them hooked in the first place. Your ignorance of that I do find insulting to the developers and your speaking for others when they neither asked you too and more accurately might not feel same way as you is arrogant.

Eh? Isn't TW's world based on the world in the books? That's like saying you don't want to watch The Lord of the Rings movies because you don't want to find out about the deep, or because you don't want to know how removed the shire is from everything that's going on in the rest of the story's universe. Am I missing something?

As I said your analogy is best describing what you are asking for, because what you and Yohko are suggesting has more in common with being too cheap and lazy to watch the movies and instead want everything that is covered in those movies inside each product.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 juin 2011 - 06:11 .

[blothulfur]

Just noticed that in the last flashback you have with letho there are three folk stood at the giants side not just Serrit and Auckes, is this mysterious third man the assassin from the end of the original or was that one of the two other witchers he mentions who will now have a home because he colluded with Emhyr.

If it's the former then what else is he lying about, if so i'm glad I killed him for violating witcher neutrality.

[Bejos_]

[Never mind. **** it. Won't go there.]

Modifié par Bejos_, 11 juin 2011 - 06:10 .

[YohkoOhno]

The key thing about TW1 is that--I assume Geralt is given amnesia to make him a blank slate for people who are unfamiliar with the character. I think that is one of the design goals.

If that is true, then we should see his memory come back in TW2 in a more dramatic method--don't just show us the Wild Hunt, show maybe one of those animated scenes telling us why Yennifer was so important to Geralt.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

I'm back on the thread, after leaving weeks ago to stay abscent from spoilers!

I just finished the game minutes ago and man, what a ride. Seriously, one of the best stories in gaming, period. More even if you count the events of the first game. So many plots and subplots coming together to make this great chapter in the story of Geralt of Rivia. Everything came together beautifully for me, except his past when he lost his memory when I lost track of the events, maybe on a second play I'll handle it.

I never felt the ending came abruptly like many say, the story of Assassin's of Kings ended there, it was finished. The consequences of it though, another story, just where it ended in where TW3 will start, obviously and I can't wait to see what will be the consequences of my choices, and my god what choices were that! Heavy ones! I see they're going to some Mass Effect vibe in this way to some extent. I know some won't mean much like leaving Letho alive or not but the state of the Northern Kingdoms for sure will. In the story department for sure an achievement in the gaming industry.

As for gameplay there are obvious bugs and design problems like balancing the difficulty but I think those can be handled well with patchs and I was overall very satisfied. Chapter 3 should be longer, too short in comparison to 1 and 2. The area of Loc Muine should be bigger with more characters and sidequests, although the gargoyle contract was very well thought to the point I had no clue of what to do with the glyphs and had to run for the wiki lol. Maybe DLC can solve that. Troll trouble should a quest in Chapter 3, not one if you know what I mean.

I have much more to talk about this game, but not now, my head's still busy with the ending.

Loved it. Great game! 9/10.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 11 juin 2011 - 06:12 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Bejos_ wrote...

Dragoonlordz, sate my curiosity and tell me: How old are you?

I'll take the bait and say 31 and suggest that if you don't understand where I'm coming from then you do not understand how a business works. As a business you make a title put inside that title enough to hook the player into wanting to know more and cover everything you need to know to play that game and understand what's going on and in doing so make more money from them buying other resources, failing that everything is free online knowledge wise.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 juin 2011 - 06:14 .

[hangmans tree]

No, its the four of them who started the kingslaying. One killed in the end of TW1 and three of them present in TW2.

I'm doing mu Iorveth path now and gotta say they did good them CDPR ;P Both sides are equal fun, what coomes on top is just played preferences. That is great imo. I like more the side of the story from Iorveth's path but I really like Roche.

Dammit. This is just too good...

[YohkoOhno]

I'll take the bait and say 31 and suggest that if you don't understand where I'm coming from then you do not understand how a business works.

We have trouble understanding where you are coming from because instead of just accepting different opinions and being able to debate civilly you feel the need to shout them down or attack the people with insults who don't agree with you.

[Dragoonlordz]

YohkoOhno wrote...

I'll take the bait and say 31 and suggest that if you don't understand where I'm coming from then you do not understand how a business works.

We have trouble understanding where you are coming from because instead of just accepting different opinions and being able to debate civilly you feel the need to shout them down or attack the people with insults who don't agree with you.

Well maybe if you opened your mind instead of hiding in your bubble and see where I'm coming from and stop speaking for others when they did not ask you too and most probably do not feel the same as you, then you wouldn't come across so arrogant.

Speak for yourself and what you want not what others want and I would have less of an issue with you. Not including the lore argument your trying to suggest which is not only poor one but damaging to a business. It breaks the simply rule of supply what is needed and hook people on for which they buy more of your products, not include everything so they have no need or desire to find out more.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 juin 2011 - 06:19 .

