248 réponses à ce sujet

[nightcobra]

SoulRebel_1979 wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...
what we know so far is that the isometric view has gone but the actual tactical camera remains.

So, no more Iso camera at all? Even for PC players? 

this is what laidlaw said on the matter:


On the PC, however, we are still working with the camera to keep the key elements of the tactical experience there. I was actually playtesting some new camera code when Victor found me, in fact, so I can give you the latest news on that front.

While we likely won't pull as far up as we did in DA:O, I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders, which is what we're tuning now. So, this means you can still maneuver the camera around the battlefield and issue orders from a remote location, just as you could in Origins.

[Tsuga C]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
At this point its more just like venting since Bioware clearly couldn't care much less about the older PC fans since they figured we'll buy it anyway. I will be getting DA2 since I preordered, but like I've said before, if it leaves me with a ME2 taste in the mouth thats it for day 1 purchases from me, I'll buy bargin bin, or cheaply from other sources from now on.

Well said, m' Lady.  I jettisoned any notion of pre-ordering anything from anyone a long time ago when I was disappointed by Lucas Arts' Force Commander.  Burned once, lesson learned.  The fact that BioWare handed NWN2 off to Obsidian let me know that their judgment had become suspect and that things had taken a considerable turn for the worse.  They redeemed themselves with DA:O, but in the interim had sold their soul to EA.

I make no apologies for this skepticism, especially considering the fact that they're not only changing DA2 into something not only more console-friendly, but they also appear to be targeting a middle school or high school demographic instead of the post-university crowd.  

[MerinTB]

When I say tactical camera, all it really means from me is being able to get a bird's eye view (isometric if you like) of the battlefield from high-up, and being able to move the camera around the battlefield while paused.



I'm not a fan of 3rd person gameplay, and I strongly dislike 1st person.



I didn't like it with Wolfenstein, Ultima Underworld, Eye of the Beholder and Doom - and I don't like it now.



---



I can't speak for what other's mean by "tactical camera" - someone could say that and mean the camera jumps to wherever the action is on its own.

[shadowpiranha]

That's it. I am going to do like Cartman before the Wii launch and freeze myself until March. I can't wait. Thanks for the review, OP!

[upsettingshorts]

Tsuga C wrote...

they also appear to be targeting a middle school or high school demographic instead of the post-university crowd

You'd think the "post-university crowd" would be above such things.  However I know far too many academics to actually expect it.

MerinTB wrote...

When I say tactical camera, all it really means from me is being able to get a bird's eye view (isometric if you like) of the battlefield from high-up, and being able to move the camera around the battlefield while paused.

I haven't read anything that leads me to believe that your idea of a tactical camera won't exist in Dragon Age 2.  The second note in my initial post - about the game auto pausing and zooming out upon selection of an AOE ability - seems to run contradictory to any fear that it doesn't exist.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 novembre 2010 - 07:49 .

[Tsuga C]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

they also appear to be targeting a middle school or high school demographic instead of the post-university crowd

You'd think the "post-university crowd" would be above such things.  However I know far too many academics to actually expect it.

With the average age of computer gamers now being in the low 30s, one would think that there's a sufficiently large market for a cRPG made in accordance with this fact.  All the talk in the beginning was of the DA series being most heavily influenced by Tolkien and G.R.R. Martin, not that Rowling woman.  I'd hate to think that the combat and artwork in DA2 went the way of 4E D&D to appeal to 12 year-olds.  At 32 you don't have the tastes and credulity of a 7th grader.  At least one would hope not, anyway.  

[Saibh]

Tsuga C wrote...

With the average age of computer gamers now being in the low 30s, one would think that there's a sufficiently large market for a cRPG made in accordance with this fact.  All the talk in the beginning was of the DA series being most heavily influenced by Tolkien and G.R.R. Martin, not that Rowling woman.  I'd hate to think that the combat and artwork in DA2 went the way of 4E D&D to appeal to 12 year-olds.  At 32 you don't have the tastes and credulity of a 7th grader.  At least one would hope not, anyway.  

It depends on your definition of what makes an intelligent game. I'd argue it's the story and characters that will make a game enjoyable to people looking for a "smart" game. Not the combat.

Others would argue that looking exciting and flashy isn't the same thing as combat being stupid or for young people only. Honestly, the idea that DAO was only for people with degrees is plain silly. That entire game could be played by kiting enemies, chugging health potions, and spamming AoE attacks.

Modifié par Saibh, 11 novembre 2010 - 08:32 .

[Gashington]

...and for that I do apologize to him

Don't worry, no offense taken.



And yes I did mean tactical. I'd argue that a higher pace would require you to react and readjust your tactics to situations faster and more ahead of time than before and intercept danger faster before it squishes you. Ofcourse I guess you could easily argue speed is not a factor.



I really dont understand what people mean when they say Bioware has changed the combat to be more console-friendly, surely it plays more or less the same on PC as Origins did, except for the bird's eye camera (if they actually remove it) I guess, bu it since I neverf really cared for it ater the days of BG and IWD it's not a big loss for me.



