13812 réponses à ce sujet

[billy the squid]

RageGT wrote...

Ahh Ves, always a good shot that one. Why can't we toast under Saskia... I mean, with Saskia!  *sighs*

And here's a plalist for all my TW2 vids. I won't be capturing them any more so soon or at least until I get a better video card. Insane diff with low FPS is too risky! =)

Warning... lots of Spoilers too, not only combat! =)

http://www.youtube.c...1C596010E810AFC

Maybe we will in another Witcher game or expansion (fingers, toes, legs and arms crossed) Personally I loved how Saskia looked and how she was represented as a strong character despite the position her forces were in.

[jonesy1138]

Jan Bartkowicz wrote...

More than those two things are left unresolved (Boussy's fate etc.)... we sure wish to cover it all in future releases.

I feel relieved knowing that all these things werent oversights and are intentional, especially the first assassin because it was such an obvious loose end.

Jan Bartkowicz wrote...

As for the game's nature... we do have to work with the feedback we receive. That said, we have to keep are heads cool, and make sure we are "fixing" our game, and not "changing it". We have to admit to our obvious shortcomings in some departments (tutorial, doors system, targeting system etc..).

The foundations of the game/story are solid, so its nothing that cannot be fixed with patches or even DLC, it depends on how far are you guys willing to go to make the game perfect (hopefully by november). For instance, I feel that theres simply too much action and too much important stuff happening in the prologue to make an adequate tutorial, you cant pay attention to everything. IMO the solution would be to make a tutorial separate from the main campaign (like in BG2) where you get to learn all the combat, alchemy, etc... at a slower pace, with time to test all your different moves and all that stuff. If you are wiling to go even further (needing additional voice acting), perhaps it could recall the important events of TW1, maybe narrated by Dandelion singing the epic story of Geralt of Rivia 'Saviour of Vizima and King Foltest', and where you get to make some of the decisions that are imported into TW2. This way you solve the tutorial problem, you fill in console gamers on what happened in TW1 and you give us a savegame editor of sorts. Its a win-win-win . The problem is money ofc.

Jan Bartkowicz wrote...

But in spite of it all the reception around the world is great, and proves you can really make games you would love to play, challenge yourself as a developer (instead of just sticking to some "success formula"), and challenge your players as well. In the end we want an RPG to be a rewarding experience (story and gameplay-wise). Reward you do not work for is not actually a reward after all, is it?

I agree with all of this, although you guys may want to look into itemization and gear progression in the 2nd half of the game (its out of wack in Ch3) where you start getting really powerful gear without any effort, making the previously hard fights trivial.

Keep up the good work.

[blothulfur]

Thinking about it i'd just add another part to Roches interrogation where he asks you about your meeting with Fitz Oesterlen on the day before the battle, they already depicted such a meeting in one of the trailers and it could begin with Geralt sparring with Foltest or his knights so that you learn combat basics before before interrupted by a nilfgaardian messenger asking you to atend an audience with the emissary which would give you an opportunity to test the conversation skills before returning to your tent to practise your signs with Triss and brew your potions for tomorrows battle.

I'm curious as to Boussy's fate too wild hunt, nilfgaard or just rotting in the ground, you've got to feel for those poor little bastards they've got sod all luck.

[slimgrin]

Not a bad idea bloth. And Foltest's kids have rough luck for sure. Poor little Anais.

[blothulfur]

Yeah the psychological punch of an angelic little lass with big eyes who's struggling to be brave is a brutally efficient form of grabbing the players sympathy that works even though we've only just been introduced to them, clever design by cdproject.

[YohkoOhno]

Adding an extended tutorial would probably be easy to add as DLC. I think this is going to be really important before you release the XBOX game because that audience will not have the opportunity to play the first game and you'll need to give them that option.

Story wise, an idea would be to have a scribe or scholar ask to learn about Witcher powers and combat prowess from Geralt. This way, while Geralt shows this person his expertise, the player gets the ability to experience first-hand the various signs and how they work.

This will be important as I agree with what the Penny Arcade guys say about the game.

I installed The Witcher 2 on the PC we have in the office here so that Gabriel could see with his own eyes some of the things I’ve been telling him about. While I was home this morning teaching my daughter which berries are to be avoided, he was here playing through the game’s nominal “tutorial,” a sequence of retrospective vignettes that can be played in any order. When I got in, he told me that he had died twelve times at the same spot and then quit. I knew the spot he was taking about; I’d died there myself.

Forty-seven times.

