13812 réponses à ce sujet

[android654]

Ringo12 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I can agree that the sex cards were misogynistic. But as for the rest, I don't see it in the slightest.

As a woman I don't see it either.

And you watch 30 Rock, so you must be right about some things.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I can agree that the sex cards were misogynistic. But as for the rest, I don't see it in the slightest.

They were juvenile and silly, but I guess I understand something different under the term misogyny.

It gave the impression that women in the Witcher 1 were objects of conquest, collectibles for the player, for no reason whatsoever. Thats why I see it as misogynistic from an out-game perspective.

The misogyny in-universe is fine and believable. The sex card thing is not.

[Dragoonlordz]

The cards I treated same way as collecting pokemon. Unethical or not ideal maybe due to the nature of them and how limited in context, but for me in a virtual world was slightly entertaining I admit.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The cards I treated same way as collecting pokemon. Unethical or not ideal maybe due to the nature of them and how limited in context, but for me in a virtual world was slightly entertaining I admit.

I found it hilarious once I learned to deal with it.
But it unnecessarily reduced women to mere collectibles.

Thankfully, TW2 took itself more seriously and dispensed with that BS. And yet people still apparently see it as misogynistic for some reason.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
It gave the impression that women in the Witcher 1 were objects of conquest, collectibles for the player, for no reason whatsoever. Thats why I see it as misogynistic from an out-game perspective.

The misogyny in-universe is fine and believable. The sex card thing is not.

I see what you're saying.  I can agree with that, though I took it whimsically.  I would tell the man of the house about the wenches I'd bedded.    I did draw the line a couple times, like the elven woman who offered herself in exchange for bread, and Abigail.

TW2 has a bit of this, in that women still offer themselves to Geralt as quest rewards.  For instance if you save the elven women in Flotsam, one of them says she'll sleep with Geralt once as a thank you.  You don't have to accept her offer, of course, but the fact that she made it strikes me as another instance of something that's fanservice more than story related.

[slimgrin]

After you sleep with that elf woman prostitute, she gives you a guilt trip, saying she's glad her debt was paid, or something to that effect. It definitely was not fan service in the end.

And a note about the cards. I always had the impression they were a budget alternative to cutscenes. I could be wrong. The thing is, I'd take a beautifully rendered picture over a recycled cutscene any day. Imagine Bartek Gawel painting romantic stills for each encounter, nothing vulgar, but a picture that represents that particular tryst. The whole problem with the cards is that they were made into collectibles, that was the degrading part.

Modifié par slimgrin, 24 février 2012 - 06:22 .

[Addai]

Ah, well at least they acknowledged what it was. Good.

I don't mind playing Geralt as a horndog even if he's in a relationship- I figure his mutations accelerate physical appetites as well as prowess, and a lot of women would be drawn to him :whistle:so it would not be out of my imagination that he'd take a meaningless tumble if Triss were off doing sorceress things for a long time. I can't see him taking sexual favors as payment. I suppose the rp choices should still be there, but it seems very ooc for him.

Modifié par Addai67, 24 février 2012 - 06:17 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
TW2 has a bit of this, in that women still offer themselves to Geralt as quest rewards.  For instance if you save the elven women in Flotsam, one of them says she'll sleep with Geralt once as a thank you.  You don't have to accept her offer, of course, but the fact that she made it strikes me as another instance of something that's fanservice more than story related.

I see that as I see the Succubus thing.
Yes, naturally it's fanservice and one that plagues the industry in general. But it was handled, I felt, with more tact and not wtf out of the blues (like hate sex with the elf for bread....I was like wuut? Or the fact that you can't side with the vampire without screwing her 3 daughters)

The succubus one made sense because that's what succubi do. The elf women, I remember her saying afterwards that she did this just to get out of his debt and that she wasn't that interested in him. Fanservice, but I can also see it as adding to the grittiness of the setting. That people would use sex to get rid of debts because they have nothing else to offer. It's not as blatant and disrespectful as "lol congrats you just screwed your 23rd female, here have a naked card as a reward." It felt more serious (and in a way, sad) and less ridiculous.

I can't recall any other example. Did this happen on other occasions that I can't remember? 

EDIT: ninjaed by Slim.

I don't mind Geralt being a horn dog, it's just the way it was presented in TW1. That and the sheer abundance of females he can screw. In fact I can't think of a female character that he couldnt' screw other than Carmen.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 24 février 2012 - 06:18 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I can't recall any other example. Did this happen on other occasions that I can't remember? 

That's the only one I noted.  Since I turned her down, I didn't see the result if you accepted her, which makes me feel better about the scene.  She seemed very chipper when offering it, though, not like she was doing something out of obligation.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I can't recall any other example. Did this happen on other occasions that I can't remember? 

That's the only one I noted.  Since I turned her down, I didn't see the result if you accepted her, which makes me feel better about the scene.  She seemed very chipper when offering it, though, not like she was doing something out of obligation.

She was essentially tricking him into accepting so she can get out of his debt.
I'd even say that whole sequence was kind of powerful.

[slimgrin]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I can't recall any other example. Did this happen on other occasions that I can't remember? 

That's the only one I noted.  Since I turned her down, I didn't see the result if you accepted her, which makes me feel better about the scene.  She seemed very chipper when offering it, though, not like she was doing something out of obligation.

She was essentially tricking him into accepting so she can get out of his debt.
I'd even say that whole sequence was kind of powerful.

