248 réponses à ce sujet

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

i actually thought the companions outfit system in DA2 to take the route of rogue galaxy (yes it's a jrpg but i like it), a game where companions had 3/4 outfits specially tailored to their model.
[snip art]

I couldn't stand that game but it was pretty good, visually. I liked their alternate costume thing as well.

[Ziggeh]

JohnEpler wrote...
They are a relic of the older days of PC gaming that I, for one, really miss. And I can certainly understand why others might as well.

Definitely, and I certainly hold a good deal of nostalgia for them. It's just not a system I would want to go back to, spoilt as I am by well crafted in game tutorials.

[upsettingshorts]

The reason I always looked forward to PC game manuals for a long time is this, right here:

[MerinTB]

Apparently there's still enough of a market for them (lengthy, meaty game manuals) for people to buy hardcover strategy guides.

Because, honestly, if you just wanted a walkthrough of the game there are always several available for free online. Legally free online, that is.

I've yet to experience an in-game tutorial or starter area that I liked that wasn't completely separate from the game (ToEE does this - you can load the tutorial area to learn game rules or skip it.)

EDIT - To be honest, I still flip through and read old game manuals to this day.  I was just reading the Knight of Legends manual yesterday and today, and last week it was Arcanum.

Modifié par MerinTB, 12 novembre 2010 - 06:12 .

[slimgrin]

With the rise of strategy guides, is the omission of manuals deliberate? Or is it just deemed unnecessary?

Personally, I have a couple strategy guides from Prima and I'm thoroughly unimpressed with them. The one for ME2 simply rips tons of info from the codex, the one for SF4 has dozens of useless snapshots of character moves, both offer little in the way of advanced tips.

I'd rather the game makers publish the guides, like CD Projekt did for The Witcher, or in the grand old NES days when every game usually came with an illustrated manual. I'd kill to get those manuals back.

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 novembre 2010 - 06:13 .

[Meltemph]

It would be nice, with RPG's specifically, instead of having the tutorial in the main game, have a selectable "tutorial" from the menu that goes through the games rules and mechanics..

[upsettingshorts]

I've never bought a third party video game guide and later felt, "Wow, that was a really worthwhile purchase." There's better, more up to date information available in those free internet guides by users.

The "Claw Marks" manual supplement was written by guys who helped make the game, and it was written in-character. That's the stuff I'm interested in.

I also remember the Jane's flight sim games coming with massive spiral-bound guides. For obvious reasons. And those were great, too.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 novembre 2010 - 06:15 .

[nightcobra]

Pseudocognition wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

i actually thought the companions outfit system in DA2 to take the route of rogue galaxy (yes it's a jrpg but i like it), a game where companions had 3/4 outfits specially tailored to their model.
[snip art]

I couldn't stand that game but it was pretty good, visually. I liked their alternate costume thing as well.

i put it as my best example of how companions could still remain their customization and being unique at the same time.

[Ziggeh]

MerinTB wrote...

I've yet to experience an in-game tutorial or starter area that I liked that wasn't completely separate from the game

Like most people I imagine, I tend to buy games I know I'll like based on previous games of the type, so it's very rare that I'll start into a game without a reasonable understanding of whats expected, and so like yourself, I can't think of many that I've actively enjoyed as part of the experience (I quite like the target ranges in CoD, and I played the worgen start area on the WoW beta the other day, and that's possibly the best piece of storytelling they've ever put in the game). I'm talking more from an objective design perspective.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 12 novembre 2010 - 06:23 .

[upsettingshorts]

Tortage was, for a lot of people - especially the ones that unsubscribed before reaching the endgame lol - the best part of Age of Conan.

[Ziggeh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Tortage was, for a lot of people - especially the ones that unsubscribed before reaching the endgame lol - the best part of Age of Conan.

Hah, yeah, I have a few friends who sign up for every new MMO together. Decide based on the starting area that it's the finest game ever concieved, only to discover that everything beyond that one zone is a barren wasteland and promptly quit, never to play again.

I like to think of it as the "smash and grab" model of game marketing.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 12 novembre 2010 - 06:31 .

[upsettingshorts]

I thought the rest of the game was well done, based on many of my posts here that's fairly obvious, but people definitely enjoyed Tortage. The first couple times anyway. Like anything else it got boring by the time you were leveling your fourth alt through it.

Anyway, yeah, MMOs in general want to hook their players early and they really do try to lead with their best foot. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 novembre 2010 - 06:43 .

[Ziggeh]

Never touched it myself so really couldn't say. It was just one of any number of games in which they followed the pattern.

[slimgrin]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Tortage was, for a lot of people - especially the ones that unsubscribed before reaching the endgame lol - the best part of Age of Conan.

