13812 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

zeypher wrote...

btw a question since a lot of you have done multiple playthroughs. Is upgrading igni sign worth it for a swordsman based geralt? or should i just instead upgrade my bombs. As i want an option for an ranged aoe, so should i go in the magic tree just for igni or upgrade my bombs?

Unless you upgrade your vigor and vigor regeneration, I'd go with bombs personally (and the alchemist talent to increase damage).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 23 juin 2011 - 05:35 .

[Archaven]

http://e3.gamespot.c...dex.html?page=5

skyrim catching up.. witcher is still number 1. may lose to skyrim anytime soon. 47% vs 30%. anyone betting a hyped up game has yet to be released to be the best rpg of 2011? most very likely

Modifié par Archaven, 23 juin 2011 - 05:38 .

[zeypher]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Unless you upgrade your vigor and vigor regeneration, I'd go with bombs personally (and the alchemist talent to increase damage).

thanks kop

[Vandergrift]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Personally the one thing that will always put me off about Iorveth's path is that it makes no logical sense as to why Geralt would side with him.

The guy helped kill Foltest, then he tried to kill you, three times even! ( the initial ambush, leading you into the Arachus then that ambush after the Arachus where would have killed you if not for revealing what Letho had done ). He's slaughtered thousands of people to try and kill all humans.

I am not disputing he changes his ways for Saskia...because he does, but I just can't make sense as to why would anyone help him...that he trusted you when he allowed himself to be shackled? Well he did not trust you...in fact he threatened to kill you...painfully...if you betrayed him.

To me Geralt owes Roche his life and freedom, to Iorveth he owes nothing.

I liked the path. I really did...but I just can't find a good reason as to why I would side with Iorveth in the first place.

Roche slaughtered thousands of people also, listen to Iorveth when he meats Roch at the beginning of act 1. Pacification is murdering civils, it may seem civilized word but action is not. Roche is no different in this case, and he doing it for king and law is the same as Iorveth race and freedom.

[Lord Phoebus]

I think following Iorveth's path makes more sense if you sided with Yaevin in the first game, where the Scoia'tel vs Order choice IMO came down to whether Geralt sees himself as a human that was mutated or a mutant who will be the next to be persecuted when the Order is finished with the Elves and Dwarves. In that case Geralt might see the Scoia'tel's cause as his own. I thought the whole human vs. scoia'tel conflict and Geralts position as an outsider, was presented better in the first game.

Anyway both Iorveth and Roche are muderers, if Iorveth has a higher body count it's only because he lived longer.

[Costin_Razvan]

Roche slaughtered thousands of people also, listen to Iorveth when he meats Roch at the beginning of act 1. Pacification is murdering civils, it may seem civilized word but action is not. Roche is no different in this case, and he doing it for king and law is the same as Iorveth race and freedom.

Right...because we must take what Iorveth says at face value. Provide evidence for it please, I really want to hear it.

Roche is a hunter of Scoia'Tel NOT a murderer of elves ( Iorveth doesn't make the difference but THERE IS one ). So I am sorry, but I don't buy it ( especially since your ENTIRE argument of Roche being a murderer comes from a single line delivered by a very biased elf ).

I suppose I might agree on the whole Order/Scoia'Tel thing though. But Iorveth still tried to kill you several times even in that situation....so what reason has Geralt to trust him during that fight between Scoia'Tel and Roche's men?

Knight: When I said side with Roche though I also meant giving him his weapon in that fight. To me that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I can however that agree that the choice after that fight on who you help ( Help Roche kill Lordero or help Iorveth escape ) can make sense either way

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 23 juin 2011 - 06:10 .

[Vandergrift]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Roche slaughtered thousands of people also, listen to Iorveth when he meats Roch at the beginning of act 1. Pacification is murdering civils, it may seem civilized word but action is not. Roche is no different in this case, and he doing it for king and law is the same as Iorveth race and freedom.

