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Commander Shepard is a boring character


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#26
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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DarthCaine wrote...

Shepard's personality was greatly improved in ME2.

In ME1 he was an emotionless character that barely spoke. He had little to no personality in ME1.

In ME2 by speaking more often, he gained much more personality. He even showed emotion is some scenes unlike ME1. The epic speeches, the badass lines and much more are why Shepard's character is much improved in ME2.


Both Shepard's voice actors did a better preformance in ME2. So yes, in a sense Shepard did display more emotions in his/her voice. But on the other side, ME1 had a scene where Shepard was in focus ME2-maingame completely lacked this. So ME2 Shepard felt more inhuman.

Thank god LOTSB fixed this.

#27
Skilled Seeker

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kraidy1117 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

maxernst wrote...

Phaedon wrote...


ME1 was a game that tried to make a step forward while keeping it's RPG identity. Unfortunately, some bad RPG elements made it to ME1, like a protagonist with no character development etc.


Lack of character development is an RPG element? 


Well most old-school RPGs don't even have your character talk when you speak to someone. 


Or in the case of Fable your character's communication is limited to farting in people's faces.

Not in Fable 3!:wizard:

Yeah you can talk now right? Fable 3 seemed to have copyed DA:A quite a bit with the whole being in power and governing your people.

Um what? Fable 3 did it a lot better then DA:A. The point is your character talks now, it's not just expresion focus.

I don't have the game so I can't comment on the quality but DA:A did it first.

DOing it first and doing it right are two diffrent things.

How did DA:A do it wrong or for that matter how did Fable 3 do it right? Pretty much all the player reviews of Fable 3 I've read say its crap and worse than its predecessors.

#28
kraidy1117

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Orly? Because player reviews I have seen on Lionhead and from friends love Fable 3.

#29
AdmiralCheez

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Mark Meer was kind of dull in ME1 (to the point where I could hardly stand him), in ME2 he really shines (apart from a few romance scenes). Jennifer Hale has always been good in my opinion (a lot of emotion and power), but Mark does snappy comebacks and acting drunk better. Cry heresy, but I like them both.



What I like about ME2 and the newer DLC is that Shep is showing more and more character. Before, he/she was pretty much a blank slate for you to project your own attitudes onto, but with additional banter and honest improvement on Mark and Jen's parts, I dare say Shepard is blossoming into a unique and entertaining hero.

#30
Skilled Seeker

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kraidy1117 wrote...

Orly? Because player reviews I have seen on Lionhead and from friends love Fable 3.

Right because players on the Lionhead website won't be biased Posted Image

Check out the youtube comments under IGN's review. There is a collective hate.

btw this is going off topic.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 10 novembre 2010 - 09:11 .


#31
kraidy1117

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Skilled Seeker wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Orly? Because player reviews I have seen on Lionhead and from friends love Fable 3.

Right because players on the Lionhead website won't be biased Posted Image

Check out the youtube comments under IGN's review. There is a collective hate.

btw this is going off topic.

The same could be said here with the all ME love. If you are saying they are all bias there, then everyone here is also bias :wizard:

There is no diffrence.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 10 novembre 2010 - 09:13 .


#32
Mr. MannlyMan

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DarthCaine wrote...

Shepard's personality was greatly improved in ME2.

In ME1 he was an emotionless character that barely spoke. He had little to no personality in ME1.

In ME2 by speaking more often, he gained much more personality. He even showed emotion is some scenes unlike ME1. The epic speeches, the badass lines and much more are why Shepard's character is much improved in ME2.


Not really... I see where the developers made efforts to improve the character's expression and facial animations (if you avoid looking at the rape-face), but he's less defined in ME2 as a character. At least ME1 actually had conversations that helped you to define who your character was: whether he/she is religious, xenophobic/elitist, dwells on past failures, etc... it was all there for your to define.