Bioware hasn't dissappointed me yet, even the Mass Effects games were great for being shooters, and after seeing what I saw I think that trend will continue

they also appear to be targeting a middle school or high school demographic instead of the post-university crowd

Maturity is not a matter of age and never has been, and as Upsettingshorts said, I too know far too many academics to believe that to be the case.

[Apollo Starflare]

@Upsettingshorts: That's exactly what I mean, nowhere has it ever been indicated that we are going to have to play the game entirely from third person view. Sure I am with everyone else in wanting some confirmation and gameplay of the new tactical camera but everything we know so far points at it still being just as useful for tactical play. It zooms around battlefields, zooms out further than the standard cam (although not as far as the iso cam) and is being tuned by devs who have expressed their love of the tactical playstyle previously.

Tsuga C wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

they also appear to be targeting a middle school or high school demographic instead of the post-university crowd

You'd think the "post-university crowd" would be above such things.  However I know far too many academics to actually expect it.

With the average age of computer gamers now being in the low 30s, one would think that there's a sufficiently large market for a cRPG made in accordance with this fact.  All the talk in the beginning was of the DA series being most heavily influenced by Tolkien and G.R.R. Martin, not that Rowling woman.  I'd hate to think that the combat and artwork in DA2 went the way of 4E D&D to appeal to 12 year-olds.  At 32 you don't have the tastes and credulity of a 7th grader.  At least one would hope not, anyway.  

Okay, where and how are they targeting the people you are listing off here? They are targeting them by using marketing words like 'hot rodded'? Or are you suggesting that faster combat animations means younger ideal audience? Because that is rather non sensical. The art style, plot, and characters within the game all looks to appeal to the same playership that Origin's appealed to, a game you admit to having liked. In fact Origins is the example of Bioware's least mature marketing decision; The much derided Marilyn Manson trailer. Yet that game turned out suitable for the 'pots-university' crowd did it not? 

Incidentally I am a post-grad who plays on the xbox who loves all the old Bioware titles and I like what I have seen of DA2 so something must be appealing to me.

[Nefario]

Tsuga C wrote...
All the talk in the beginning was of the DA series being most heavily influenced by Tolkien and G.R.R. Martin, not that Rowling woman.

Am I misinterpreting you, or did you really just suggest that Dragon Age 2 looks to be influenced by Harry Potter?

[Herr Uhl]

Nefario wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...
All the talk in the beginning was of the DA series being most heavily influenced by Tolkien and G.R.R. Martin, not that Rowling woman.

Am I misinterpreting you, or did you really just suggest that Dragon Age 2 looks to be influenced by Harry Potter?

I think the meaning is that they're kids book in his regard. Claiming that DA2 is influenced by Harry Potter would be odd to say the least.

[AtreiyaN7]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Why even mention me like I'm this piece of crap person? Let me lay it out there AngryPants, I'm not politically correct, nor do I wish to be. I'm not afraid to say what's on my mind either, and I really don't care if it hurts the feelings of some console  player or fanboy from time to time.

At this point its more just like venting since Bioware clearly couldn't care much less about the older PC fans since they figured we'll buy it anyway. I will be getting DA2 since I preordered, but like I've said before, if it leaves me with a ME2 taste in the mouth thats it for day 1 purchases from me, I'll buy bargin bin, or cheaply from other sources from now on.

You seem to think it's A-OK  for you to be abrasive and rude by using  the lame justification that you're "not politically correct." People around here, not just you, who are upset the new changes seem to be using console gamers as convenient whipping boys to lash out at because they want to vent. If you need to vent, you can do that elsewhere I imagine. It adds nothing to intelligent discourse and discussion. If you're upset with changes, then there are ways to express your displeasure without constantly taking it out on others.

I'm an "older PC fan" as well. However, you don't see me throwing tantrums over every change I don't like. I have previously stated that I wasn't happy about the loss of the DW warrior spec in other threads, but I am capable of accepting that it's part of what BW wants to do to make classes distinctive. I've expressed my disagreement with said decision in a civil manner, without resorting to blaming everything on console users. As an older, ostensibly mature fan, I also realize that acting like a petulant brat who constantly screams, rants and acts out doesn't really get you anywhere in life.

I rather doubt that anyone's boss, friends, co-workers, etc. would tolerate this kind of behavior if it were directed at them. If you want to express your displeasure, then maybe you should try stating what you don't like, why you don't like it and what you'd prefer to see instead? I don't really see how some people here can claim to be part of group that is supposedly more intelligent and mature than console users when all they do is resort to launching immature, juvenile insults at other people.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 11 novembre 2010 - 08:51 .

[Nefario]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Nefario wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...
All the talk in the beginning was of the DA series being most heavily influenced by Tolkien and G.R.R. Martin, not that Rowling woman.

Am I misinterpreting you, or did you really just suggest that Dragon Age 2 looks to be influenced by Harry Potter?

I think the meaning is that they're kids book in his regard. Claiming that DA2 is influenced by Harry Potter would be odd to say the least.

That would be a funny way of making the point, given that Tolkien wrote his books for his own children.