Right...because we must take what Iorveth says at face value. Provide evidence for it please, I really want to hear it.

Roche is a hunter of Scoia'Tel NOT a murderer of elves ( Iorveth doesn't make the difference but THERE IS one ). So I am sorry, but I don't buy it ( especially since your ENTIRE argument of Roche being a murderer comes from a single line delivered by a very biased elf ).

I suppose I might agree on the whole Order/Scoia'Tel thing though. But Iorveth still tried to kill you several times even in that situation....so what reason has Geralt to trust him during that fight between Scoia'Tel and Roche's men?

Knight: When I said side with Roche though I also meant giving him his weapon in that fight. To me that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I can however that agree that the choice after that fight on who you help ( Help Roche kill Lordero or help Iorveth escape ) can make sense either way

Murder of the dwarf also, Mahakm is dwarf country. And Iorveth's speech was in style of prising, like it was official informations that Roche should be proud, also even humans don't like special forces. Iorveth is a murderer but not liar, what he poin of lie in face of Roche about official informations when king advisor  standing beside him. Roche can do everything for Foltest and Temeria without raping Ves of course.Also in books special forces are nasty. 
And Roche can kill u too or rather Ves. Roche dont allowed me go for a beer in prologue, most important thing IMO.

Modifié par Vandergrift, 23 juin 2011 - 06:26 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Ves only kills you after you attack Roche...which is pretty stupid since Roche wants to help you..but whatever.

Oh and it's the Mahakam Foothills...not Mahakam itself. Perhaps you may have missed that tiny little bit.

Oh and because Iorveth is not a bloody liar I am supposed to believe his every word, bring proof other then one bull**** line that Iorveth says then I will believe you. Hell even bring proof that in the books the Special Forces murder civilians and I will believe you, else stfu.

Hell Rayla. The first commander of a special forces units refused to attack Murky Waters since the elves were holding chilrden as hostages...but whatever. Apparently what Ves says that she doesn't give a crap about the elven race and to her the Scoia'Tel are just bandits hiding in the woods.

Yes. The Special Forces ARE ruthless towards the Scoia'Tel ( I say Scoia'Tel ) but besides a few lines here and there I don't see them being murders towards elves/dwarves in general, though many of them may not like those races ( for good reason ).

But hey since we are supposed to take one liners as fact. How about that tiny little bit Roche says when you arrive at Loc Muine...that the elves apparently commited genocide on the Vrans.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 23 juin 2011 - 06:31 .

[Vandergrift]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Ves only kills you after you attack Roche...which is pretty stupid since Roche wants to help you..but whatever.

Oh and it's the Mahakam Foothills...not Mahakam itself. Perhaps you may have missed that tiny little bit.

Oh and because Iorveth is not a bloody liar I am supposed to believe his every word, bring proof other then one bull**** line that Iorveth says then I will believe you. Hell even bring proof that in the books the Special Forces murder civilians and I will believe you, else stfu.

Hell Rayla. The first commander of a special forces units refused to attack Murky Waters since the elves were holding chilrden as hostages...but whatever. Apparently what Ves says that she doesn't give a crap about the elven race and to her the Scoia'Tel are just bandits hiding in the woods.

Yes. The Special Forces ARE ruthless towards the Scoia'Tel ( I say Scoia'Tel ) but besides a few lines here and there I don't see them being murders towards elves/dwarves in general, though many of them may not like those races ( for good reason ).

But hey since we are supposed to take one liners as fact. How about that tiny little bit Roche says when you arrive at Loc Muine...that the elves apparently commited genocide on the Vrans.

Triss was kings advisor and don't deny that information. What was point of ling to Roche and his companions when he only wants kill them. If Roche do a pacification it was too easy to check it, so lie was pointless. Lie in this point of story do not have sense.
And I will check books but, tomorrow
.Special forces often recruit people suffered from so they too make other suffer.

And you know meaning behind word "pacification"

And human on Elves, each race killed previous inhabitants, on other planet Elvs rule and human are slaves, but that is other planet god damn it.