He didn’t believe me when I said “forty-seven,” but I started counting it. It’s partly my fault. I wanted to see if something was possible, and it wasn’t! It really, really wasn’t.

I’m not sure what they were thinking with this stuff, I honestly don’t; this dogged refusal to help the player. If I had to guess, it is this way because they didn’t want to do some boring, typical tutorial sequence that insults the player and makes their titular warmaster out to be some concussed dip****, taking part in some remedial course for monster slayers. That’s certainly something I can understand. What’s happened in the absence of a true “booster phase,” though, is that people who want to play the game but lack psychic ability are forcibly driven out.
It has tooltips that pop up from time to time, but if you’re under active assault by a dragon maybe you aren’t looking at that. This game doesn’t really play like others, your skills either from action titles or the role-playing genre won’t really cross apply. A Witcher is tough, but he’s not optimal unless he takes time to prepare for a fight, which involves the brewing, consumption, or application of various things inside or outside the body. This is one of the things that make up the odd cadence of this world. So much is left to chance.

PC Games can be cantankerous, idiosyncratic, occasionally unrelenting, and unwilling to make concessions. I happen to like that kind of thing; that’s more or less my own philosophy. We are just... unreconstructed, is the word. If they’re serious about bringing this to consoles, the first hour of the game needs to go up on the lift. Those nines and tens it’s pulling now won’t survive contact with that audience.

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 12 juin 2011 - 12:58 .

[slimgrin]

I think one of the prime reasons they kept the tutorial to a minimum is it can interfere with the flow of the story and yes, it can break the fourth wall. I still think most everything the player needs is in the well fleshed out journal, and I have no problem with trial and error as a teacher. But here is a possible alternative: have challenge rooms like Arkham Asylum did, where you can choose from a variety of enemies to fight, arena style. It would give the player a chance to work on combat basics outside of the main game.

[slimgrin]

blothulfur wrote...

Yeah the psychological punch of an angelic little lass with big eyes who's struggling to be brave is a brutally efficient form of grabbing the players sympathy that works even though we've only just been introduced to them, clever design by cdproject.

The part where she's being led away by the heavily armored soldier at the end. She's standing there all poised and diginified, the very picture of 'nobility' yet we all know how she feels on the inside. That has to be one of my favorite scenes in the game, and yes its all highly calculated as you say.

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 juin 2011 - 01:19 .

[YohkoOhno]

True, I also think they figured that most people would have played the original, but there are two problems with that train of thought.

1) Some people might be turned off by the already dated engine of TW1, and TW2 has changed the rules of combat so they still need to be introduced.

2) The XBOX crowd doesn't have the option to play the original.

I felt they were trying to wow more people with the storyline--wow, look, we are in the middle of a battle, look at what the engine can do. I'm not a big fan of "In Media Res" in stories--while the storyline was wonderful, I think the sudden in media res combined with the Jail flashback overwhelms the new player and I think the game could have done the same job without having to go through that sort of storyline.

That's another idea for a possible tutorial--maybe he falls unconscious in jail after a beating and then flashes back to his training as a novice Witcher or something--it would also help to introduce the Witcher concept to new people. The first game did a great job of doing this.

It's a mixed bag--you don't want to go over a story in a sequel, but computer games are not the same as movies and a lot of people end up playing games that don't start at the beginning.  

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 12 juin 2011 - 01:20 .

[blothulfur]

Like the challenge room idea, perhaps frame it as Geralt accompanying some of Roche's lads on a saboteur mission before the battle. Though i'd kill to play as Thirteen and get my hands on one of those arbalests.

Like the jail flashback idea as well, if only so we can see Kaer Morhen once more and all our brother witchers.

[Monica83]

i had not problem with control itself.. I just readed the manual its just lazy don't do that..Anyways the compas is nice.. Nice action elements and nice use of skill and tactics...I like it

[fchopin]

I have stopped playing the game as i don't like the combat control that Geralt has, very slow and sluggish and keyboard controls very slow reactions.

Nothing to do with the difficulty, i am forced to combat in a certain way to get past enemies with very little control of Geralt.

When this is fixed i will continue with the game but not before it's fixed.

Game needs more character control where combat is involved and a better keyboard layout.

[Monica83]

I don't know honestly i find the combat very good.. A lot of tactics you just avoid the masses and try to isolate a single ennemy and use the skills and signs well and you have not problem.. I love also the fact that this game punish so harderd if you act like a brainless button masher.. Take your time and figure out to elaborate better tattcis when you are involved on combat.. parry and roll help..Also use signs like Aard or Quen..

