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[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Which makes me wonder if she actually believes in Saskia's cause for equality and if she does then who actually came up with the of creating a state in the Pontar?

I think she does, only because she thinks it makes sense and is a more pragmatic policy to have, which I 100% agree with.

Philippa is definitely the one who came up with the idea of creating a state, I think it's even mentionned, but Saskia probably started her rebellion of her own volition.

[Costin_Razvan]

Saskia and Zoltan.... or Yarpen, heh.

 
I think she does, only because she thinks it makes sense and is a more pragmatic policy to have, which I 100% agree with. 

Philippa is definitely the one who came up with the idea of creating a state, I think it's even mentionned, but Saskia probably started her rebellion of her own volition.  

if I recall doesn't Triss mention something along the lines that Phillipa went to Saskia and started her intetion to support her with creating the state.

Oh certainly I like the idea of the state, but I'm just curios how she expected to deal with Henselt when she doesn't want him dead. Or how she was going to deal with Foltest ( before he died ) and Radovid.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 05 mai 2012 - 04:17 .

[xHarrison23]

I think one of my favorite characters in the game is on Iorveth's path: Phillipa. 

Which makes me wonder if she actually believes in Saskia's cause for equality and if she does then who actually came up with the of creating a state in the Pontar? I think Saskia.

I don't think Phillipa really believes too much in Saskias cause, I think she just sees Saskia as a chance for the sorcessors to gain influence in the pontar valley. That was my interpretation.

And let's just drop the argument, lets just both agree that this game is amazing.

Modifié par xHarrison23, 05 mai 2012 - 04:19 .

[mupp3tz]

Look forward to seeing that, as well! I applaud Andrej Sapkowski for creating a realistic fantasy world with an interesting political/social conflict... with (shock!) actually intriguing and complex characters.

[Costin_Razvan]

Harrison: I think Phillipa shows a sense of admiration for Saskia when you save her, been a while so can't claim for certain this is true. Though of course Phillipa is a massive liar so anything she says can be considered false.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 05 mai 2012 - 04:20 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Harrison.
Ok I will go in.

I believe there is no mention at all of human polities having genocide as a *policy.*
They have occasional pogroms, constantly oppress nonhumans and force them into a second class status, and even start encroaching on nonhuman business (Vivaldi's bank, and the blacksmith in Flotsam). Demavend even raided Dol Blathanna with glee. But they have not initiated genocide or maintainned a policy of genocide.

That being said, it is possible to argue that human polities are causing an *indirect genocide.*
A Iorveth says, elves are few in numbers and long lived, compared to humans who reproduce much more. The elves are increasingly succumbing to a human demographic explosion. This, coupled with constant oppression, occasional pogroms, and the big generational gap the elves have, could be considered a very slow form genocide.

It is an argument to be made, though I am not sure of its validity, I would require stats and more info to make up my mind. And if that is the case, while one could hold humanity in general responsible, such a phenomenon cannot be pinpointed at specific individuals, Foltest and Roche included.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 mai 2012 - 04:25 .

[mupp3tz]

I have a love/hate going on with Philippa. God, she is such a ****... but what. a. great. character. The only thing I'm going to complain about is that I kept getting pulled out of my immersion because of her Disney princess outfit.

[Costin_Razvan]

One thing that should be mentioned is that we do not know how the elves are fairing in Nilfgaard. I mean Cynthya claims the relations between elves and humans have always been peaceful there. In EE content that is. Of course Geralt claims she is brainwashed.

 
The only thing I'm going to complain about is that I kept getting pulled out of my immersion because of her Disney princess outfit. 

As someone once told me, a woman btw, "I can't stop staring at her ******."

When I asked her why she told me : "It's just a perfect pair."

I think her outfit illustrates her character perfectly. She is someone who appears on the surface differently then what she really is.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 05 mai 2012 - 04:25 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
if I recall doesn't Triss mention something along the lines that Phillipa went to Saskia and started her intetion to support her with creating the state.