I wish I could remember what she said, but I felt guilty afterward. I think she was repaying him the only way she knew how. 

Nobody wants guilt sex. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 24 février 2012 - 06:29 .

[Chromie]

android654 wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I can agree that the sex cards were misogynistic. But as for the rest, I don't see it in the slightest.

As a woman I don't see it either.

And you watch 30 Rock, so you must be right about some things.

Damn straight. I'll let KoP and Slim talk for me though. :happy:

[slimgrin]

I boasted I'd best Ringo in Arena and she promptly b*tch slapped back to the end of the line.

Modifié par slimgrin, 24 février 2012 - 07:13 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I'm quite amused. What kind of score did Ringo get?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 24 février 2012 - 07:25 .

[slimgrin]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I'm quite amused. What kind of score did Ringo get?

I think she was 4th or 5th at one point. But I bet I can still beat her in arm wrestling.

Modifié par slimgrin, 24 février 2012 - 07:58 .

[HoonDing]

It's amusing how much the sex cards sometimes rattled people used to the usual prefab, politically correct fantasy settings. Even Dragon Age still falls in the latter category, although BioWare at least tried.

I think CDPR with the sex cards maybe tried too hard to add a light-hearted element to an otherwise bleak and realistic fantasy world, out of fear that the public not familiar with the Witcher setting would be turned off (but CDPR were pretty self-conscious about it, though, IIRC in Vizima there's a townswoman who rebukes Geralt's "charms" quite vehemently).

After all, epic high fantasy in the vein of Tolkien, Jordan, etc. has always been more popular than the so-called dark fantasy of Glen Cook and Michael Moorcock, of which the Witcher is basically a spin-off. Geralt in the books has a lot of Conan and Elric inside him.

When fantasy in literature has only just began to make the shift to more realistic and mature settings, and mature fantasy in film had its one chance with Conan the Barbarian but failed, one can't really expect for video games to immediately make huge strides in this regard.

Modifié par virumor, 24 février 2012 - 10:07 .

[jonesy1138]

slimgrin wrote...
And a note about the cards. I always had the impression they were a budget alternative to cutscenes. I could be wrong. The thing is, I'd take a beautifully rendered picture over a recycled cutscene any day. Imagine Bartek Gawel painting romantic stills for each encounter, nothing vulgar, but a picture that represents that particular tryst. The whole problem with the cards is that they were made into collectibles, that was the degrading part.

+1. I always saw the sex cards as a tasteful substitute to an awkward cutscene (see DAO, DA2, ME2...), sort of like a hommage to nude portrait paintings, like Velazquez's Venus at her Mirror or Manet's Olympia. That said I never realized they were collectible.

[slimgrin]

I recommend console gamers stay the hell away from trailers. There's a new one at Gamespot which reveals a major player decision opportunity right at the end of the game. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 24 février 2012 - 03:50 .

[Addai]

virumor wrote...
When fantasy in literature has only just began to make the shift to more realistic and mature settings, and mature fantasy in film had its one chance with Conan the Barbarian but failed, one can't really expect for video games to immediately make huge strides in this regard.

I have some trouble calling Conan "mature."  I haven't read the books, mind you, but the image of a muscle-bound guy in a thong just doesn't say mature to me.  I guess it's because I look for historical realism.

[android654]

slimgrin wrote...

I recommend console gamers stay the hell away from trailers. There's a new one at Gamespot which reveals a major player decision opportunity right at the end of the game. 

Seriously trying. The only videos I've seen was the announcement trailer with Letho killing a king on a boat, and the demo I played. But April is a far way off.

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai67 wrote...

virumor wrote...
When fantasy in literature has only just began to make the shift to more realistic and mature settings, and mature fantasy in film had its one chance with Conan the Barbarian but failed, one can't really expect for video games to immediately make huge strides in this regard.

I have some trouble calling Conan "mature."  I haven't read the books, mind you, but the image of a muscle-bound guy in a thong just doesn't say mature to me.  I guess it's because I look for historical realism.

Uhm, a guy fighting in a thong is not really surprising, I mean seriously people fought naked in wars during ancient times.

[Addai]

That's a misnomer Costin. At least as far as the Germanic/ Celtic barbarian stereotype. Like anyone else with a brain, they wore the best armor they could afford.

[KnightofPhoenix]

slimgrin wrote...

I recommend console gamers stay the hell away from trailers. There's a new one at Gamespot which reveals a major player decision opportunity right at the end of the game. 

Great trailer though!
And I like the new details of the EE, awesome.

Oh and....Letho's voice

The Witcher 2 has a plethora of awesome trailers!

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I recommend console gamers stay the hell away from trailers. There's a new one at Gamespot which reveals a major player decision opportunity right at the end of the game. 

Great trailer though!
And I like the new details of the EE, awesome.

Oh and....Letho's voice

The Witcher 2 has a plethora of awesome trailers!

I'd claim my tribute vid is better

Addai67 wrote...

That's a misnomer Costin. At least as far as the Germanic/ Celtic barbarian stereotype. Like anyone else with a brain, they wore the best armor they could afford.

  

If I recall correctly the gauls in one period of time, would go into battle naked to shock their enemy. Ofc Rome crushed them all the same but still.

Anyway you might be interested in my tribute video for the game that I made months ago: www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 24 février 2012 - 05:37 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Tributes and trailers are different....(here, that's my diplomatic answer)...

No but your tribute is really good.