[slimgrin]

fchopin wrote...

I have stopped playing the game as i don't like the combat control that Geralt has, very slow and sluggish and keyboard controls very slow reactions.

Nothing to do with the difficulty, i am forced to combat in a certain way to get past enemies with very little control of Geralt.

When this is fixed i will continue with the game but not before it's fixed.

Game needs more character control where combat is involved and a better keyboard layout.

They aren't going to change the pacing and flow of combat. Geralt moves like a real person and I like that, nor do I feel this aspect of the game is broken. But there is a lag bug when switching hotkeys and I'm beginning to think I'm the only one noticing it. 

If you haven't tapped said hotkey after Geralt has been running around a bit, it simply doesn't work and you have to tap it several times. After dong this, the key responds just fine. The one way around all this is to use the radial menu, but I'd rather use hotkeys and I found this to be very frustrating.

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 juin 2011 - 01:58 .

[blothulfur]

I know what you mean about the responsiveness seeming a little off chopin, feels a little consoleish to be honest but i've got faith cdproject will sort it. Erm you do know that you can change the keyboard layout on the input settings under options, took me a day to find that bugger and I can't see why they've ditched all the in game options that were in the first game.

Still worth enduring to experience the game in my opinion but then again a new patch will probably be out next week that might help.

[fchopin]

slimgrin wrote...

They aren't going to change the pacing and flow of combat. Geralt moves like a real person and I like that, nor do I feel this aspect of the game is broken. But there is a lag bug when switching hotkeys and I'm beginning to think I'm the only one noticing it. 

He does not move like a real person, he moves like a very slow person.
 
Also keyboard commands have very slow responsiveness, the response of pressing a key should have instant movement.
 
Don't know if you played Venetica but the rolling movement and other sword techniques were very precise, in TW2 they are about the worst i have played.

[billy the squid]

Yes the tutorial may need some work, possibly an in game log explaining how to use certain skills etc. which can be accessed via pausing the game, more for ease of access as pop ups whilst in combat are not the easiest things to read. Yet, as has been repeated numerous times, it is in the manual! I really am finding it difficult to believe that reading instructions is impossible for some people, either that or they're rather lazy.

I have actually found it refreshing that the game doesn't spend the time screaming at me through pop ups, markers and other barrages of instructions "go here, go there, kill that, no, not like that! give him this, give her that! this is bad this is good." rather it allows one to investigate or work it out through trial and error.

Frankly I think the tutorial which involved the siege of the lavalette castle was fine I enjoyed it immensly. I didn't find it overwhelming in the slightest, and I think it would be daft to assume that new players will be overwhelmed by the way the initial part of the story is told, why would they be, unless flash backs have become too complex? It shows explicitly you are in a jail, then you are interrogated by Vernon. It really couldn't have been that hard to grasp.

blothlfur's idea for a tutorial is a good one, perhaps something slightly less fast paced which doesn't quite pitch the player in head first, giving them a chance to find their feet, whilst still linked with the siege of La Valette castle, ie: sabotage mission with the blue stripes or counter an attack by the defenders on the siege lines to sabotage the siege works.

Edit:

I have not played TW1 so I am one of those new players.

Modifié par billy the squid, 12 juin 2011 - 02:22 .

[Monica83]

Very slow?... mhhhh sorry but.... did you notice geralt use two handed sword? how fast can be? and there are also some very speed combo more moves are also influenced by the position of geralt on the locked ennemy.. two handed swords are heavy its normal some attack are not so speed.. If you use the left button of the mouse you make fast blows.. the power blows mode are slower but this because they are heavy blows.. you can also mix the two style and obtain nice combos and fast ones.. I find the geralt moves much more realistic thant the da2 two handed fighter...Sayd that the combat must be a bit improved but its not so terrible how you say..

[billy the squid]

Monica83 wrote...

Very slow?... mhhhh sorry but.... did you notice geralt use two handed sword? how fast can be? and there are also some very speed combo more moves are also influenced by the position of geralt on the locked ennemy.. two handed swords are heavy its normal some attack are not so speed.. If you use the left button of the mouse you make fast blows.. the power blows mode are slower but this because they are heavy blows.. you can also mix the two style and obtain nice combos and fast ones.. I find the geralt moves much more realistic thant the da2 two handed fighter...Sayd that the combat must be a bit improved but its not so terrible how you say..

