135 réponses à ce sujet

[Skilled Seeker]

But Shepard is a badass. This stuff doesn't affect him. His response to people saying 'I thought you were dead' is 'I got better'. What does that tell you about Shepard's psych? Shepard is not a 'feel sorry for myself' emo, if he was always doubting himself like this then he'd get nowhere.

What he has been through shouldn't make him question himself, it should make him stronger and more determined to finish what he started!

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 10 novembre 2010 - 11:40 .

[kraidy1117]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Well that we are discussing such small details about main character development shows just how great a game Bioware crafted. 99.9% of players don't give a damn and the thought probably never crossed their mind.

It's all about the shooty shooty and the pew pew.

[Skilled Seeker]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Well that we are discussing such small details about main character development shows just how great a game Bioware crafted. 99.9% of players don't give a damn and the thought probably never crossed their mind.

It's all about the shooty shooty and the pew pew.

To be honest it is for the vast majority. Us people on the forums represent the hardcore and we are a tiny minority.

[Fraevar]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

But Shepard is a badass. This stuff doesn't affect him. His response to people saying 'I thought you were dead' is 'I got better'. What does that tell you about Shepard's psych? Shepard is not a 'feel sorry for myself' emo, if he was always doubting himself like this then he'd get nowhere.

What he has been through shouldn't make him question himself, it should make him stronger and more determined to finish what he started!

But Shepard would then still be a badass with the active memory of dying to vacuum exposure. Shepard would simultaniously be choking, drowing in her own blood and having her eyeballs pop. And she would still remember that when she is resurrected. Death is not something that the military can teach you to deal with. They can prepare you for the eventuality of dying but they can't train you for living with the memory of you actually going through the experience. Basically, death is an experience that Shepard can't just shrug off, no matter how much of a badass she is, and still be a credible character. Death is too big for that.

And while Shepard might not doubt her own skillset, she might actually start to doubt whether what she's doing is even making a difference in the grand scheme of things, which is what Lair of the Shadow Broker finally let her vocalize. Shepard might know she's a capable soldier, but it won't make a difference if the Council and the others won't actually put up the fleets to help fight the Reapers because they're too busy making air-quotes.

Again - self reflection on one's situation there is entirely warranted, and it would be quite foolhardy for Shepard to not engage in it.

[cipher86]

Shepard may be a soldier, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have his own doubts or thoughts about certain things.



Maybe the reason I dislike Shepard's VA is just because Shepard never really has anything interesting to say - it's just a bunch of cliches. And no matter how good a VA is, how much can they really do with a cliche?

[DarthCaine]

cipher86 wrote...

Shepard may be a soldier, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have his own doubts or thoughts about certain things.

Maybe the reason I dislike Shepard's VA is just because Shepard never really has anything interesting to say - it's just a bunch of cliches. And no matter how good a VA is, how much can they really do with a cliche?

You've obviously never tried playing Renegade in ME2, there's tons of epic badass lines

Mass Effect 2:


Mass Effect 1:

Modifié par DarthCaine, 11 novembre 2010 - 12:21 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

But Shepard is a badass. This stuff doesn't affect him. His response to people saying 'I thought you were dead' is 'I got better'. What does that tell you about Shepard's psych? Shepard is not a 'feel sorry for myself' emo, if he was always doubting himself like this then he'd get nowhere.

What he has been through shouldn't make him question himself, it should make him stronger and more determined to finish what he started!

But Shepard would then still be a badass with the active memory of dying to vacuum exposure. Shepard would simultaniously be choking, drowing in her own blood and having her eyeballs pop. And she would still remember that when she is resurrected. Death is not something that the military can teach you to deal with. They can prepare you for the eventuality of dying but they can't train you for living with the memory of you actually going through the experience. Basically, death is an experience that Shepard can't just shrug off, no matter how much of a badass she is, and still be a credible character. Death is too big for that.