[Bejos_]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

Dragoonlordz, sate my curiosity and tell me: How old are you?

I'll take the bait and say 31 and suggest that if you don't understand where I'm coming from then you do not understand how a business works.

You're conflating CDPR with a whole host of other businesses ... that publishing house that published A. Sapkowski's books has little to do with TW games, and the TV series based on that same author's book have very little to do with the games ...

CDPR know that whatever retro sales they're going to make will be very miniscule. Most people who bought TW2 but didn't buy TW1 are not going to go back and suddenly buy TW1. I sure as hell am not going to get TW1; I think it's a horrible game. The reason I like TW2 is because it's not TW1.

And I won't be buying the books because they're horribly translated (or are just badly-written pieces of fiction even in their native tongue).

And I won't be watching the TV series because it a) doesn't air in my country and I dislike badly-made fantasy series.

You're overestimating and conflating a hell of a lot of topics. At this point I'm chalking this all down to your being a fanboy. Also, if this is the way you resolve differences with everyone, I feel very badly for you. If Yohko wishes to continue talking with you on this topic, more power to her. I've met enough people like you to know that it's just a waste of time trying to have a conversation. Have fun.

Modifié par Bejos_, 11 juin 2011 - 06:20 .

[YohkoOhno]

Not including the lore argument your trying to suggest which is not only poor one but damaging to a business.

Hey, if I make a so-called "stupid suggestion" and hypothetically Bioware or CDPJ or anybody else goes under because they listened to it, it's not my fault. Like I said, I'll give my opinions on things, and I will respect the people who disagree with me. At the end of the day, it's a game, not a religion or lifestyle.

[Zcorck]

YohkoOhno wrote...

The key thing about TW1 is that--I assume Geralt is given amnesia to make him a blank slate for people who are unfamiliar with the character. I think that is one of the design goals.

If that is true, then we should see his memory come back in TW2 in a more dramatic method--don't just show us the Wild Hunt, show maybe one of those animated scenes telling us why Yennifer was so important to Geralt.

Yeah I think so too, since starting with a blank slate is a fairly common way of starting, but I like how they didn't just leave it at that but tie a fairly interesting plot to it.

I half-agree on the 2nd part I think. It'd be nice to see why Yennifer is so important to Geralt for sure, but I feel that we should see her in the game first for a measure of her.

[YohkoOhno]

I half-agree on the 2nd part I think. It'd be nice to see why Yennifer is so important to Geralt for sure, but I feel that we should see her in the game first for a measure of her.

True, but that's why I suggested using the "Cartoon Drawing" method to show that flashback, rather than an in-game cutscene.  

[FlintlockJazz]

I think the reason why they don't go into why Yen is so important to him is because Geralt himself has yet to remember. His memory may be returning but it's still got some way to go before he can recall everything, he's pretty much just had a few flashes really. Also, going into why Yen is so important is kinda awkward since their relationship wasn't very straightforward, do you show the part in The Last Wish where Geralt makes the wish and risk people thinking they were only in love because of that and it was all magical, or do you show some meaningless 'lovey dovey' scenes that again miss the tempestuous relationship of Geralt and Yen?

[Dragoonlordz]

Bejos_ wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

Dragoonlordz, sate my curiosity and tell me: How old are you?

I'll take the bait and say 31 and suggest that if you don't understand where I'm coming from then you do not understand how a business works.

You're conflating CDPR with a whole host of other businesses ... that publishing house that published A. Sapkowski's books has little to do with TW games, and the TV series based on that same author's book have very little to do with the games ...

CDPR know that whatever retro sales they're going to make will be very miniscule. Most people who bought TW2 but didn't buy TW1 are not going to go back and suddenly buy TW1. I sure as hell am not going to get TW1; I think it's a horrible game. The reason I like TW2 is because it's not TW1.

I did pick up TW1 because of TW2 as did many others. Because we wanted to know more, the same applies to people who buy the books because they want to know more. That is how a business works that is what they have done.

And I won't be buying the books because they're horribly translated (or are just badly-written pieces of fiction even in their native tongue).

And I won't be watching the TV series because it a) doesn't air in my country and I dislike badly-made fantasy series.

You're overestimating and conflating a hell of a lot of topics. At this point I'm chalking this all down to your being a fanboy. Also, if this is the way you resolve differences with everyone, I feel very badly for you. If Yohko wishes to continue talking with you on this topic, more power to her. I've met enough people like you to know that it's just a waste of time trying to have a conversation. Have fun.

Good for you, if your not interested in finding out more about the franchise of the Witcher whether other games or books thats your issue not mine but doesn't change fact you and Yohko are asking for something that is neither needed or required.

[FlintlockJazz]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

I'm back on the thread, after leaving weeks ago to stay abscent from spoilers!

