13812 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

I've said this before, what really sets CDPR apart from other devs, even Obsidian ( Let's face Alpha Protocol was awesome but it wasn't as gritty as it could have been ) is that the people writing the story have lived in a harsh country.

Many of them grew in the communist era or after that ( which believe me that for a few years, even a decade, was pretty bad ), and that is why they are able to create such worlds.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 02 mars 2012 - 06:18 .

[YohkoOhno]

I've said this before, what really sets CDPR apart from other devs, even Obsidian ( Let's face Alpha Protocol was awesome but it wasn't as gritty as it could have been ) is that the people writing the story have lived in a harsh country.

I don't believe that's the reason, the key thing is the Witcher material is dark, and they adapted it just like it is in the books.

I don't think suffering automatically makes you a better writer.

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't believe that's the reason, the key thing is the Witcher material is dark, and they adapted it just like it is in the books.

I don't think suffering automatically makes you a better writer.

The original author also lived a harsh life, almost everyone did the in the Warsaw Pact countries. I am not saying it automatically makes you a good writer, because there sure as hell is more to writing then that but it makes them understand how it is to live a ****ty life and thus able to write the way they do.

I can't even name one video game writter that reaches the level of the CDPR folks in this regard. Take Loredo for instance and you will see he is 10 times more awesome in his writing then TIM, Saren, Sovereign, Howe, Vaughn, Branka, Meredith all put together and he is a goddamn minor character where as half those I just named are major characters in their respective stories.

That is not to say some of their characters aren't weak, because they are, at least in TW1: Javed and the Professor come to mind.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 02 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[Addai]

I do think the Witcher is something a little different than the usual medieval fantasy, because of its roots in Slavic folk tales. Because of the Cold War, anything Eastern European or Russian is still somewhat exotic and not as well known as the usual Celtic and Arthurian fantasy which honestly is very, very overdone. I don't think I could sit through another retelling of the Arthur myth.

But Costin you seem to be under the impression that everyone in the US lives comfortable suburban lives. I grew up on a small dairy farm in what even my college friends called wilderness. A lot of people in my home area barely subsist, because there's no industry and very little of anything at all. We burned wood for heat- portions of our house would literally freeze in the winter- and it was wood that my father hauled out of the forest and we split on our own. A lot of what we ate, we grew or hunted ourselves. I know I'm not alone in having that kind of upbringing. So I can relate very well to the eastern folktales of deep forests where monsters seem natural to the landscape.

[YohkoOhno]

If you needed to live a harsh life to write a better story, George R.R. Martin would never have been able to write A Song of Ice and Fire.

If the video game writing is better, I think it has more to do with CDPR not having to deal with a lot of the corporate-level concerns most of the major studios have. They are a large company but they I suspect they have more artistic freedom when working on their RPGs than, say, many other companies like EA, Activision and Ubisoft.

(Personally, I'm getting done with "dark fantasy", as I think it's becoming overused.)

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 02 mars 2012 - 06:44 .

[Costin_Razvan]

You think the son of a dock worker didn't have a harsh life? I'd imagine he did.

But Costin you seem to be under the impression that everyone in the US lives comfortable suburban lives.

No I am not, but see here's the thing when you compare the US to an eastern European country when said country was in the communist era: almost everyone and I repeat everyone ( except the few elites ) lived a ****ty life. The things you described? Well most Romanian peasants have it like that or worse nowadays. No money, no heat during winter except using wood, no running water most of the time, no toilets etc.

In the communist era a lot of people live a hell lot worse then what you describe, that is without counting the lack of freedom of speech and the secret police. I personally grew up in the capital, where btw life was and is better then almost everywhere else. I remember freezing in winter, going months on end without running water, days and even weeks without electricity. Eating soup which had just bread in it because our dear governement was starving us.

My point is that it's a general thing for people here that they lived a harsh life, whereas in the US it's a certain percentage.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 02 mars 2012 - 06:56 .

[slimgrin]

The term dark fantasy is so vague as to almost be meaningless. And if anything has been overused it's high fantasy, to the point where I can barely stand fantasy at all if it isn't rooted in reality. That's what The Witcher does, just as Adam Badowski said in the interview I quoted. The Witcher takes it's material from the present era, the age we all live in, then it places it in a genuine medieval setting. No wizards in pointy hats, no Sauron, no talking trees, and it's the better for it.