[nightcobra]

Nefario wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...
All the talk in the beginning was of the DA series being most heavily influenced by Tolkien and G.R.R. Martin, not that Rowling woman.

Am I misinterpreting you, or did you really just suggest that Dragon Age 2 looks to be influenced by Harry Potter?

"who has an owl for a pet?"

[upsettingshorts]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

"who has an owl for a pet?"

Where's the hot jailb... I mean... hang on, someone's at my door.

[John Epler]

Let's make something clear right now. This whole idea that 'only intelligent people like these features, whereas these other features are for children and halfwits' is absolutely ridiculous and, quite frankly, rather insulting to a large percentage of people who play games.



If you wish to continue to pursue this line of thought where what you enjoy in a video game somehow makes you the intellectual superior to someone else, you will be doing this elsewhere. Elitist nonsense is not welcome on these forums, and quite honestly I'm rather tired of seeing it from a particular group of people.



You are not the landed gentry and intelligentsia of these forums locked in an eternal struggle against the forces of anti-intellectual thought. You are people who play games, who happen to enjoy a set of features different than those other people enjoy. If you can't keep posting without espousing this ridiculous notion that people enjoying certain features that you don't is somehow indicative of a lowered intellect or maturity, I will ask you to take your leave of these forums.



Learn to respect each other. Learn to discuss points. Learn to make a post without sliding an insult or mischaracterization in there. Or don't post at all.



And on a related note - people who do not agree with our decisions are welcome to post here, just the same as people who agree with our decisions. If you are upset with how they are posting or if you feel they are being disruptive, let us know. PM me - I'm either at work or on the forums enough that I will receive it. But respect them on the forums. Don't call them trolls, don't suggest that they're going to hate everything that we say or do - they can share their opinion much as you can share yours. I hate to trot it out, but as they say - if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.



The moderators are here to keep the forums civil and pleasant for people of all opinions. Trust us to do our job, and please treat others with the same respect you wish to be treated with.

[upsettingshorts]

JohnEpler wrote...
You are not the landed gentry and intelligentsia ... locked in an eternal struggle against the forces of anti-intellectual thought.

Note to David Gaider, Casey Hudson, Mike Laidlaw, etc:  I would buy this game.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 novembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[Herr Uhl]

Nefario wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Nefario wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...
All the talk in the beginning was of the DA series being most heavily influenced by Tolkien and G.R.R. Martin, not that Rowling woman.

Am I misinterpreting you, or did you really just suggest that Dragon Age 2 looks to be influenced by Harry Potter?

I think the meaning is that they're kids book in his regard. Claiming that DA2 is influenced by Harry Potter would be odd to say the least.

That would be a funny way of making the point, given that Tolkien wrote his books for his own children.

*shrugs*

Still, the way of interpreting it that makes the most sense to me. Kind of like how swing music now is mature and for people with refined taste when it was noise for misbehaving kids a few decades ago maybe?

[AtreiyaN7]

Perhaps now we can all get back to discussing the article itself and/or changes like adults? Because that would be really awesome.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 11 novembre 2010 - 09:04 .

[John Epler]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Perhaps now we can all get back to discussing the article itself and/or changes like adults? Because that would be really awesome.

That would be ideal, yes.

Modifié par JohnEpler, 11 novembre 2010 - 09:10 .

[nightcobra]

 i salute you john.


makes me remember the first minute of this speech actually

[nightcobra]

quick question:



on the "go to" option in the radial menu, does the character go there regardless of tactics or do tactics take priority? for example i tell alistair to go to a certain place and in the way he finds a genlock, will he deviate from his course to attack the genlock if his tactics demand him to do so or does he run straight into the point i selected for him to go to?

[Mike Laidlaw]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

quick question:

on the "go to" option in the radial menu, does the character go there regardless of tactics or do tactics take priority? for example i tell alistair to go to a certain place and in the way he finds a genlock, will he deviate from his course to attack the genlock if his tactics demand him to do so or does he run straight into the point i selected for him to go to?

Go there first, then tactics take over if they're under AI control, do whatever you tell them to do next if you're under direct control. Identical to right-clicking on the PC.

[nightcobra]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

quick question:

on the "go to" option in the radial menu, does the character go there regardless of tactics or do tactics take priority? for example i tell alistair to go to a certain place and in the way he finds a genlock, will he deviate from his course to attack the genlock if his tactics demand him to do so or does he run straight into the point i selected for him to go to?

Go there first, then tactics take over if they're under AI control, do whatever you tell them to do next if you're under direct control. Identical to right-clicking on the PC.

thanks:D that'll really enhance the tactical feel for consoles.

[AnimaTempli101]

Slightly off-topic: I will never understand where the whole 'PC= Smart people, Consoles= Dumb people' idea came from, someone PM me the answer if they have it.

Edit: Please everyone, no more messages I have the answer now. 

On topic: In regards to the OP. Mike, David, various other BW staff who I can't remember right now, my faith in you all has been rewarded. Can't wait for DA2 now.

Modifié par AnimaTempli101, 11 novembre 2010 - 09:34 .