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[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
The Dwarves and Humans have craftsman, traders, inkeepers, bookeepers etc. The Elves have ****.

The elves have just as many traders and craftsmen as the dwarves.  You can get Raven's armor from an elf craftsman, for instance, and Cedric is a trader and craftsman.  I can't believe you're serious that because a race has been reduced to poverty and killed off in great numbers that that means they are worthless.  It is also Witcher lore that the Elder Blood contains power.  You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

[Leinadi]

Triss is more capable in a lot of ways certainly. But fact of the matter is that they offered you a choice in the first game which they then largely (completely?) ignored in the second game. Plus, you have guys like Dandelion (not too capable) showing up, so... If they really had wanted to write Shani in, they could have done so. A large part of Witcher 2 is about the war, a talented medic like Shani could've certainly had a place there.

If you have great aspirations to write the "epic story" about these characters, don't offer such choices in the first place if you're gonna ignore them later on. Simple as that.

Again, I don't particularly care about either Shani or Triss as characters. But yep... if you offer a choice like that, make good on it. Or at least write up some excuse on why things turned out as they did.

[Sebby]

There's a similar imbalance with Siegfried vs Yaevinn when it comes to TW2 as well. The former gets to actually show up and has a tangible impact on one particular quest while the latter you only get to discuss with Iorveth about briefly. Yaevinn doesn't even get a journal entry like Shani did in EE.

[Nerevar-as]

Addai67 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...
The Dwarves and Humans have craftsman, traders, inkeepers, bookeepers etc. The Elves have ****.

The elves have just as many traders and craftsmen as the dwarves.  You can get Raven's armor from an elf craftsman, for instance, and Cedric is a trader and craftsman.  I can't believe you're serious that because a race has been reduced to poverty and killed off in great numbers that that means they are worthless.  It is also Witcher lore that the Elder Blood contains power.  You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

Considering what ultimately happens  to the elves, and that CDP seems to be following the plots Sapkowki wrote about the world after the saga ends (i.e., the Lodge in trouble and Radovid starting to get the name he´ll go down in history), I find this discussion about the merits and worthiness of the elves a bit weird.

Personally, I don´t see them that different from humans, it´s just they are on the receiving side. When the situation is reversed they aren´t any better than humans. They think of others as parasites unworthy of living and/or fit only for serving them. Sounds familiar?

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 27 avril 2012 - 10:32 .

[Sebby]

Elves are just humans with pointy ears and slender physiques to me.

[Addai]

Nerevar-as wrote...
Personally, I don´t see them that different from humans, it´s just they are on the receiving side. When the situation is reversed they aren´t any better than humans. They think of others as parasites unworthy of living and/or fit only for serving them. Sounds familiar?

That's neither here nor there.  All sentient beings tend to be self-serving.  I don't think they are any better than humans, just that they are as deserving of respect as anyone.

[Addai]

Leinadi wrote...
If you have great aspirations to write the "epic story" about these characters, don't offer such choices in the first place if you're gonna ignore them later on. Simple as that.

Again, I don't particularly care about either Shani or Triss as characters. But yep... if you offer a choice like that, make good on it. Or at least write up some excuse on why things turned out as they did.

Were you satisfied with the codex entry on Shani?  I thought she was a good character, but in terms of significance to the epic, Triss is more important.  Not that Triss has to be Geralt's love interest, but she is more involved in the world events that shape the story.

[Addai]

Nerevar-as wrote...
If Geralt learnt the things she allowed Yennefer and Ciri to go through by following the Lodge´s plans, he wouldn´t forgive her. And she knows.

While I understand her, not mentioning Yennefer (her best friend) until Geralt remembered himself , and being a member of the Lodge makes me distrust her a lot.

Which book is that covered in?

I'm not sure I really want to know, tbh, in case CDPR changes the back story.  As for not mentioning Yennefer, I thought it was just to allow his memory to return naturally.  Of course she could have her own self-interest in mind, but I don't think that it's necessarily that.  She has to know Geralt is going to remember eventually, or be told by someone else.

[Babli]

Leinadi wrote...

Triss is more capable in a lot of ways
certainly. But fact of the matter is that they offered you a choice in
the first game which they then largely (completely?) ignored in the
second game. Plus, you have guys like Dandelion (not too capable)
showing up, so... If they really had wanted to write Shani in, they
could have done so. A large part of Witcher 2 is about the war, a
talented medic like Shani could've certainly had a place there.

If
you have great aspirations to write the "epic story" about these
characters, don't offer such choices in the first place if you're gonna
ignore them later on. Simple as that.

Again, I don't particularly
care about either Shani or Triss as characters. But yep... if you offer
a choice like that, make good on it. Or at least write up some excuse
on why things turned out as they did.