And Costin, been poor my whole whole life, despite a college education, I earned and pay for everything I own. Don't have it as hard as the Eastern block, but my life has been anything but easy.

Modifié par slimgrin, 02 mars 2012 - 07:00 .

[Addai]

Well George Martin's father was a longshoreman, so he's definitely working class. There could be something to it. If you have little mass entertainment, you feed on the stories you can get your hands on. Martin talks about going to the drugstore to buy "penny dreadfuls." One of my other favorite writers, Louis L'Amour, worked as a wrangler and a sailor in the Pacific and various other rough and tumble jobs, and he also read lots of pulp fiction and penny novels. Life experience does help give depth to writing, even if it's not the only thing.

I do think CDPR has some freedom because they haven't marketed mainly to a mainstream western audience, who can be very squeamish and politically correct. Skyrim could have been a lot darker, for instance, but played it safe in many of its story lines. I hope CDPR never caves in to that sort of pressure because we don't need more mealy-mouthed, half censored games.

[Addai]

slimgrin wrote...
The Witcher takes it's material from the present era, the age we all live in, then it places it in a genuine medieval setting. No wizards in pointy hats, no Sauron, no talking trees, and it's the better for it.

What material from the present era?

[slimgrin]

Addai67 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
The Witcher takes it's material from the present era, the age we all live in, then it places it in a genuine medieval setting. No wizards in pointy hats, no Sauron, no talking trees, and it's the better for it.

What material from the present era?

" the corrupt men we see in the Witcher’s world are no different from people spoiled by power around us. A mature player will know this. This is why you get immersed so easily in the game world; you know that this fantasy setting is full of real world emotions and characters. The dilemmas bring consequences, which are similar to the ones in the world around you – no matter what you do you have to face them."

Modifié par slimgrin, 02 mars 2012 - 07:01 .

[Addai]

Oh, I guess I get twitchy when people talk about using modern-day material because that often is disastrously cliche'. Take the game that shall not be named and its appropriation of the "war on terror."

I would more talk about the human and universal. The conflicts and themes in the Witcher seem very medieval to me. You can still relate to them because of the human element.

[KnightofPhoenix]

There are a lot of human problems that transcend time and space, so in that sense The Witcher deals with issues that we also experience in the modern world as the medieval era did.

[Chromie]

Omg speak of the devil! Addai Vampire the Masquerade is on sale right now. Just incase you decide to actually buy here is a link to the store but more importantly how to get the game running in Windows 7 with very little to no problems. Gotta love the community for patching hits.

Vampire the Masquerade:Bloodlines

http://forums.steamp...d.php?t=2025035 

Modifié par Ringo12, 03 mars 2012 - 12:43 .

[slimgrin]

Is it just me, or is the RED Engine ten time more glorious when depicting dark/rainy environments?

[Addai]

Ringo12 wrote...

Omg speak of the devil! Addai Vampire the Masquerade is on sale right now. Just incase you decide to actually buy here is a link to the store but more importantly how to get the game running in Windows 7 with very little to no problems. Gotta love the community for patching hits.

Vampire the Masquerade:Bloodlines

http://forums.steamp...d.php?t=2025035 

LOL Are you working on commission?  I did get it.  What's 5 bucks.  *shakes fist at Steam*

Dunno when I'll be able to play it.  Probably the week it goes on sale for 1.99.

[Addai]

slimgrin wrote...

Is it just me, or is the RED Engine ten time more glorious when depicting dark/rainy environments?

I miss seeing people dash for cover when it rains.  That was always one of the little realisms of Witcher 1.  I guess peasants probably don't mind rain.

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...
edit- Wow, I just saw on the Witcher board that Letho's VA played Shagga in Game of Thrones season 1.  Didn't realize that.  I like him even more now. 

Really!? Hahaha, thats awesome. I'm going to have to rewatch those episodes.

Addai67 wrote...
I've heard of World of Darkness, used to do MUSH rpg and people would talk  about it.  Generally I don't like vampire stuff so it just never  interested me.  But I'll keep it in mind.  We do play on PC and I've got a Steam and GOG.com queue that's already getting deep with games I'm  meaning to play someday.