Oh certainly I like the idea of the state, but I'm just curios how she expected to deal with Henselt when she doesn't want him dead. Or how she was going to deal with Foltest ( before he died ) and Radovid.

She expected to beat Henselt in battle. Then use Loc Muinne to official declare the state, and impose advisers that she would have picked to make everyone accept the status quo or undermine any retaliation. 
Makes sense.

It is however a desperate plan, and one done for a reason. By that point, Radovid had aborbed the Order and Philippa knew that her position in Redania was untenable. Hence why she escaped Redania "so suddenly" as Radovid put it.

And that's what I mean when I say the conflict in Aedirn is complex. Events in Redania are a factor in its erruption.

[xHarrison23]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Harrison: I think Phillipa shows a sense of admiration for Saskia when you save her, been a while so can't claim for certain this is true. Though of course Phillipa is a massive liar so anything she says can be considered false.

This could be true, when I saw it I was thinking of Phillipa as lying so the lodge could have mdre influence and get the buffer between upper aerdirn and Kaedwin, hence more stability. Though it would make sense for Phillipa to admire Saskias goal because Sorcesses are looked down upon/ feared by humans, so she sympathizes with Saskias goal for equality. .

[KnightofPhoenix]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

I have a love/hate going on with Philippa. God, she is such a ****... but what. a. great. character. The only thing I'm going to complain about is that I kept getting pulled out of my immersion because of her Disney princess outfit.

Her outfit is perfectly in character and in-universe. Sorceresses use their looks to manipulate and Philippa is one hell of a looker with perfect breasts. Of course she is going to show it off, that's part of her modus operandi.

[xHarrison23]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Harrison.
Ok I will go in.

I believe there is no mention at all of human polities having genocide as a *policy.*
They have occasional pogroms, constantly oppress nonhumans and force them into a second class status, and even start encroaching on nonhuman business (Vivaldi's bank, and the blacksmith in Flotsam). Demavend even raided Dol Blathanna with glee. But they have not initiated genocide or maintainned a policy of genocide.

That being said, it is possible to argue that human polities are causing an *indirect genocide.*
A Iorveth says, elves are few in numbers and long lived, compared to humans who reproduce much more. The elves are increasingly succumbing to a human demographic explosion. This, coupled with constant oppression, occasional pogroms, and the big generational gap the elves have, could be considered a very slow form genocide.

It is an argument to be made, though I am not sure of its validity, I would require stats and more info to make up my mind. And if that is the case, while one could hold humanity in general responsible, such a phenomenon cannot be pinpointed at specific individuals, Foltest and Roche included.

I was trying to say that they were causing indirect genocide. That is my argument, and keeping with that argument Foltest by killing the Scoia'Tael are contributing to that indirect genocide. That is my position.

[Costin_Razvan]

Harrison: True, Phillipa does want influence but that doesn't exclude her actually wanting to achieve Saskia's goals. Just saying.

And she does want to use Saskia as a figurehead since she would be the perfect person for the job.

[KnightofPhoenix]

xHarrison23 wrote...
I was trying to say that they were causing indirect genocide. That is my argument, and keeping with that argument Foltest by killing the Scoia'Tael are contributing to that indirect genocide. That is my position.

Foltest kills any rebelling nonhuman community and not just Scoia'Tael, and he either created or perpetuated, or allowed the existence of reasons that would push nonhuman communities to rebel in the first place.

That would have been a stronger argument

[mupp3tz]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

I have a love/hate going on with Philippa. God, she is such a ****... but what. a. great. character. The only thing I'm going to complain about is that I kept getting pulled out of my immersion because of her Disney princess outfit.

Her outfit is perfectly in character and in-universe. Sorceresses use their looks to manipulate and Philippa is one hell of a looker with perfect breasts. Of course she is going to show it off, that's part of her modus operandi.