Well, you must consider that Witcher 1 was written as self-contained story. Guys at CDPR said that its like with Pirates of Caribean movies. First was made as stand-alone, rest was done almost together with sequels in mind. It was their first game and they didnt know at the time if they are gonna succeed. So you cant fault them that much. I am sure that consequences in W3 will be handled better. But still only with changes in some dialogues, maybe additional side-quests and stuff like that, since Geralt probably wont spend much time in the Northern Kingdoms in next game.

And giving Alvin to Shani was stupid anyway.

Modifié par Babli, 27 avril 2012 - 11:22 .

[Alpha-Centuri]

Babli wrote...

And giving Alvin to Shani was stupid anyway.

Agreed. Give the insanely magical mysterious mage kid to a normal person over a sorceress friend. Yeah... The Geralts that did that were chasing too hard after Shani's kitty.

And it would make no sense for a random common medic (no disrespect, I like Shani, but she is nothing special to the world) to be traversing with Geralt in TW2. I would have liked if in the new EE quest with cynthia, you could look at Shani through the magical megascope. Now THAT, I would have appreciated. Maybe end it with some closure in seeing her with a new beau or something like that.

Modifié par Alpha-Centuri, 28 avril 2012 - 12:20 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai67 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...
The Dwarves and Humans have craftsman, traders, inkeepers, bookeepers etc. The Elves have ****.

The elves have just as many traders and craftsmen as the dwarves.  You can get Raven's armor from an elf craftsman, for instance, and Cedric is a trader and craftsman.  I can't believe you're serious that because a race has been reduced to poverty and killed off in great numbers that that means they are worthless.  It is also Witcher lore that the Elder Blood contains power.  You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

Oh really? There are 2 Elven Craftsmen in the entirty of the game series and you comapre to what the dwarves have? There exceptions everywhere.

The Elves are a pathetic bunch who even refuse to farm or hunt ( I am not entirely sure for the latter ) in the Last Wish, whereas the Dwarves are actually productive. Yes they are worthless and I am sticking with that, especially when other races in their exact same situation or worse have become productive to society ( Dwarves and Gnomes ). The Dalish are 100 times better then the Elves of the Witcher World.  If the elves want to do something then perhaps they should do it instead of complaining or raising arms to slaughter humans, Cedric is an exception and we both know that, but someone like that is the future of the Elven race, if there is even going to be a future, not someone like that murderer Yaevinn or Iorveth. ( Granted Iorveth does want to stop killing, but after 100 years of doing it does he really expect anyone to forgive and forget just like that? Even Saskia strongly doubts it ).

Ultimately I see no reason whatsoever to give a damn for them or their stupid cause and no I am not including the wild hunt here. Those elves are an entirely different matter.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 28 avril 2012 - 01:14 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
And by the way you RP Geralt you mean that more aggressive Geralt you once told me about? I always saved Saskia myself, mostly because I thought that what happened at Loc Muinne with the mages wouldn't spread to the entire north. Still knowing it does make me even consider changing my cannon Roche Geralt...not that I will do it but still, it is worth thinking about.

I would hope some choices can blow up in your face though. Some do already but I would hope they take a step further.

What do you do with Loredo and Stennis though?

Yes that's my blunt aggressive Geralt who doens't think he is human and identifies with nonhumans more.

Save the elves and not pursue Loredo. Yea he's that kind of person. 
But he does not kill Stennis. Not because he gives a damn about him, but because he is afraid of what a human mob might do if gone out of control. Rivia is something he remembers.

[Sebby]

Does that Geralt of yours side with Malena in that side quest KoP?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Seboist wrote...

Does that Geralt of yours side with Malena in that side quest KoP?

My canon Geralt (went with Roche) didn't expose Malena and let her go.
That one will too.

[Costin_Razvan]

Why do that though? What of Rupert and Gridley, what did you do with those 2?

For me with Malena I told the soldiers the truth about the bodies then I heard her out and was led into that ambush...well can't say I am sorry for her.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 28 avril 2012 - 01:40 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Why do that though?

Why not?
 I am not going to give them Malena knowing full well what they will do with her and knowing that they are ****s to nonhumans with a corrupt scum of a commandant encouraging their actions.

And I am not going to kill her because I am not a vengeful person.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 avril 2012 - 01:40 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Meh...you don't fix racism with murder, but whatever.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 28 avril 2012 - 01:43 .

[Sebby]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Does that Geralt of yours side with Malena in that side quest KoP?

My canon Geralt (went with Roche) didn't expose Malena and let her go.
That one will too.

Yeah, I meant your Iorveth one. >_>

My Scoia/Iorveth path Geralt ending up killing her due to having him fight Scoia'tael(canon one handed her over to the guards) .

