13812 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

When the vast majority of elves I see in the games are either terrorists or peasants ( Seheron and Morril are like that ) I sure as **** am not going to say their race is worth anything but dung ****, because it is. That there are a few exceptions is irrelevant to me ( Like Francesca ). They don't even know how to farm in the books! They don't even want to learn. Well screw them.

Hell even the Dalish are worth more then the Elves of the Witcher World. They have storytellers, craftsmen, mages and traders. Oh and that's not even touching the subject that the the elves took everything they knew from the Vrans.

The Wild Hunt is different, but that's another world.

The Dwarves and Humans have craftsman, traders, inkeepers, bookeepers etc. The Elves have ****.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2012 - 03:57 .

[Nordicus]

Seboist wrote...

Triss is... okay. She's among my least liked of the major female characters tbh.

I'm not a fan of how Witcher 2 makes her seem like an "underdog who wants to prove herself" constantly.

She's not bad though, the change from TW1 is simply very noticeable. She pulled a reverse-Liara

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

When the vast majority of elves I see in the games are either terrorists or peasants ( Seheron and Morril are like that ) I sure as **** am not going to say their race is worth anything but dung ****, because it is. That there are a few exceptions is irrelevant to me.

The Dwarves and Humans have craftsman, traders, inkeepers, bookeepers etc. The Elves have ****.

I was going to compare you to Yaevinn. But now you're sounding like Loredo. That kind of thinking for me is just pathetic.

When elves have a chance to be useful, they would become useful. The fact they are not as adaptable as the dwarves, which is certainly a flaw, does not make them "dung ****." The North is equally to blame for being primitive and wasteful.

[Costin_Razvan]

The dwarves had just as much chance to be useful as the elves did when they were conquered. The dwarves managed to adapt and live and have a purpose in the world dominated by humans, the elves did not nothing and even stubbornly refused and still refuse to change their thinking.

You know what the Scoia'Tel under Iorveth say? "I do not trust this woman but I trust Iorveth." They do not care for Saskia's cause and Iorveth mostly does it because he is in love. 

Hell the Dryads do more then the Elves could ever hope to achieve.

I don't care to who you compare me to. I am not obligated to care for the elves one bit, and I see no reason to do anything but laugh at their entire race. Even the gypsises in the my country are more productive then the elves are in the Witcher world.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2012 - 04:17 .

[slimgrin]

Nordicus wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Triss is... okay. She's among my least liked of the major female characters tbh.

I'm not a fan of how Witcher 2 makes her seem like an "underdog who wants to prove herself" constantly.

How are they doing this? She's constantly helping Geralt. In both games she's a mentor and a freind, not an underdog..

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The dwarves had just as much chance to be useful as the elves did when they were conquered. The dwarves managed to adapt and live and have a purpose in the world dominated by humans, the elves did not nothing. Hell the Dryads do more then the Elves could ever hope to achieve.

When the elves have low fertility coupled with long lives, watching as their race dies and their cities taken by humans on which they build their own cities (and yes I know they did the same), then I would imagine that they would not be as adapdable as the dwarves who still have their own autonomous state (and don't tell me the elves have Valley of Flowers. A puppet state controlled by the power who betrayed them, where old elves live).

But elves do live in human cities. We saw them in Vizima, in Flotsam, in Lobinden. In Vergen as well (not Scoia'Tael). We saw a human - elf couple performers. If you honestly think that they do nothing or that they are not the majority of elves, then you are delusional. And to paint a wide brush on an entire people ends up sounding idiotic.

EDIT: and to think that Iorveth is doing all this because he is in love is laughable. He realizes he is losing and knows this is the wisest course of action.

And yea humans say they want to kick dwarves out of their own city. **** humans then?

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 avril 2012 - 04:07 .

[Costin_Razvan]

If you honestly think that they do nothing or that they are not the majority of elves, then you are delusional

Point examples. We have one elven mage. one elven craftsmen and then what exactly? A circus couple? Yeah that's a convincing argument. Unless the game tells me or shows me they are doing anything then they are worthless.