No, I get that and am aware of the whole thing about sorceresses being turned beautiful etc. from the novels.  BUT.. the first time I saw her, I thought "Snow White." and I couldn't unsee it and it just kept making me lulz.

[Costin_Razvan]

Knight: He did allow it to happen. There is one thing I'll agree on is that Foltest is responsible for the continued oppression of the elves. Yet I would not believe it is indirect genocide just based on what Iorveth says. He is biased on the matter after all.

I wonder why the Lodge saw fit to ensure the survival of the Scoia'Tel, we hear this from Javed in TW1 or rather that the lodge is responsible for the unresolved nature of the Scoia'Tel.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 05 mai 2012 - 04:34 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...
No, I get that and am aware of the whole thing about sorceresses being turned beautiful etc. from the novels.  BUT.. the first time I saw her, I thought "Snow White." and I couldn't unsee it and it just kept making me lulz.

If she is like a Disney villain (which she is most certainly not), then she's the first that made me fall in love with her

[Costin_Razvan]

The kind of woman you would happily marry? I'd be too terrified of her really.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 05 mai 2012 - 04:33 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Knight: He did allow it to happen. There is one thing I'll agree on is that Foltest is responsible for the continued oppression of the elves. Yet I would not believe it is indirect genocide just based on what Iorveth says. He is biased on the matter after all.

It is difficult to say without numbers.

But the proportion of elves in the total number of people is definitely decreasing faced to the human share.
That demographic weakness and submergence in polities that give them little to no rights is usually not a good sign.

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

He doesn't kill himself actually. He just starts a fire in the upper level. He is shown alive later.

You get 50 extra weight capacity if you spare him.

Oh?  I assumed he died because he couldn't walk on his own, sends Geralt ahead, then there's an explosion right behind you that closes off the passage.  Then in the outro Geralt says "I saved him, but he would not save himself."

All because they tortured him into confessing that Anais and Boussy were his children by incest. 

[mupp3tz]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The kind of woman you would happily marry? I'd be too terrified of her really.

Philippa would not be down with that.

EDIT: In regards to Aryan *not dying* all he basically says is "HA HA!  Fooled you, ya stupid witcha!  I been playin' in the dem dungeons since I was a wee lad."

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 05 mai 2012 - 04:36 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai67 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

He doesn't kill himself actually. He just starts a fire in the upper level. He is shown alive later.

You get 50 extra weight capacity if you spare him.

Oh?  I assumed he died because he couldn't walk on his own, sends Geralt ahead, then there's an explosion right behind you that closes off the passage.  Then in the outro Geralt says "I saved him, but he would not save himself."

All because they tortured him into confessing that Anais and Boussy were his children by incest. 

Oh yes, you get that cinematic but then he shows up in Act 3. He goes to Radovid and asks him for help in getting Anais from Dethmold's hands.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 05 mai 2012 - 04:36 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The kind of woman you would happily marry? I'd be too terrified of her really.

I said it once and I will say it again.

If Radovid and Philippa were happily married, Nilfgaard would have been ****ed (unless Emhyr can outbadass both combined).

But I guess we have to settle with the Radovid / Philippa rivalry, which is the best rivalry of the game (and was a huge factor in how the story progressed).

[Addai]

slimgrin wrote...
I'm with Iorveth now, an idealist's choice. And Iorveth is such an admirable badass, refreshing for an elf...but Roche. Roche is my ally. I still haven't changed my mind on that.

That's the nice thing about the game- I still felt like Geralt was Roche's ally by the end even on my Iorveth game.  Roche is pissed, but that's Roche.  They don't seem like enemies, though he's disappointed in Geralt for not helping him.

[Costin_Razvan]

It's like what Jamuka once said: "There can be no two suns in the sky, just like there can't be two Khan's"

That was Ghenkis Khan's friend. I feel though that in a marriage, especially a political one, there can be a great sense of rivalry.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 05 mai 2012 - 04:38 .