Would have been epic if a Scoia'tael path import allowed you to uh...have her fulfill her promise in the woods.

Modifié par Seboist, 28 avril 2012 - 01:44 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Meh...you don't fix racism with murder.

You don't fix anything by letting Malena get raped either, nor do you fix anything by perpetuating the system (plus I don't think what she did was murder, she was killing soldiers, it's part of the job. Soldiers who very likely abused her and everyone else in the city).

Malena was foolish, but understandably so and I do not believe Loredo and his scum lackeys are qualified to judge her adequately.

[Costin_Razvan]

They don't rape her, well if you want to believe then do so but the soldiers plan on finding a tree and hanging her but eventually take her to Loredo, what he does to her...well torture. Frankly I can't condone her actions, not that I condone Loredo's either but really just because there one is corrupt official like Loredo doesn't mean you say **** the entire system.

Truth be told the only Scoia'Tel I feel sympathy for are Toruviel, because at least she stopped Yaevinn from commiting some very serious crimes such as murdering humans in a hospital, Cedric ( he was formerly part of them ) and I guess the Elven Craftsman.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 28 avril 2012 - 01:52 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

They don't rape her, well if you want to believe then do so but the soldiers plan on finding a tree and hanging her but eventually take her to Loredo, what he does to her...well torture. Frankly I can't condone her actions, not that I condone Loredo's either but really just because there one is corrupt official like Loredo doesn't mean you say **** the entire system.

Well I will say **** the entire system because of how wasteful and primitive it is, that's where I happen to agree with count Maravel. What I have seen of the North thus far does not impress me that much. Only Redania does because of Novigrad and Oxenfurt.

EDIT: and while the abosprtio of the Order was a brilliant political move, I must say that I am not a fan of the Order that much either. A superstitious group of fanatics does not inspire much confidence. Siegfried as grand master is pretty much the only thing that makes them tolerable to me.

But what I meant here is specifically the system in Flotsam where Loredo is pretty much independent and does whatever the hell he wants. I will not allow that scum to be judge over nonhumans. Not when I know that he is making the situation with nonhumans worse and allows his soldiers to abuse them. 
An oppressor is not qualified to judge someone that he is oppressing.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 avril 2012 - 01:55 .

[Costin_Razvan]

An oppressor is not qualified to judge someone that he is oppressing.

That kind of mentality led to the collapse of the communist regime here and let me just say that things after for over a decade were really really bad for everyone and we have barely improved over what was before the Revolution by a small bit. So with that in mind, I despise Chaos.

Frankly however the Scoia'Tel started murdering humans LONG before Loredo started opressing them. I am also fairly certain she would have gotten the same treatment if Roche had judged her: Torture then getting hanged, or perhaps dying through torture.

 
Well I will say **** the entire system because of how wasteful and primitive it is, that's where I happen to agree with count Maravel. What I have seen of the North thus far does not impress me that much. Only Redania does because of Novigrad and Oxenfurt. 

Kaedwen has it's own university in Ban Aard actually, Dethmold did study there after all, but it's just medieval society as it was back in the day. "shrug"

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 28 avril 2012 - 01:58 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
That kind of mentality led to the collapse of the communist regime here and let me just say that things after for over a decade were really really bad for everyone and we have barely improved over what was before the Revolution by a small bit. So with that in mind, I despise Chaos.

Frankly however the Scoia'Tel started murdering humans LONG before Loredo started opressing them.

A simplistic comparison. But like I have said in the past. The only thing I despise more than chaos is stagnation, no matter how orderly it is.
But I believe the system can be reformed without full scale rebellions like Yaevinn, hence why I disagree with him. Nor would have I agreed with Saskia's methods that much were it not for Philippa Eilhart. Chaos can be controlled and bent to one's will, if one is a skilled enough leader and politician.

And humans started killing elves and oppressing them long before the Socia'tael. That kind of thinking leads to nowhere. BS needs to end, I don't give a damn who started it.

[Costin_Razvan]

And humans started killing elves and oppressing them long before the Socia'tael. That kind of thinking leads to nowhere. BS needs to end, I don't give a damn who started it.

How exactly do you end it by letting Malena go while killing Loredo? Both parties should be dealt with in this case in the same manner.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 28 avril 2012 - 02:01 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

 
Well I will say **** the entire system because of how wasteful and primitive it is, that's where I happen to agree with count Maravel. What I have seen of the North thus far does not impress me that much. Only Redania does because of Novigrad and Oxenfurt. 

Kaedwen has it's own university in Ban Aard actually, Dethmold did study there after all, but it's just medieval society as it was back in the day. "shrug"

It's a school of mages as far as I know.
And yes I know it's a typical medieval society. And it's not a type of society I favor.
I lean more towards empires and their multi-culturalism.