13812 réponses à ce sujet

[Nigawatts]

I hear everyone complaining about the first playthrough's difficult learning curve...but anyone else feel like a god on the second playthrough? I was tearing **** up. The Nekker Cave that people cry about, was a cake walk for me. I didn't even reapply Quen, just rolled out of the group, threw a bomb, and took out like 8 of them.

Just seems to me that the game is more about skill than anything else. So people who suck obviously don't got the skills.

[Persephone]

Krusty84 wrote...


The Witcher 2 (Suite) - Adam Skorupa & Krzysztof Wierzynkiewicz (1/2)

The Witcher 2 (Suite) - Adam Skorupa & Krzysztof Wierzynkiewicz (2/2)

Thanks for sharing this. Bloody EPIC and BEAUTIFUL!

[DragonRageGT]

YohkoOhno wrote...

I'm not sure how making suggestions on how to improve the storytelling in the game to make it better is a bad thing, nor do I think any storytelling suggestions I make would hurt the game in anyway.

In fact, I do it because I want to see them succeed. It's obviously that they want this to be a hit on the consoles, and I think both the tutorial and storytelling points--for anybody on XBOX this is going to the their first exposure to the game--are important. If the game were to fail on XBOX because of these flaws, it could hurt them, and possibly jeopardize a sequel, and I don't want that to happen. (There have been very good games that fail because of mistakes).

Aw man, you make so many assumptions that i'd think you have a crystal ball or something. First, your suggestions on how to improve the storytelling are no guarantee to actually improve the storytelling. And yes, they don't hurt the game because, honestly, you must have an ego the size of Jupiter if you think they don't have a team for that and need your advice. They are looking for a Marketing Director, though... perhaps you should apply. Once you're on the team, who knows if they'll listen.

Second, assuming that for anybody on Xbox this is going to be their first exposure to the game is, wow... how can I translate delírio megalomaníaco into English?

Then, the game will not "fail" on Xbox when lots of crap do quite well. TW2 is one of those games that will live long past its time. If you can't see that, sorry but you're really close minded. Not only it will not fail but even if it did, "possibly jeopardize a sequel"? REALLY????? I don' t know what kind of **** goes thru your mind but you have no idea of what you're talking about!

Have you played Risen? From the same guys who made the real Gothic series? Do you know how much they sold? In the US and Europe and other markets? I wouldn't say 1/4 of what TW1 and TW2 will sell a lot more than that. EDIT: Forgot to say, Risen 2 is coming!!!! End EDIT.  You really think that TW1 sold 1.5 million in 1 week? NO, it did not!  You keep saying that TW2 will not sell after 2nd or 3rd week because of whatever defective thought you may have but listen, you are soooooo wrong that it hurts!

If there have been good games that failed because of mistakes, here's a wake up call for you. The Witcher 2 has already succeeded! You can deny it all you want while I enjoy the game and wait for my TW3 and whatever they give us in the between, like most of the others who are playing the game!

Modifié par RageGT, 12 juin 2011 - 05:21 .

[DragonRageGT]

Krusty84 wrote...


The Witcher 2 (Suite) - Adam Skorupa & Krzysztof Wierzynkiewicz (1/2)

The Witcher 2 (Suite) - Adam Skorupa & Krzysztof Wierzynkiewicz (2/2)

Awesome! Thanks!

[DragonRageGT]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

TL;DR version in the second paragraph

The problem with the tutorial, is that there is none. There is a tutorial in the journal, and some tips on the HUD, but that's that. The prologue is really a trial by fire. The very first combat scene you're slashing enemies but there is no moment where the game tells you what the signs do (if I remember it well), nor what the alchemy system does. This would be no problem if it wasn't so hard on fighting groups, but it is because you don't have IMO some crucial sword fighting skills the game should give you from beginning and not much vigor, which is an issue there. Those skills I mentioned would make it very much easier, which are 360 parry, whirl and maybe riposte too. Whirl and 360 defending changes the survivability completely, where the game changes from being punishing to enjoyable and at the end of the game, if you play it the right way, and use everything at your disposal, even EASY. Also, the part where you go after the balista could very well show the player how the alchemy system works and make Geralt drink potions to make it less punishing, because you will be facing a large sequence of enemies you don't see frequently on the game.