Hold on, was the comment about speed or responsiveness? I also found that when I tried to parry or cast spells in combat it didn't always work first time, it didn't happen often, but it did occur. Where as the speed on the blows I thought was fine, I prefered it far more that DA2's spasticated crystal meth style combat.

[slimgrin]

The game does have a slower pace to it than most action titles and I think it just isn't to some people's liking. To me it feels more visceral and realistic. The key responsiveness issue is a bug though and needs fixing.

Also, I never did it but you can upgrade Geralt's roll I believe so that it covers more distance.

[Monica83]

I think the responsivity to parry is a thing they need to fix in fact i tend to roll away when there are to much ennemy and press parry before the ennemy moves to hit me that help a lot..Some nice attack can be affected by the geralt position for example if you have an ennemu on front of you.. Turn geralt left and click the left button.. Geralt make a little jump and twirls hitting the ennemy from 3 to 4 times in a single attack..

I found the attack speed very realistic in much manner in my opinion this is one of the strong feature of this game

Modifié par Monica83, 12 juin 2011 - 02:39 .

[Dragoonlordz]

slimgrin wrote...

fchopin wrote...

I have stopped playing the game as i don't like the combat control that Geralt has, very slow and sluggish and keyboard controls very slow reactions.

Nothing to do with the difficulty, i am forced to combat in a certain way to get past enemies with very little control of Geralt.

When this is fixed i will continue with the game but not before it's fixed.

Game needs more character control where combat is involved and a better keyboard layout.

They aren't going to change the pacing and flow of combat. Geralt moves like a real person and I like that, nor do I feel this aspect of the game is broken. But there is a lag bug when switching hotkeys and I'm beginning to think I'm the only one noticing it. 

If you haven't tapped said hotkey after Geralt has been running around a bit, it simply doesn't work and you have to tap it several times. After dong this, the key responds just fine. The one way around all this is to use the radial menu, but I'd rather use hotkeys and I found this to be very frustrating.

I agree, the combat pace is ideal and perfect imho as is the difficulty. As to whether they could improve the controls, well you have the option of keyboard and mouse or gamepad. You can assign keys and buttons yourself so there is no problem with the actual controls merely the targetting system might be refinable but controls themselves, not really. Personally I haven't had any combat lag so can't talk about that and also because I don't have that issue can't claim it myself as needing improving.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Parry needs vigor. That's probably why it's not working for people.

[_Aine_]

slimgrin wrote...

The game does have a slower pace to it than most action titles and I think it just isn't to some people's liking. To me it feels more visceral and realistic. The key responsiveness issue is a bug though and needs fixing.

I actually like that aspect of it also.  And agree that the key responsiveness would be one *very* welcome fix.   I have stopped trying to block and just roll like a madman when cornered.  It isn't pretty, but it works as a temporary thing

Modifié par shantisands, 12 juin 2011 - 02:41 .

[Dragoonlordz]

billy the squid wrote...

Yes the tutorial may need some work, possibly an in game log explaining how to use certain skills etc. which can be accessed via pausing the game, more for ease of access as pop ups whilst in combat are not the easiest things to read. Yet, as has been repeated numerous times, it is in the manual! I really am finding it difficult to believe that reading instructions is impossible for some people, either that or they're rather lazy.

I have actually found it refreshing that the game doesn't spend the time screaming at me through pop ups, markers and other barrages of instructions "go here, go there, kill that, no, not like that! give him this, give her that! this is bad this is good." rather it allows one to investigate or work it out through trial and error.

Frankly I think the tutorial which involved the siege of the lavalette castle was fine I enjoyed it immensly. I didn't find it overwhelming in the slightest, and I think it would be daft to assume that new players will be overwhelmed by the way the initial part of the story is told, why would they be, unless flash backs have become too complex? It shows explicitly you are in a jail, then you are interrogated by Vernon. It really couldn't have been that hard to grasp.

blothlfur's idea for a tutorial is a good one, perhaps something slightly less fast paced which doesn't quite pitch the player in head first, giving them a chance to find their feet, whilst still linked with the siege of La Valette castle, ie: sabotage mission with the blue stripes or counter an attack by the defenders on the siege lines to sabotage the siege works.

Edit:

I have not played TW1 so I am one of those new players.

Agreed and thats the biggest problem with Yohko's stance. She's assuming what those who haven't played the first will need and want rather than letting those who fall into that catagory speak for themselves which she does not actually belong to that group with regard to TW2.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 12 juin 2011 - 02:44 .