 
And yea humans say they want to kick dwarves out of their own city. **** humans then?  

So you have some idiotic humans and some smart ones as well that are not just warriors. The elves have nothing but terrorist warriros and worthless peasants. They don't know how to farm and they don't want to learn, they don't want to live with other races in harmony hell they even conquered the Dwarves, and comitted genocide on the Vrans. I find them nothing more then a pathetic bunch in the games who can't get past the fact humans conquered them and don't want to do ANYTHING for the future of their race. 

As for Iorveth, yeah he wants people to just ignore the crimes he has comitted and settle down. Even Saskia doesn't think that will happen.

Say what you will about humans, but they didn't massacre an entire race. They set up kingdoms, law and order, trade, craftsmen, several mage schools.

EDIT: This is not me talking about the Wild Hunts, those are a very different bunch of elves.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2012 - 04:18 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Point examples. We have one elven mage. one elven craftsmen and then what exactly? A circus couple? Yeah that's a convincing argument. Unless the game tells me or shows me they are doing anything then they are worthless.

The elves living in Vizima, you think they were just waiting there for a chance to kill without doing anything in their lives? Flotsam. What do you think the elves there are doing, imagining ways to kill humans as they beg for food?
The elves in Vergen. What do you think they do?
Yes a cricus couple, entertainment is doing something and they are also merchants and here you have an elf who is married to a human (that she didn't kill). 

Sure the game should have more elven NPCs that we can interact with.
But if you need the game to spoon feed you to show you the obvious, that an entire race is not worthless and can only kill, then wow.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Say what you will about humans, but they didn't massacre an entire race. They set up kingdoms, law and order, trade, craftsmen, several mage schools.

Yes because the elven civilization certainly had no law, order and trade. They just killed to pass time.

Most free elves live in freakin mountains, good luck being a farmer there.

[Costin_Razvan]

But if you need the game to spoon feed you to show you the obvious, that an entire race is not worthless and can only kill, then wow.

Peasants and Terrorists, peasants that aren't shown as doing anything. So no I find their race entirely pathetic. There is no journal entry to point to them being anything else then that, no dialogue, and nothing to show us otherwise.

So tell me exactly why should I find the elves worth anything? Give me one damned good reason.

 
Most free elves live in freakin mountains, good luck being a farmer there.  

Farming can also relate to raising livestock. Nothing to stop the elves from raising sheep in the mountains, but they don't even do that. Hell if I recall they don't even HUNT, they just steal food.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2012 - 04:26 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
So tell me exactly why should I find the elves worth anything? Give me one damned good reason.

To avoid sounding irrational, for one.

I just gave you examples. If you need to be told that these elves were doing something in their lives and not just standing there killing (and you can't be a peasant in a city), then the problem is with you.

EDIT: from what I know, the elves in the mountains are mostly Scoia'Tael who spent their lives fighting and don't know anything else. They are stupid. They are not the majority of elves.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 avril 2012 - 04:27 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Yeah, and the elves are perfectly rational in the games. Right.

[Sebby]

Where's this circus couple located?

[Costin_Razvan]

The amphitheater. There's a female elf with a beard.

 
EDIT: from what I know, the elves in the mountains are mostly Scoia'Tael who spent their lives fighting and don't know anything else. They are stupid. They are not the majority of elves.  

Geralt met those elves before the war with Nilfgaard began. It's in the Last Wish when Dandelion and Geralt travelled to the Valley of Flowers.

One of the elves they met is now a prominent figure on Dol Blathana.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2012 - 04:30 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Yeah, and the elves are perfectly rational in the games. Right.

So let's be as irrational as them? Your logic is as messed up as Yaevinn's.

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Yeah, and the elves are perfectly rational in the games. Right.

So let's be as irrational as them? Your logic is as messed up as Yaevinn's.

The Elves we meet in the cities are just as worthless as the City Elves, perhaps more so since the City Elves at least have that one trader in DA:O and sveral more in DA2. There are other merchants as well if I remember from DA:O.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2012 - 04:32 .