In ME2, you can either be rude or polite, and you're meant to define Shepard's personality this way... there are very few conversations where the focus of the conversation is on Shepard's character. There were even some great opportunities to give Shepard dialog that would help define him/her: for example, if you had the sole survivor background and you rescued Corporal Toombs from the Cerberus facility in ME1, you would know that Cerberus was to blame for your squad's destruction on Akuze. This is NEVER brought up in your conversations with the Illusive Man in ME2. The game overlooks this variable (which, really, is a HUGE deal considering it would really complicate Shepard's relationship with the Illusive Man), and makes one of the major connections to the first game meaningless, as well as trivializes a major point in Shepard's past.

Plenty of those oversights in ME2, and it bothers a lot of people because it makes Shepard seem... less relatable to the characters and more of a blank slate for the player to ride through the story on. Of course, you CAN determine whether Shepard agrees with the genophage or not, whether he supports the Quarians going to war with the Geth, but you never really see Shepard get personal.

This would be fixed if ME3 contained more conversations where Shepard could be defined as a character (eg. the convos with Ashley where you can determine Shep's religious viewpoint and even his interest in poetry, or Shep's views on other races, etc.). You know, actual evidential admissions of personal preferrence.


By the way, I think the dialog in ME2 was fantastic and on-par with the dialog in ME1; maybe even better. I just think that ME1 did several things right that ME2 should have done the same way. 

Modifié par Mr. MannlyMan, 10 novembre 2010 - 09:44 .


#33
Guest_mrsph_*

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Mark Meer has the whitest voice in the galaxy.

#34
Fraevar

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Shepard did speak a lot more in ME2, but BioWare did the character a great disservice by killing them off and then doing absolutely nothing in terms of either growth or self-reflection. Death is a pretty nasty experience, so to have Shepard come back two years later there should have been serious dealings with issues such as his/her own mortality, the fact that friends and everyone else are turning their backs on Shepard and so on. But instead we got a brick. Male or female doesn't really matter there, Shepard's a brick and for a second act that was supposedly about evolving Shepard's story, it failed utterly in doing so.



Nevermind the Collector "plot" or the disconnected sidemissions, to me the biggest disaster in ME2 was that BioWare completely ignored giving Shepard *any* chances/options for character development whatsoever. The end result being that Shepard is a completely interchangeable brick.

#35
DarthCaine

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@Mr. MannlyMan and Delerius_Jedi

I disagree, there were plenty of scenes in ME2 where Shepard's morality was defined (mostly the loyalty missions)

ME2's plot was centered mostly on Shepard and how great a leader he is and his morality (like Mordin's loyalty quest for example). In ME1 he was just another grunt sent after Saren.

Modifié par DarthCaine, 10 novembre 2010 - 10:40 .


#36
AdmiralCheez

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Delerius has a point. The whole death thing was a big issue and I can't believe they didn't do more with it.

#37
DarthCaine

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Delerius has a point. The whole death thing was a big issue and I can't believe they didn't do more with it.

Like what? Have characters ask him whether there's life after death and then have a sh!tstorm of Atheists and Christians arguing about what BioWare chose?

That's the reason it's wasn't mentioned more, to avoid such incidents

Modifié par DarthCaine, 10 novembre 2010 - 10:39 .


#38
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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Have Shepard ponder if he truly is himself and not just clone or something else?

#39
AdmiralCheez

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DarthCaine wrote...

Like what? Have characters ask him whether there's life after death and then have a sh!tstorm of Atheists and Christians arguing of what BioWare chose?

That's the reason it's wasn't mentioned more, to avoid such incidents


I meant something more like a little bit of self-reflection, wondering about all the things he'd missed and how much of himself was still really him.  A little 30-second cutscene or something.

Then again, it'd be hard to fit into the game, and Shep's not the type to brood over things.

#40
Guest_mrsph_*

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They shouldn't have done the whole "Shepard dies" thing. Because it was ****ing horrible and only referenced like one or two times after that. Would have been easier to make him/her a P.O.W of the batarians or something.

#41
DarthCaine

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Lizardviking wrote...

Have Shepard ponder if he truly is himself and not just clone or something else?