Hah, yeah, I have a few friends who sign up for every new MMO together. Decide based on the starting area that it's the finest game ever concieved, only to discover that everything beyond that one zone is a barren wasteland and promptly quit, never to play again.

I like to think of it as the "smash and grab" model of game marketing.

MMO's. I wish them all a fiery death.

[fchopin]

I never look at manuals when i play games unless i really need to. I usually figure out how things work by playing the game and check manuals if i am stuck.



I have played games like X2 and X3 which require some sort of manual or pdf file but usually games are not that complicated.



I did need a manual for Star Ocean: Till the end of time for PS2 but that was a complex game.



Sometimes i find after completing games that i missed very big features that would have made the game easier but that's no problem i could play the game again and find out more.

[addiction21]

I think Civilization strikes a good balance between the basic help tips that pop up (and can be shut off if you want to) and the civilopedia. Which is basically a ingame manual that one can load up to go a little more in depth to the mechanics and gameplay features.

Its not a far cry from the codex... hint hint nudge nudge wink wink.

Modifié par addiction21, 12 novembre 2010 - 07:27 .

[MerinTB]

Oh, hey...

now THERE's a thought, addiction21...

in-game manual.

When creating a character, you can pop it up in a window that you can refer to as you are making the character.

When playing the game it's accessible as a little pop-up.

By this I mean, of course, that the game doesn't pause while it's up, unless you pause the game.  But if you DO pause the game you can still "flip" through the in-game manual.

I don't mean help files or tutorials - I mean how manuals were, but just integrated into the actual game to access while playing, like Codexes and Journals and such.

THAT would be a happy middle-ground for me.

[Apollo Starflare]

addiction21 wrote...

I think Civilization strikes a good balance between the basic help tips that pop up (and can be shut off if you want to) and the civilopedia. Which is basically a ingame manual that one can load up to go a little more in depth to the mechanics and gameplay features.

Its not a far cry from the codex... hint hint nudge nudge wink wink.

Yeah I've always liked this idea, would certainly not be against something similar being incorporated into more complex/detailed RPG's such as Dragon Age, purely as an additional function to the codex itself even.

[addiction21]

You dont know what you have done Merin. I had a good idea now something bad is going to happen. Last time I had one I got a Jruy duty summons and now I have to spend this thanksgiving week in court.

Modifié par addiction21, 12 novembre 2010 - 08:44 .

[Gill Kaiser]

JohnEpler wrote...

As for the topic at hand - I just recently packed up to move. I was looking at my massive collection of old PC game manuals (back to the early days of Ultima and including my coffee-table sized Falcon 4.0 manual). It is very, very difficult for me to part with them. I still have the manuals from all versions of Ultima Online, and even though I picked up the 'trilogy' edition, I've got my original EverQuest manual in a place of pride.

I can certainly sympathize with the people who love manuals. When I first got into PC gaming, the process was generally - install game, play for a bit. Get to point where I need the manual (D&D Stronghold being an excellent example), then read the manual for a while until I both A) understand the mechanics necessary and have read all the 'flavour' text.

They are a relic of the older days of PC gaming that I, for one, really miss. And I can certainly understand why others might as well.

I always used to read manuals on the toilet. I've since learned from other forums that that was quite a common practice.

[AtreiyaN7]

Heh, I still have my assorted X-Com manuals even though the X-Com games themselves disappeared into the ether (aka, my dad lent them out to a friend and apparently never got them back ). I do miss the manuals, but I suppose the bright side is that it's more environmentally friendly at least. I've played Civ 5, and yes, something like the civilopedia seems like a good idea. Hmph, they should have included something like that for SC2 (i just hate having to jump into my browser to find details about the assorted units ).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 12 novembre 2010 - 09:08 .

[MerinTB]

Gill Kaiser wrote...
I always used to read manuals on the toilet. I've since learned from other forums that that was quite a common practice.

I'm pretty sure it's commonly referred to as "the reading room."

[upsettingshorts]

MerinTB wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...
I always used to read manuals on the toilet. I've since learned from other forums that that was quite a common practice.

I'm pretty sure it's commonly referred to as "the reading room."

I don't know if we could assign the label to the entire room.  I mean, I do some of my best thinking in the shower. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 novembre 2010 - 09:55 .

[ENolan]

AlanC9 wrote...

The Director wrote...
So where did you stand on the idea of Tier-based armor ratings? Did that correlate around the same system as a more simplified star-based system would? Did putting bonuses in green and restrictions in red help at all? Just a question; I don't to accidentally sound confrontational. [Sorry, I get that a lot]

The star ratings don't replace item stats. They're apparently just a guide to which stats you want to look at. 

I never implied that it did, in type or considering they are two different sets of information. I'm just trying to get an opinion on the overall armor ratings of Origins.