The Prologue and Chapter 1 in general show a major problem in the balance of the difficulty in the game. The harder battles you'll be facing on the game are on the beginning of it, which shouldn't be there. Seriously, Draug, the dragon and the gargoyles (which was glad to see some difficulty back on Chapter 3) are laughably easy in comparison to the fightings on the Prologue, first Letho batle, cave of nekkers on sidequests and even the Kayran. That is not good game design and the devs should be aware of that. I wanted to see the official forums back where I could go in detail but as the subject was broght I'm giving my impressions.

Edit: forgot to mention the caves with nekkers, those ones were also close to insane. Almost 10 nekkers at the same time there made me use some cheap tactics to survive.

I can do Nekker's Cave naked with one hand tighted behind my back , at level 7 and blindfolded! On INSANE diff! The best tutorial for this game is Experience with it! Letho is a wuss. I'd kill him if the game wouldn't force him to win and flee with Triss! Kayran is only a danger because of my low frame rate but it's 2x2 on Insane now! Restarted twice because of that thing but I don't think he can get me again! (first time I was not aware of small details of the fight, like Costin pointed out while making fun of me.. hehe ... second was a frame rate kill indeed!)

Modifié par RageGT, 12 juin 2011 - 05:17 .

[slimgrin]

How f*cking cool was that orchestral performance? I just wish sound quality was better. Damn. I wish I had been at the performance live.

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 juin 2011 - 05:26 .

[Damariel]

Krusty84 wrote...


The Witcher 2 (Suite) - Adam Skorupa & Krzysztof Wierzynkiewicz (1/2)

The Witcher 2 (Suite) - Adam Skorupa & Krzysztof Wierzynkiewicz (2/2)

[erynnar]

billy the squid wrote...

Yes the tutorial may need some work, possibly an in game log explaining how to use certain skills etc. which can be accessed via pausing the game, more for ease of access as pop ups whilst in combat are not the easiest things to read. Yet, as has been repeated numerous times, it is in the manual! I really am finding it difficult to believe that reading instructions is impossible for some people, either that or they're rather lazy.

I have actually found it refreshing that the game doesn't spend the time screaming at me through pop ups, markers and other barrages of instructions "go here, go there, kill that, no, not like that! give him this, give her that! this is bad this is good." rather it allows one to investigate or work it out through trial and error.

Frankly I think the tutorial which involved the siege of the lavalette castle was fine I enjoyed it immensly. I didn't find it overwhelming in the slightest, and I think it would be daft to assume that new players will be overwhelmed by the way the initial part of the story is told, why would they be, unless flash backs have become too complex? It shows explicitly you are in a jail, then you are interrogated by Vernon. It really couldn't have been that hard to grasp.

blothlfur's idea for a tutorial is a good one, perhaps something slightly less fast paced which doesn't quite pitch the player in head first, giving them a chance to find their feet, whilst still linked with the siege of La Valette castle, ie: sabotage mission with the blue stripes or counter an attack by the defenders on the siege lines to sabotage the siege works.

Edit:

I have not played TW1 so I am one of those new players.

I too am a new player and I didn't have a problem with the learn as you go, crash course of LaValette castle.  And I'm sorry, but I saw an earlier quote about a stronger better tutorial for x-box players because they won't be receptive to learning as they go? Really? That just seems ****ing proof of my elitism and the stupidity of console players--neither of which I believe, thanks.

[erynnar]

slimgrin wrote...

How f*cking cool was that orchestral performance? I just wish sound quality was better. Damn. I wish I had been at the performance live.

Really f*cking cool Slim.

[Dragoonlordz]

slimgrin wrote...

How f*cking cool was that orchestral performance? I just wish sound quality was better. Damn. I wish I had been at the performance live.

