13812 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

Fair enough then. I don't particulary trust the journal, since you know Dandelion, but the dwarf and Saskia. Alright I'll buy it.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 mars 2012 - 02:18 .

[slimgrin]

Actually that's a good point K.O.P. Zyvik is instrumental in helping to flesh out Henselt's character. But the 'squeaky hinge' comment erased all of that and made my blood boil, lol.

Modifié par slimgrin, 29 mars 2012 - 02:20 .

[Costin_Razvan]

The moment he made that comment I was like "ugh...really?"

Seriously when I was playing Act 2 I was like, hmm I like this guy.

Then he kills the Blue Stripes and forcibly screws Ves, and I'm like: So you want me to kill him CDPR?

Then he makes that comment about Ves in Vergen and I'm like "You REALLY want me to kill him CDPR?" To me it kinda felt pathetic that they did that. Not saying it doesn't make sense but really that was the best CDPR could make as a justification for killing him? Why not just kill Ves whom Geralt could romance and thus care about. Enough reason without going into villain territoriy.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 mars 2012 - 02:26 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

slimgrin wrote...

Actually that's a good point K.O.P. Zyvik is instrumental in helping to flesh out Henselt's character. But the 'squeaky hinge' comment erased all of that and made my blood boil, lol.

That's why I really like Zyvik, he shows us another side to Henselt and Kaedwen in general, who most people would probably automatically see as villanous (especially when comapred to Saskia).

I would say that I would have liked us to see Henselt's "good" side more in the game, but after his curse and the death of his son, it is natural for him to become more reclusive. And from my perspective, we do see some of his better side in the game.

How he reacted to Sabrina's act in the mist and how he shows respect to Aedirnian soldiers (says something that war is for the honorable until mages are involved, then it becomes hell). How he told Dethmold to stfu when he's saying that Aedirn is weak. How he tells Geralt that he likes being challenged and that he hates being surrounded by sycophants. How he leads his men at the front and can bravely duel Saskia.

As for his sadism, well my favorite monarch, Radovid, didn't earn the moniker of "The Stern" for nothing.

[Costin_Razvan]

He can also tell Dethmold to STFU when they meet Saskia, it's amusing really.

I know Henselt can act like an ass to her, but that's player choice ultimately and you can actually show real respect for her in the conversation and then duel her. It's interesting because Saskia for all her might losses to what people refer to as the "pig".

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Then he makes that comment about Ves in Vergen and I'm like "You REALLY want me to kill him CDPR?" To me it kinda felt pathetic that they did that. Not saying it doesn't make sense but really that was the best CDPR could make as a justification for killing him? Why not just kill Ves whom Geralt could romance and thus care about. Enough reason without going into villain territoriy.

I think CDPR was taunting us to kill him and I do think this will backfire on those who do it (kind of already did).

Personally, I didn't see it that villainous, because they succeeded pretty well in establishing their setting that you'd know that what Henselt did was pretty much considered to be the norm back then.
Had they badly done the setting that only Henselt stands out as being scum, then yea that would be villainous.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 29 mars 2012 - 02:31 .

[slimgrin]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

As for his sadism, well my favorite monarch, Radovid, didn't earn the moniker of "The Stern" for nothing.

I heard he's into spooning. Just ask Phillipa.

( ok that was sick but I couldn't help it )

[Costin_Razvan]

I think CDPR was taunting us to kill him and I do think this will backfire on those who do it (kind of already did).

I really hope they don't.

I am not a fan of "Redania is the best country evah and it doesn't get screwed in any way" because it represents Poland in the Witcher world. I do like Radovid but you have to be a blind idiot to not see why they did this. I trust CDPR a hell lot ****ing more then Bioware, but doesn't mean I don't feel vastly irritated at some stuff they do.

Though how did it kinda backfire on those that spared him?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 mars 2012 - 02:35 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I think CDPR was taunting us to kill him and I do think this will backfire on those who do it (kind of already did).

I really hope they don't.

I am not a fan of "Redania is the best country evah and it doesn't get screwed in any way" because it represents Poland in the Witcher world. I trust CDPR a hell lot ****ing more then Bioware, but doesn't mean I don't feel vastly irritated at some stuff they do.

Though how did it kinda backfire on those that spared him?

Meh, don't really care about that part. And I don't think they will make Redania single handedly defeat Nilfgaard.

And I meant it will backfire on those who do kill him.

[Costin_Razvan]

Ah, yes.

Well I do hope Redania can be ****ed in TW3, and I also hope that stopping the invasion, if Geralt actually wants that, won't come down to simply killing Emhyr. I would despite it if did.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 mars 2012 - 02:40 .

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes Loredo is pretty smart and competent.

He is also a corrupt addicted drug dealer who only cares about himself. Henselt cares about his kingdom, his people and his men. In fact he shows respect to his enemies and even shows sadness at them being massacred by Sabrina. He has martial pride, likes it when people challenge him (see his convo with Geralt) and does not underestimate his foes. He leads his men at the front.

Henselt is a bastard but he is not Loredo. No man like Loredo can engender the same kind of loyalty that men like Zyvik show.

Well I remind you his men aren't that loyal, and I don't read his treatment of Sabrina as being moved to compassion for his men.  He's pissed that an uppity witch crossed him and made him look bad to the other kings.

And I never said I liked Radovid, either.

It's just how I read the characters.  All the kings are given some major flaws that bite them in the tail.  Henselt's an egomaniac and sadist, Foltest was a lecher, Radovid is power hungry and has mama issues, Demavend was weak.

[Costin_Razvan]

How do you feel about Phillipa and Sile though Addai? To me Phillipa is scary, powerful and a strong character all around. Sile is kinda a weaker version of her, but still a good character.