Modifié par Vandergrift, 23 juin 2011 - 06:37 .

[Costin_Razvan]

You keep spouting the same old thing that Iorveth wasn't lying...well I don't believe he was telling the truth and unless you bring proof all you are saying is a bunch of bull****.

Care to be more illiterate please?

And you know meaning behind word "pacification"

Finding all the Scoia'Tel and hanging them. If you expect me to care about them, then you got another thing coming.

[Vandergrift]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

You keep spouting the same old thing that Iorveth wasn't lying...well I don't believe he was telling the truth and unless you bring proof all you are saying is a bunch of bull****.

Care to be more illiterate please?

And you know meaning behind word "pacification"

Finding all the Scoia'Tel and hanging them. If you expect me to care about them, then you got another thing coming.

So just find what that realy is and how it look like to make it easy it is "pogrom" on civilians done by army to make them listen to the government. examplehttp://en.wikipedia....ccupied_Poland' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacification_operations_in_German-occupied_Poland . I am Pole so i know it was that meaning.

And Iorveth speak to Roche  not to Geralt so please what was poit of the lie.
Special forces were know for actions like this, i check books this weekend, maybe read them all again.


They cannot surrender nor go to "their" country so they keep fighting.

Modifié par Vandergrift, 23 juin 2011 - 07:02 .

[blothulfur]

One point to consider in the Roche versus Iorveth argument is that Roche is serving a king and a country and thereby even with his most ruthless actions is protecting the vast majority of Temerias inhabitants including elves and dwarves.

Iorveth has intentionally isolated himself from society and indulged in acts which terrorise the peoples of the northern kingdoms for the good of only a fraction of his own people (the squirrels) and is being used by the duplicitous sorceresses in their schemes to foist an independant (read lodge ruled) state on the all four kingdoms be it directly or indirectly.

Law and order even under a total bastard usually provides the most peaceful, wealthy and safe enviroment for the majority of peoples and thus Roche serving Foltest annd Temeria is in my eyes the more moralistic option.Plus any action that Roche undertakes cannot be blamed on him, he provides perfect service as any soldier must and is an instrument of his masters hand because the alternative is treason and death.

[Vandergrift]

blothulfur wrote...




One point to consider in the Roche versus Iorveth argument is that Roche is serving a king and a country and thereby even with his most ruthless actions is protecting the vast majority of Temerias inhabitants including elves and dwarves.

Iorveth has intentionally isolated himself from society and indulged in acts which terrorise the peoples of the northern kingdoms for the good of only a fraction of his own people (the squirrels) and is being used by the duplicitous sorceresses in their schemes to foist an independant (read lodge ruled) state on the all four kingdoms be it directly or indirectly.

Law and order even under a total bastard usually provides the most peaceful, wealthy and safe enviroment for the majority of peoples and thus Roche serving Foltest annd Temeria is in my eyes the more moralistic option.Plus any action that Roche undertakes cannot be blamed on him, he provides perfect service as any soldier must and is an instrument of his masters hand because the alternative is treason and death.

Having orders dont mean that you have not personal responsibility, many ****st had their orders.
Genocide is Genocide. Pacification looks like city after sige, but with no enemy army civils only.
Roche can leave his duty, Iorveth had no choice he can only keep fighting.
Link not working but if you copypaste it to browsed it will work.

Modifié par Vandergrift, 23 juin 2011 - 07:08 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Vandergrift: Great that you compare what Roche does for his living to what the ****s did...just ****ing great.

Do please go on, provide a quote from the books please I am eager to hear it.

Roche can leave his duty, Iorveth had no choice he can only keep fighting.

Iorveth choose his path, no one forced him to join the Scoia'Tel, no one forced him to kill civilians, burn towns and all that other stuff that he did...but he still did that.

Arguing that Iorveth is a good guy or some other crap is like arguing Bin Laden was ( is, if you buy the conspiracy theories ) a good guy who deserved a second chance. No thanks.