We do have the offical soundtrack high quality on the free DVD that comes with all versions of the game including standard edition. Listening to it atm as I work to be honest. 112 minutes of the games beautiful music for free even with standard edition, CDPR not only produced one of the best RPGs of the year but over many years and the quality of the retail product with all that it includes is praise worthy. They did Andrzej Sapkowski's work justice with this title and I do not think I am alone in saying that. I can only hope they stick to what they have done here and only make minor changes not large ones and certainly no changes in direction and no listening to the fear mongers using that as a weapon to force changes.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 12 juin 2011 - 06:38 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

RageGT wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

TL;DR version in the second paragraph

The problem with the tutorial, is that there is none. There is a tutorial in the journal, and some tips on the HUD, but that's that. The prologue is really a trial by fire. The very first combat scene you're slashing enemies but there is no moment where the game tells you what the signs do (if I remember it well), nor what the alchemy system does. This would be no problem if it wasn't so hard on fighting groups, but it is because you don't have IMO some crucial sword fighting skills the game should give you from beginning and not much vigor, which is an issue there. Those skills I mentioned would make it very much easier, which are 360 parry, whirl and maybe riposte too. Whirl and 360 defending changes the survivability completely, where the game changes from being punishing to enjoyable and at the end of the game, if you play it the right way, and use everything at your disposal, even EASY. Also, the part where you go after the balista could very well show the player how the alchemy system works and make Geralt drink potions to make it less punishing, because you will be facing a large sequence of enemies you don't see frequently on the game.

The Prologue and Chapter 1 in general show a major problem in the balance of the difficulty in the game. The harder battles you'll be facing on the game are on the beginning of it, which shouldn't be there. Seriously, Draug, the dragon and the gargoyles (which was glad to see some difficulty back on Chapter 3) are laughably easy in comparison to the fightings on the Prologue, first Letho batle, cave of nekkers on sidequests and even the Kayran. That is not good game design and the devs should be aware of that. I wanted to see the official forums back where I could go in detail but as the subject was broght I'm giving my impressions.

Edit: forgot to mention the caves with nekkers, those ones were also close to insane. Almost 10 nekkers at the same time there made me use some cheap tactics to survive.

I can do Nekker's Cave naked with one hand tighted behind my back , at level 7 and blindfolded! On INSANE diff! The best tutorial for this game is Experience with it! Letho is a wuss. I'd kill him if the game wouldn't force him to win and flee with Triss! Kayran is only a danger because of my low frame rate but it's 2x2 on Insane now! Restarted twice because of that thing but I don't think he can get me again! (first time I was not aware of small details of the fight, like Costin pointed out while making fun of me.. hehe ... second was a frame rate kill indeed!)

Of course you can Rage, I clap my hands for you. But you missed my point...those battles shouldn't be so difficult at this part of game. My point was, the beginning of the game shouldn't be harder than the end, it should be the other way around. Difiiculty should be a progression, not a regression. The example of the nekker caves, 10 enemies on your face, yeah this situation should be on the end of the game, not there. The last battles I faced against the niffgardians or Dethmold's kaedwini soldiers, those weren't exactly challenges, but I found them fun at least. And that's also somehow wrong because like I said, not a challenge (preparation and grou finisher made it too easy). How I was against those nekkers, not fun. There's an obvious and unavoidable issue with Letho fight for now, preventing you from using potions. Shouldn't be there.

The prologue situation shouldn't throw so much enemies at you, or you should have some backup of Foltest's soldiers more times. At that point, on the character progression, Geralt isn't ready (literally doesn't have the necessary skills) to handle like it should. How I went through these? Cheap tactics of course. I wanted to fight them how I wanted but I couldn't. Does this mean I suck at the game? Not exactly.

Anyway, I have to play it again to see how it goes now with 1.2 patch.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 12 juin 2011 - 05:49 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Krusty84 wrote...


The Witcher 2 (Suite) - Adam Skorupa & Krzysztof Wierzynkiewicz (1/2)

The Witcher 2 (Suite) - Adam Skorupa & Krzysztof Wierzynkiewicz (2/2)

Bloody epic

[Dragoonlordz]

@Ryu ~As you play a game you get better at it so naturally the difficulty seems less as progress. If you tried the endgame with the same level of skill and knowledge had at the start of the game which gained from playing through the game the endgame battle would be just as hard as the first. Thats how it should be as your ability and skill improves you should be able to cope better in the later stages of the game. There will however be mods at later stages to change such things to your hearts content but given that each person is different and some will find things harder as progress others will find it easier mostly the ones who can't cope with the learning curve will be as difficult at the end as it was at the beginning, as a base it did well.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 12 juin 2011 - 05:45 .