Like intiate a conversation with yourself ? And besides, you do discuss that with Jacob and Miranda.

I think this discussion is biased and boils down to "I prefer ME1 so ME1 Shepard is better"

#42
AdmiralCheez

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DarthCaine wrote...

I think this discussion is biased and boils down to "I prefer ME1 so ME1 Shepard is better"


Really?  Because I liked ME2's Shepard more, even though I thought ME1 had the better narrative.

#43
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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DarthCaine wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Have Shepard ponder if he truly is himself and not just clone or something else?

Like intiate a conversation with yourself ? And besides, you do discuss that with Jacob and Miranda.

I think this discussion is biased and boils down to "I prefer ME1 so ME1 Shepard is better"


Anything could have been used. A conversation with Chakwas/Garrus/Tali or someone else from the old crew. They could have had a scene where Shepard examine his scars and then you could chose to have diffrent reactions etc.

And no. This discussion isn't biased. ME2 maingame lacked a scene dedicated to Shepard. ME1 had the locker scene, ME2 had nothing. Whats worse is that Shepard goes through alot worse things in ME2 (death, accused of treason by former friend/lover, Anderson giving the cold shoulder, Council still thinks you are mad).

#44
kraidy1117

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Lizardviking wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Have Shepard ponder if he truly is himself and not just clone or something else?

Like intiate a conversation with yourself ? And besides, you do discuss that with Jacob and Miranda.

I think this discussion is biased and boils down to "I prefer ME1 so ME1 Shepard is better"


Anything could have been used. A conversation with Chakwas/Garrus/Tali or someone else from the old crew. They could have had a scene where Shepard examine his scars and then you could chose to have diffrent reactions etc.

And no. This discussion isn't biased. ME2 maingame lacked a scene dedicated to Shepard. ME1 had the locker scene, ME2 had nothing. Whats worse is that Shepard goes through alot worse things in ME2 (death, accused of treason by former friend/lover, Anderson giving the cold shoulder, Council still thinks you are mad).

LotSB at least fix's that.

#45
DarthCaine

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Lizardviking wrote...

And no. This discussion isn't biased. ME2 maingame lacked a scene dedicated to Shepard. ME1 had the locker scene, ME2 had nothing. Whats worse is that Shepard goes through alot worse things in ME2 (death, accused of treason by former friend/lover, Anderson giving the cold shoulder, Council still thinks you are mad).

ME1 had only one scene where Shepard showed one bit of emotion while for the rest of the game he was an emotionless husk.

ME2 had the reminiscing with Chakwas, a whole discussion with Mordin about morality (same goes with Garrus, Miranda, Zaeed and Jack in their loyalty missions) and it had LOTSB. ME2 defined Shepard's character of how great a leader he is. (the epic speeches are an example)

A couple of smaller scenes where he shows emotion is far better than having only one big scene then for the rest acting like a robot.

Even in his reunion with former characters in ME2 he showed at least SOME emotion, while in ME1 he acted like a robot with everyone he met.

Modifié par DarthCaine, 10 novembre 2010 - 11:04 .


#46
Skilled Seeker

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I AM SHEPARD. EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!!!!!

#47
Fraevar

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DarthCaine wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Have Shepard ponder if he truly is himself and not just clone or something else?

Like intiate a conversation with yourself ? And besides, you do discuss that with Jacob and Miranda.

I think this discussion is biased and boils down to "I prefer ME1 so ME1 Shepard is better"


No, Shepard shouldn't discuss with himself. However. You have two characters in ME2 who knew Shepard from before and who should have a very positive or negative opinion about him/her based on that, namely Tali and Garrus. Instead their ONLY reaction to hearing that their friend/Commander is back from the dead is "You're alive?" and "I thought you were dead." That is it. BioWare should have done a lot more with that, like putting in scenes where Garrus and Tali would come to check up on Shepard because they might actually be concerned for his/her wellbeing. I know there'd be people out there who wouldn't like that stuff, but it could've been made skippable by the lower right option on the dialogue wheel. But as a story-telling mechanism and character development tool, the option to have Shepard engage in self-reflection and to actually voice his/her own opinion on things is absolutely essential and BioWare completely ignored this, making Shepard come across as a total brick.