I do like killing Sile though. There's no country ****ed up if I do and she makes it personal with her little rant "THIS IS YOUR END, Witcher."

My reaction to that is always "And this is yours, ****."

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

How do you feel about Phillipa and Sile though Addai?

I think we had this conversation?  I don't particularly like either of them, but I don't kill Sile and I was going to get Philippa out of prison until I decided it might doom Triss.

[Costin_Razvan]

That was on what choices were made during that Act in regards to them, but I don't think we talked about them as characters.

It is disappointing to me that Triss doesn't die if you save Anais, free Saskia from curse. Would make the choice more interesting to me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Well I remind you his men aren't that loyal, and I don't read his treatment of Sabrina as being moved to compassion for his men.  He's pissed that an uppity witch crossed him and made him look bad to the other kings.

And I will remind you that those who actively conspired against him were a minority that were destroyed relatively easily. And that the men who left him left with their commanding nobles, which is more the fault of the irrationality of the system than Henselt himself. And he still had enough men to be able to take Vergen.

And that's not how I read his reaction. His prestige is definitely a part of it, but in that scene and in a convo with him, he definitely shows respect to soldiers (not compassion) that he does not want them to die in such a dishonorable fashion.

It's just how I read the characters.  All the kings are given some major flaws that bite them in the tail.  Henselt's an egomaniac and sadist, Foltest was a lecher, Radovid is power hungry and has mama issues, Demavend was weak.

I know it's off-topic and a cheap shot, but I will say it anyways.

All of them ****** on Maric
Both as characters and as kings.

[Addai]

Of all the kings I suppose I liked Foltest the most, he seemed to actually have a heart in his chest and I don't see his sins as that great even though they also cost a lot of lives in the end.

[slimgrin]

Foltest screwed his sister and I hate that. I mean, it seems so few are bothered by that little fact.

Triss better not die. I'll cry like a little baby if she does. And Phillipa is on my short list of characters not to ever f*ck with.

Modifié par slimgrin, 29 mars 2012 - 02:57 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
It is disappointing to me that Triss doesn't die if you save Anais, free Saskia from curse. Would make the choice more interesting to me.

It didn't, because I am looking forward to the love triangle with Yennefer.

Also, it led to good characterization on the part of Letho.

[Costin_Razvan]

I've never been intimidated by any video game character the way I was by Phillipa Eilheart.

It didn't, because I am looking forward to the love triangle with Yennefer.
Also, it led to good characterization on the part of Letho.  

True it did, but I don't personally care that much for Triss, and you know exactly why.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 mars 2012 - 02:58 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Philippa Eilhart: "Please leave the thinking to me, Mister Zigrin. And I'd gladly hear less from you from now on."

You know someone is a badass when they tell dwarves to stfu in the middle of their city.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 29 mars 2012 - 03:22 .

[Seboist]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

That was on what choices were made during that Act in regards to them, but I don't think we talked about them as characters.

It is disappointing to me that Triss doesn't die if you save Anais, free Saskia from curse. Would make the choice more interesting to me.

Nothing bad happening to Triss if you don't save her is my biggest gripe with the choices in W2. It cheapens both the choices to save her or not because she ends up rescued and (relatively) unharmed regardless.

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Philippa Eilhart: "Please leaving the thinking to me, Mister Zigrin. And I'd gladly hear less from you from now on."

You know someone is a badass when they tell dwarves to stfu in the middle of their city.

I collapsed laughing while reading that.

Slimgrin: I personally find it very hard to fault Foltest for banging his sister after my Geralt spent the entire game screwing thirty or so women. Including a Dryad, several elves, the Lady of the Lake and three vampires at the same bloody time.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 mars 2012 - 03:12 .

[slimgrin]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Philippa Eilhart: "Please leaving the thinking to me, Mister Zigrin. And I'd gladly hear less from you from now on."

You know someone is a badass when they tell dwarves to stfu in the middle of their city.

I collapsed laughing while reading that.

Phillipa tribute. Pretty good. Spoilers of course.

Modifié par slimgrin, 29 mars 2012 - 03:17 .

[Addai]

slimgrin wrote...

Foltest screwed his sister and I hate that. I mean, it seems so few are bothered by that little fact.

Incest was kind of a thing with medieval nobility, though, too.  If they weren't actually doing it, they were writing stories about how people did it and got cursed by God for it.  There's no indication that he forced her, is there?  Like I said, he's a lecher, but I don't see sins of the flesh as being as bad as cruelty or greed.

I mean, Henselt's pattern is also shown in his response to the Blue Stripes.  Of course they were spies- he must have suspected that all along.  He didn't have to hang all of them.  You can execute the leaders as an example and boot the little guys back to Temeria or keep them prisoner to try to extract ransom or concessions.  Shoot, cut off their hands or cut out their tongues and send them home as an example- this was seen as an act of mercy in the middle ages.  Whoever ends up the next monarch of Temeria isn't going to take the massacre kindly.

Modifié par Addai67, 29 mars 2012 - 03:21 .

[Costin_Razvan]

There's no indication that he forced her, is there?

No, they were actually very much in love. She died giving birth to Ada.

 Whoever ends up the next monarch of Temeria isn't going to take that kindly.

Assuming Temeria will ever have a monarch in the future, we know that by that point both Henselt and Radovid were planning to divide Temeria. ( There's the messanger after all ). He could just as well want to get rid of the Blue Stripes now to deal with a real threat to his plans. ( even if they are few, they could be stil be a major nuissance ).

Edit: Sapkowski was very much in favor of every character being grey, as in having good and bad qualities. Just something I wanted to point out.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 mars 2012 - 03:26 .