[slimgrin]

It will go much easier Ryu.

The difficulty, if anything, scales too little toward the end. And let me say something about the tutorial. It encourages a proactive approach from the player. It's a wake up call, a splash of cold water in the face saying 'you can't play lazy with me, you have to think.'

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 juin 2011 - 05:43 .

[gotthammer]

Krusty84 wrote...


The Witcher 2 (Suite) - Adam Skorupa & Krzysztof Wierzynkiewicz (1/2)

The Witcher 2 (Suite) - Adam Skorupa & Krzysztof Wierzynkiewicz (2/2)

Thanks! Great stuff!

Yeah...would've been cool to have been able to listen to this live. Great music for a great game.
(the most-listened game soundtracks on my iPod are for DA:O, TW1 and, now, TW2 ...great music, IMHO, all from great games)

edit:
re: difficulty and tutorials
I, too, had difficulty at the start (mostly w/ the dragon chase scene...), but nothing that reading through the Journal or learning to use what I had available didn't solve.
I did have to drop my difficulty to 'easy' (I did get through most of Act I, including past the Kayran, on 'Normal'), eventually, and I personally don't think there's anything wrong with doing that, esp. if a game's difficulty hamper's one's enjoyment (it wasn't the difficulty, per se, killing me, but the frame rate; my fault...not the game's: Oooold PC )

Modifié par gotthammer, 12 juin 2011 - 05:57 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Guys, I agree with all of you, but I don't think some of these design problems are simply avoidable because of player skill. The simple act of getting some very specific skills/abilities makes too big of a difference that I don't think they should. For example, Whirl and 360 parry are MUCH more useful (I'd say obligatory) then than Aard level 2 or more vitality or sword damage. Quen is also unbalanced to the point I would avoid using to keep my fun, it's basically a win button if you upgrade it, a nerf on it would be on my list of improvements.
The battle of Letho and Draug mostly have no time to drink potions and Draug is a joke to win compared to Letho, why is it? Why it should? Both I only used oil to enhance my damage. I got my ass kicked twice by the Draug, and when I saw that I had to break its shield first and avoid confrontation, it easily fell and I got frustrated expecting more challenge from it.

slimgrin wrote...

It will go much easier Ryu.

The difficulty, if anything, scales too little toward the end. And let me say something about the tutorial. It encourages a proactive approach from the player. It's a wake up call, a splash of cold water in the face saying 'you can't play lazy with me, you have to think.'

Exactly. It scales too little. I got surprised to see how the gargoyles behaved, lost to them twice. But even then, easy compared to prologue and chapter 1.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 12 juin 2011 - 06:10 .

[billy the squid]

erynnar wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Yes the tutorial may need some work, possibly an in game log explaining how to use certain skills etc. which can be accessed via pausing the game, more for ease of access as pop ups whilst in combat are not the easiest things to read. Yet, as has been repeated numerous times, it is in the manual! I really am finding it difficult to believe that reading instructions is impossible for some people, either that or they're rather lazy.

I have actually found it refreshing that the game doesn't spend the time screaming at me through pop ups, markers and other barrages of instructions "go here, go there, kill that, no, not like that! give him this, give her that! this is bad this is good." rather it allows one to investigate or work it out through trial and error.

Frankly I think the tutorial which involved the siege of the lavalette castle was fine I enjoyed it immensly. I didn't find it overwhelming in the slightest, and I think it would be daft to assume that new players will be overwhelmed by the way the initial part of the story is told, why would they be, unless flash backs have become too complex? It shows explicitly you are in a jail, then you are interrogated by Vernon. It really couldn't have been that hard to grasp.

blothlfur's idea for a tutorial is a good one, perhaps something slightly less fast paced which doesn't quite pitch the player in head first, giving them a chance to find their feet, whilst still linked with the siege of La Valette castle, ie: sabotage mission with the blue stripes or counter an attack by the defenders on the siege lines to sabotage the siege works.

Edit:

I have not played TW1 so I am one of those new players.