I just finished the game minutes ago and man, what a ride. Seriously, one of the best stories in gaming, period. More even if you count the events of the first game. So many plots and subplots coming together to make this great chapter in the story of Geralt of Rivia. Everything came together beautifully for me, except his past when he lost his memory when I lost track of the events, maybe on a second play I'll handle it.

I never felt the ending came abruptly like many say, the story of Assassin's of Kings ended there, it was finished. The consequences of it though, another story, just where it ended in where TW3 will start, obviously and I can't wait to see what will be the consequences of my choices, and my god what choices were that! Heavy ones! I see they're going to some Mass Effect vibe in this way to some extent. I know some won't mean much like leaving Letho alive or not but the state of the Northern Kingdoms for sure will. In the story department for sure an achievement in the gaming industry.

As for gameplay there are obvious bugs and design problems like balancing the difficulty but I think those can be handled well with patchs and I was overall very satisfied. Chapter 3 should be longer, too short in comparison to 1 and 2. The area of Loc Muine should be bigger with more characters and sidequests, although the gargoyle contract was very well thought to the point I had no clue of what to do with the glyphs and had to run for the wiki lol. Maybe DLC can solve that. Troll trouble should a quest in Chapter 3, not one if you know what I mean.

I have much more to talk about this game, but not now, my head's still busy with the ending.

Loved it. Great game! 9/10.

FlintlockJazz approves of this post and agrees fully.   Especially about the ending, I can see how people who have only done Roche's path might think that the dragon came out of left field on them but once you have done both you realise how all the pieces come together.

[Bejos_]

Anyway ... for those of you who felt that Act 3 was too short: What would you like to see added in DLC?

I was hoping for a few more political side quests. Also one or two (new) monster hunts. I'm sure they could do a really great DLC with the snowscape that you walk through to reach Loc Muinne.

[Anathemic]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Anathemic wrote...
I admit my main focus is the Scoia'tael forces. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that not every single Scoia'tael band was present at Vergen.

Guerilla warfare can only get you so far yes, but this is where the Northern forces come into play, I don't see the Scoia'tael alone winning a war against an empire. Plus guerilla warfare specilaize in attacking key resources like supply routes or weakened spots in an enemy force.

If their previous acts are any indication, the Scoia'tael at best were an annoyance to the northern kingdoms. Their guerilla tactics did not pose a major threat. The only semblance of that was Yaevinn's revolt, but we know that Jacques was secretly behind it.

Not saying they won't be of any help. I'm sure they would prove useful, if in coordination with the North. But I personally would rather take a stronger Kaedwen, Redenia and a stablized Temeria. The Northern forces would be weakened if Temeria is weakened, Kaedwen lost and Redenia didn't spread its sphere of influence.

Furthermore, the Scoia'Tael already hate Nilfgaard. While they may not be as united as with Iorveth, it's not impossible for them to fight with the North if persuaded to.

As for having a Redanian-controlled Temeria, it all comes down to Radovid's competence. He is young and we don't know much about him. Can he lead his own country into war successfully, let alone 2?

Yes, I think he can. So far, he's shown himself very competent and he did assist Foltest in bringing down the Order revolt (and ingeniously took them under his wing).

Not saying it's guaranteed that he is a master strategist, but I'd prefer taking my chances with him. Furthermore, we know that he's having a military build up.

Judging from the Blood of Elves novel, the Scoia'tael are much more than rogue bands, they stage 'commandos' and assault multiple kingdoms of the North, like seen in Vizima in TW1. That wasn't an annoyance, that was full on civil war inside the city.

I don't nessarily agree that Jacque 'staged' it, more like 'provoked' the Scoia'tael enough to actually invade the city. I don't recall him having any spheres of influence over Yaevinn or the Scoia'tael.

Not to mention in TW2 Ioverth is a veteran of taking over settlements from the North.

As for being persuaded to join the fight for the North from the rest of the Northern Kingdoms, it might work, I'm not sure. The Scoia'tael don't trust humans, and I doubt the monarchs themselves would keep their word if they made a promise/deal with the Scoia'tael to deal with the Nilfgaardians.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Anathemic wrote...
As for being persuaded to join the fight for the North from the rest of the Northern Kingdoms, it might work, I'm not sure. The Scoia'tael don't trust humans, and I doubt the monarchs themselves would keep their word if they made a promise/deal with the Scoia'tael to deal with the Nilfgaardians.

They don't have to keep their promises once the empire is defeated. I know I wouldn't.
I'd think the Scoia'tael would be more inclined to side with the North, than Nilfgaard that backstabbed them.

I mean if I was the Nilfgaardian Emperor and I wanted to raise my reputation amongst the conquered Nordlings, I'd wipe out the Scoia'tael.

And I am still not convinced that the Scoia'tael are that much of a threat, at least on their own. Wiping out a few settlements is not what I'd call a major threat and Yaevinn's uprising seemed like a one of a kind thing.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 juin 2011 - 06:41 .