You can see it in the praise for Lair of the Shadow Broker - what are people excited about there? They are excited because *finally* someone from Shepard's past actually dares to ask how Shepard is doing and Shepard *finally* gets to give an honest answer, one that is not just some random hero/leader cliché. In a series that was supposedly about Shepard's journey, the importance of scenes like that cannot be overstated. That BioWare - a company that sells themselves on their story-telling skills completely fails there was a genuine shock to me. And a massive letdown.

#48
kraidy1117

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Delerius_Jedi wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Have Shepard ponder if he truly is himself and not just clone or something else?

Like intiate a conversation with yourself ? And besides, you do discuss that with Jacob and Miranda.

I think this discussion is biased and boils down to "I prefer ME1 so ME1 Shepard is better"


No, Shepard shouldn't discuss with himself. However. You have two characters in ME2 who knew Shepard from before and who should have a very positive or negative opinion about him/her based on that, namely Tali and Garrus. Instead their ONLY reaction to hearing that their friend/Commander is back from the dead is "You're alive?" and "I thought you were dead." That is it. BioWare should have done a lot more with that, like putting in scenes where Garrus and Tali would come to check up on Shepard because they might actually be concerned for his/her wellbeing. I know there'd be people out there who wouldn't like that stuff, but it could've been made skippable by the lower right option on the dialogue wheel. But as a story-telling mechanism and character development tool, the option to have Shepard engage in self-reflection and to actually voice his/her own opinion on things is absolutely essential and BioWare completely ignored this, making Shepard come across as a total brick.

You can see it in the praise for Lair of the Shadow Broker - what are people excited about there? They are excited because *finally* someone from Shepard's past actually dares to ask how Shepard is doing and Shepard *finally* gets to give an honest answer, one that is not just some random hero/leader cliché. In a series that was supposedly about Shepard's journey, the importance of scenes like that cannot be overstated. That BioWare - a company that sells themselves on their story-telling skills completely fails there was a genuine shock to me. And a massive letdown.

101% this!

#49
Skilled Seeker

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Well that we are discussing such small details about main character development shows just how great a game Bioware crafted. 99.9% of players don't give a damn and the thought probably never crossed their mind.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 10 novembre 2010 - 11:23 .


#50
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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DarthCaine wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

And no. This discussion isn't biased. ME2 maingame lacked a scene dedicated to Shepard. ME1 had the locker scene, ME2 had nothing. Whats worse is that Shepard goes through alot worse things in ME2 (death, accused of treason by former friend/lover, Anderson giving the cold shoulder, Council still thinks you are mad).

ME1 had only one scene where Shepard showed one bit of emotion while for the rest of the game he was an emotionless husk.

ME2 had the reminiscing with Chakwas, a whole discussion with Mordin about morality (same goes with Garrus, Miranda, Zaeed and Jack in their loyalty missions) and it had LOTSB. ME2 defined Shepard's character of how great a leader he is. (the epic speeches are an example)

A couple of smaller scenes where he shows emotion is far better than having only one big scene then for the rest acting like a robot.

Even in his reunion with former characters in ME2 he showed at least SOME emotion, while in ME1 he acted like a robot with everyone he met.


ME1 Shepard still discusses Morality with Garrus. True that ME2 got alot more about talking regarding morality, i'll grant you that.

But Shepard still doesn't really care about any of the things that happend to him personanly (until LOTSB that is). Shepard basicly just shrugs off the whole "I've been dead for 2 years!" like it's nothing at all, he also just shrugs off the other things I mentioned as well. ME2-maingame desperatly needed a scene like the locker scene of ME1, a scene where Shepard is the one down and out.

"EDIT" Delerius_Jedi said it much better than I, ME2 really lacked such a scene. And that's my biggest grip with ME2 Shepard.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 10 novembre 2010 - 11:37 .