 Having orders dont mean that you have not personal responsibility, many ****st had their orders.
Genocide is Genocide. Pacification looks like city after sige, but with no enemy army civils only.

Did he pacify Mahakam? No. His orders were to pacify the foothils.

And you are generalizing the term based on one single bloody example.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 23 juin 2011 - 07:10 .

[blothulfur]

Cedric was once a squirrel and he put down his arms and serves a useful role in the society of Lobinden and Iorveth can live in the vast forests without ever seeing a human for a century or so 'til every human who remembers him is dead and emerge to live a free life or just go to a far off country where no one has ever heard of him.

Roche just leaving is called desertion and is punishable by death.

[Vandergrift]

@blothulfur so you say it is no way for him to retire.


Costin i cant prove it, like you said this is one line in game, but it is important line. him lie make no sense( it may sound that because native VO). HE was exited his greates foe in favorble odds.



For Temeria and for Freedom, sory i can't say what is better and ways to acomplish that was similar in cruelty.
And even humans do not liked special forces, in all north.
I try find something against speciall forces thiss weekend.

PS: It is one hell of aruging about NPC's in RPG, doesnt it?

Modifié par Vandergrift, 23 juin 2011 - 07:17 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't care that it doesn't make no sense to you for Iorveth to lie. You want to brand Roche a mass murderer based one line. That's just a load of crap and none of it is based on any sort of evidence.

Believe what you will about Roche, but since you admitted you have no proof against him then I suggest you leave it be.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 23 juin 2011 - 07:18 .

[monima]

Iorveth and Roche are both murderers. The blue stripes are ruthless killers, and rape is their idea of fun. They are not any better then the scoiatel. Roche may do what he does for king and country and all that. But as Vandergrift says his body count is only lower because he hasnt lived as long. They are as bad as each other thats the whole point. There is no right choice or "good guy

Yes Iorveth chose to be scoiatel, but his other option wasnt to live peacefully as a farmer somewhere, it would be living with humans as a second rated citizen. I cant blaim him for choosing otherwise. I think elves also become more cruel because they live so long, the experience a lot of hate. Humans grow old and die.

[Costin_Razvan]

and rape is their idea of fun

Pacification was one thing...but care to back these words?

Or are facts now fantasy opinion of one person?

[DragonRageGT]

This discussion is pointless and fruitless.

Yorveth was sentenced to death along with other elven leades and escaped. Roche is a killer of women and children just as much. Pogroms and ethnic cleansing everywhere. All situations that can be related to RL events in recent history of human kind. All events that would be and some that actually are condemned by the International Tribunal of Justice in Hague.

There is no black and white in The Witcher!

[DragonRageGT]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I don't care that it doesn't make no sense to you for Iorveth to lie. You want to brand Roche a mass murderer based one line. That's just a load of crap and none of it is based on any sort of evidence.

Believe what you will about Roche, but since you admitted you have no proof against him then I suggest you leave it be.

The proof against him is that he didn't even contest being called murderer of women and children. He knows he is one!

[HoonDing]

This just in: the only good Elf is a dead Elf.

[Dreadstruck]

virumor wrote...

This just in: the only good Elf is a dead Elf.

Field Marshall Amatus Raupeneck.

[Costin_Razvan]

The proof against him is that he didn't even contest being called murderer of women and children. He knows he is one!

Right...so if you met a mass murderer who threw BS lines at you, you would actually care to respond...right.

But do please go on. Iorveth has the WORD OF GOD!

 This just in: the only good Elf is a dead Elf.

I have to agree with that girl in Flotsman!

"Death to the Squirrels!" Geralt should give her a cookie every time she says that!

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 23 juin 2011 - 07:37 .

[monima]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

and rape is their idea of fun

Pacification was one thing...but care to back these words?

Or are facts now fantasy opinion of one person?

Nope I am pretty sure this is stated in the game,  should be able to find it.