Vampire stuff usually doesn't interest me either, but I recently started playing Bloodlines for the first time and its very very good. The writing is top notch and really makes for a great game- the dialogue system with the silent protagonist there is great too.

Modifié par Brockololly, 03 mars 2012 - 01:45 .

[slimgrin]

Addai67 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Is it just me, or is the RED Engine ten time more glorious when depicting dark/rainy environments?

I miss seeing people dash for cover when it rains.  That was always one of the little realisms of Witcher 1.  I guess peasants probably don't mind rain.

They do in Flotsam, hanging out under eaves and such when it rains. The soldiers in Henselt's camp don't seem to mind though. The way wet surfaces glint is so beautiful. The best depiciton of rain I think I've seen in a game.

I just had the most glorious conversation with Zyvick, something I missed in my first run. He describes the great battle in colorful language and his voce actor is so damn good. He also leaves something with you if you chat with him, but I don't want to spoil things.

Modifié par slimgrin, 03 mars 2012 - 01:58 .

[Addai]

That VA is Teagan, right?

[slimgrin]

Addai67 wrote...

That VA is Teagan, right?

I really don't know. 

[HoonDing]

slimgrin wrote...
"What the people who know the books tell us is that we stay close to the original. And on the other side the modern RPG market lacked a title like this. They were rated M for Mature, but really they had nothing as harsh as the real world can be. The Witcher isn’t artificial in its violence, language and sex themes. It’s realistic – the corrupt men we see in the Witcher’s world are no different from people spoiled by power around us. A mature player will know this. This is why you get immersed so easily in the game world; you know that this fantasy setting is full of real world emotions and characters. The dilemmas bring consequences, which are similar to the ones in the world around you – no matter what you do you have to face them."

I don't think the Witcher is particularly harsh as the real world, it just handles its mature themes in less charicatural and childish ways than, say, Dragon Age. The Witcher setting also feels much less generic and assembled than Dragon Age does.

Still, the way non-humans are handled in both the Witcher and Dragon Age, they are basically the replacement of groups that were persecuted in the real world, like the Jewish... but pointy eared, or stocky and with beards. It's almost like developers are afraid of handling real-world issues directly in games. It feels like a cop-out.

In the Witcher/Dragon Age setting humans came to a world where dwarves and Elves were dominant, and conquered the world, wresting away dominance... if humans were wholly as they are in the real world, every non-human man, woman and child would've been hunted down to the last and killed. Humanity always wants to destroy that what it can't understand.

Modifié par virumor, 03 mars 2012 - 04:18 .

[blothulfur]

Spoilers!

It's in the middle of happening actually Virumor, most of the young elves were slaughtered en masse by Marshall Raupenneck and what is left are sterile old elders and idealistic terrorists being used in the schemes of ambitious human potentates. Unlike Dragon Age where the elves seem to be a viable race, they are quickly going the way of the dodo in the witchers world. There is no hope for their species and a fair few acknowledge this, for instance Iorveth tries to delay the inevitable through the creation of the free Pontar state while Yaevinn embraces nihilism and a last suicidal strike against the enemy.

It's not been that long since humans got there, and they were in the minority for a long time, so much so that the elves thought of exterminating them. Incidentally that has happened on another world in the witcher universe, where the elves enslaved and slaughtered the native humans, they then commenced the raiding of other realities only to be foiled by outside forces.

[Addai]

It doesn't seem like a cop out to me, because I presume the goal is to tell stories, not to depict historical reality or raise consciousness or such blather. That's why I hate direct allegories. They're about preaching an authorial point of view rather than about storytelling. I've contemplated writing historical fiction, and one reason I haven't is because there's an expectation that you are "photo realistic" which would hinder a story IMO. If it's fantasy, even historical fantasy, then you can get away with putting the story first. And I think that works much, much better.

[slimgrin]

Just battled Ves, and then...<3

I mostly love the way CDPR handled this but the main romances should have unique cut scenes distancing them from all the wh*re mongering. The exchange with her is great. Should have been more of it.

Modifié par slimgrin, 04 mars 2012 - 01:21 .

[Addai]

I also gave Ves a roll on this game, since I'm playing Geralt as less enamored of Triss.

I know you're supposed to hate Dethmold, but his is probably my favorite voice acting. The VA does such a great job at smarmy scumbag.

Almost to the attack on Vergen.