[Qjuad]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Yeah, and the elves are perfectly rational in the games. Right.

When you've been the victims of cultural genocide for who knows how long, hounded at every turn, denied rights, mistreated and had your access to government and just basic jobs severaly restricted by anti-non human racism (how many human farm owners would even bother to hire an elf? really?) you might find it difficult to play nice

And how does the extermination of the Vran at the hands of the ancient elves have anything to do with the current generation?

Modifié par Qjuad, 27 avril 2012 - 04:35 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Qjuad: The Dwarves had it just as bad as the elves did and they achieved something and are doing something. Not even talking of Mahakam here. You know that Dwarf craftsman in the Outskirts, then Vivaldi, then the other dwarves you meet? Hell the Scoia'Tel have a Dwarven Quartermaster themselves. I can even say they had it worse since they had been conquered by the Elves before. That is why I don't buy that excuse.

The Vrans are important since the Elves took Loc Muinne from them for instance, and probably other cities as well.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2012 - 04:35 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Geralt met those elves before the war with Nilfgaard began. It's in the Last Wish when Dandelion and Geralt travelled to the Valley of Flowers.

One of the elves they met is now a prominent figure on Dol Blathana.

I don't know how the elven civilization produced food, but it is entirely possible that they were never farmers or hunters. Just gatherers (how can you build an empire off of that?).

I don't know Elven biology and their nutrional needs and habits. But what is seemingly clear is that a lot of them failed to adapt (while the dwarves, I wager, always had the same habits). Since they were perfectly well off befoe the humans arrived, it seems likely that human farming and methods disrupted their own means of living. 

But that's not the majority of elves who live amongst humans.

[Costin_Razvan]

Then Knight. tell me exactly what do the majority of elves who live among humans do? Most of those that live in Vizima in TW1 are in the ghetto, well they are forced but still I don't see them doing anything.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2012 - 04:37 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
The Elves we meet in the cities are just as worthless as the City Elves, perhaps more so since the City Elves at least have that one trader in DA:O and sveral more in DA2. There are other merchants as well if I remember from DA:O.

Sigh. Yes normal living people who are working for a living are worthless. That's like, 99% of humans.

The fact that they are less useful than dwarves, a premise I agree with, does not make them worthless.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 27 avril 2012 - 04:39 .

[Nordicus]

slimgrin wrote...

How are they doing this? She's constantly helping Geralt. In both games she's a mentor and a freind, not an underdog..

I'm talking about TW2 specifically, and she hardly helps constantly, or even usually since she's kidnapped in the first damn Act and not seen again until a point in Act 3 determined by the player.

The biggest compliment Triss gets from other sorcerers is "full of potential" but they generally consider her weak and naïve, they talk down to her, do not involve her in the Lodge's plans, the politicians of Temeria quite frankly ignore her, at least 2 of the times she casts spells end up as "heroic sacrifices" or miscalculations, and she's motivated by love

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Then Knight. tell me exactly what do the majority of elves who live among humans do?

Work. What do 99% of humans do?
Work for shops, work with blacksmiths, trade with food or items, craft, domestic workers...etc

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...
The Elves we meet in the cities are just as worthless as the City Elves, perhaps more so since the City Elves at least have that one trader in DA:O and sveral more in DA2. There are other merchants as well if I remember from DA:O.

Sigh. Yes normal living people who are working for a living are worthless. That's like, 99% percent of humans.

The fact that they are less useful than dwarves, a premise I agree with, does not make them worthless.

Again, what do the elves ever do in the games to make them in any way worth something? Sure we see some of their past glory, but right now?

Hell Iorveth tells us the Valley of Flowers is a massive failure.

 
Work for shops, work with blacksmiths, trade with food or items, craft, domestic workers...etc  

Again this is something we are never shown or told by well anyone. Hell I wouldn't even go so far as to say the Scoia'Tel are a lot more useful then they are: Cedric, Iorveth, The Craftsman etc.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 27 avril 2012 - 04:40 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Hell Iorveth tells us the Valley of Flowers is a massive failure.

Of course it's a massive failure, only old senile elves live there.