I too am a new player and I didn't have a problem with the learn as you go, crash course of LaValette castle.  And I'm sorry, but I saw an earlier quote about a stronger better tutorial for x-box players because they won't be receptive to learning as they go? Really? That just seems ****ing proof of my elitism and the stupidity of console players--neither of which I believe, thanks.

The tutorial itself was fine I agree, I liked the fact that the game didn't bludgeon the player over the head with on screen information particularly as it was in the manual.

I think some of the ideas regarding the on screen information could be improved have some merit, ie. able to access them via an ingame log, particularly as some pop up in combat and the first time I played I was focused on the game rather than the info pop ups. But, considering I read the manual I didn't have a problem. 

My point regarding tutorials was, if they, CDPR, choose to make a more explicit tutorial for the future witcher games rather than than only xbox, then it should be linked to the story line, not as Yoko commented flash backs to earlier witcher training. I don't think the game needs a better tutorial it is fine as it stands. But what I would hate to see is huge amounts of information shoe horned into the siege of LaValette castle or future prologue frankly ruining the flow of a thoroughly enjoyable chapter.

If CDPR does decide increase the tutorial (fingers crossed they won't) then I pray that it won't simply be dumped into the current La Valette castle siege, which would ruin it. Rather a small mission as I stated above might be designed so one can find their feet, then they pitch you into the castle siege without damaging the chapter's flow and linking both together, without making it feel disjointed from the rest of the storyline.

P.s sorry if I didn't make that too clear in the original post, I don't always proof read.

Modifié par billy the squid, 12 juin 2011 - 06:51 .

[slimgrin]

Just discovered the bomb to use for endragas, heh. Experiment folks, it's worth it.

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 juin 2011 - 06:21 .

[FlintlockJazz]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Exactly. It scales too little. I got surprised to see how the gargoyles behaved, lost to them twice. But even then, easy compared to prologue and chapter 1.

That's because it doesn't scale with you, put in the extra work of doing side quests and it will pay off by making you higher level and better equipped and not just end up fighting the same powered creatures.  I like the way they did, it makes you feel like you are actually playing a character who is getting more powerful and capable as he levels up, better able to slice through the grunts and yet still be challenged by the unique powerful people.  That's just my opinion view of course.

[billy the squid]

I think Quen once upgraded is a little unblanced on normal difficulty, so I don't use it much. On bigger, battles I'll still use it, but not vs a handful of enemies. On harder difficulties I don't know, has anyone else played on hard or insane and found it unbalanced?

Modifié par billy the squid, 12 juin 2011 - 06:26 .

[slimgrin]

Yeah I hardly use quen as most of the time its a crutch. I prefer bombs and traps for crowd control.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Exactly. It scales too little. I got surprised to see how the gargoyles behaved, lost to them twice. But even then, easy compared to prologue and chapter 1.

That's because it doesn't scale with you, put in the extra work of doing side quests and it will pay off by making you higher level and better equipped and not just end up fighting the same powered creatures.  I like the way they did, it makes you feel like you are actually playing a character who is getting more powerful and capable as he levels up, better able to slice through the grunts and yet still be challenged by the unique powerful people.  That's just my opinion view of course.

Oh, but I did all sidequests except the Vran armor.
To end my case, I think they need to completely rebalance the game by making the beginning easier or the end game harder. In that they should also work on skill balancing and the levels.
I'm not trying to bash the game or anything like it, I just wish it was even more enjoyable, the combat system itself is so good.

[Siven80]

While i like the game and and going through it a 2nd time, this time with the non-humans....sometimes the combat doe spissme off.

Why? The slowass animations and general lack of responsiveness in combat. Its really annoying and can easily lead to deaths and is doing my head in.

[Dragoonlordz]

Whats everyones favorite track on the soundtrack I'm curious, mine has to be track 22. Sorceresses.

@ Siven ~ I prefer the slower paced but much better thought out rmore realism approach to DA2 flashy child like approach.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 12 juin 2011 - 06:45 .

[billy the squid]

I'm still trying to find the music for this trailer, disdain and fear. It is bloody good. I found the original, but not this version.


But, back on topic I think Sorceresses is good

Modifié par billy the squid, 12 juin 2011 - 06:56 .