And while Shepard might not doubt her own skillset, she might actually start to doubt whether what she's doing is even making a difference in the grand scheme of things, which is what Lair of the Shadow Broker finally let her vocalize. Shepard might know she's a capable soldier, but it won't make a difference if the Council and the others won't actually put up the fleets to help fight the Reapers because they're too busy making air-quotes.

Again - self reflection on one's situation there is entirely warranted, and it would be quite foolhardy for Shepard to not engage in it.

Why doesn't Shepard cut her wrists to relieve some of the stress and test her ability to cope with pain while we're at it.

[Gibb_Shepard]

DarthCaine wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Have Shepard ponder if he truly is himself and not just clone or something else?

Like intiate a conversation with yourself ? And besides, you do discuss that with Jacob and Miranda.

I think this discussion is biased and boils down to "I prefer ME1 so ME1 Shepard is better"

No, i think your biased and it boils down to "I prefer ME2 so ME2 Shepard is better"

Although Mark Meer did a lot better job with voice acting in ME2, there were absolutely no scenes where shepard reflected on events of his life, and even talked about personal issues with others.

In ME1 there are many times, such as the locker scene, the conversation with ash, the death of kaidan/ ash etc.

Although i do admit LOTSB did the best job of character development out of both ME1 and ME2.

[DarthCaine]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

the conversation with ash, the death of kaidan/ ash etc.

lol, wut? You seem to have rose tinted glasses or something 'cos Shepard showed as much emotion over Ash/Kaidan's death as he did in the suicide mission when someone died (meaning almost none)

It's funny how everyone that says ME1 Shepard is better also thinks ME1>ME2, and I'm the biased one (when you're an outspoken hater of ME2)

Modifié par DarthCaine, 11 novembre 2010 - 12:52 .

[Fraevar]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Why doesn't Shepard cut her wrists to relieve some of the stress and test her ability to cope with pain while we're at it.

Because she still has a job to do in the end. You seem to think like I want to go straight to her being emo. I don't. But I do want some scenes that emphasises that hey, she is still human (or is she?!? that's another theme BioWare dropped the ball on) and not a brick.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...
But Shepard would then still be a badass with the active memory of dying to vacuum exposure. Shepard would simultaniously be choking, drowing in her own blood and having her eyeballs pop. And she would still remember that when she is resurrected. Death is not something that the military can teach you to deal with. They can prepare you for the eventuality of dying but they can't train you for living with the memory of you actually going through the experience. Basically, death is an experience that Shepard can't just shrug off, no matter how much of a badass she is, and still be a credible character. Death is too big for that.

And while Shepard might not doubt her own skillset, she might actually start to doubt whether what she's doing is even making a difference in the grand scheme of things, which is what Lair of the Shadow Broker finally let her vocalize. Shepard might know she's a capable soldier, but it won't make a difference if the Council and the others won't actually put up the fleets to help fight the Reapers because they're too busy making air-quotes.

Again - self reflection on one's situation there is entirely warranted, and it would be quite foolhardy for Shepard to not engage in it.

Well I suppose your Shepard is just a wuss, here is why mine is a complete badass and isn't phased by dying.

-Born on earth, parents got killed or vanished, and Shepard soon cruised the streets in the meanest gang this side of Detroit. It was like something out of The Road Warrior.

-Joined the Systems Alliance Marine Corp just in time to kick some baratian ass. Led the assault on Torfan which he was wrongly criticized for.

-Promoted to rank of special forces badass.

-Sees images of an ugly species (protheans) getting destroyed, doesn't phase Shepard.

-Slept with the consort, punched the media, and kicked ass on the citadel.

-Ancient species that has wiped out the galaxy talking smack? Well Shepard tells them to shut it and that he is going to personally kick their ass.

-Kaiden died on Virmire, but what a damn fine way to go, almost out of ammo, geth swarming around you, and a nuke goes off at your feet. Rest in peace you magnificent sonofa*****.

-Jokers incompetence got him killed. So Shepard spends two years in some sort of Valhalla-like afterlife
before Cerberus decided "this guy is too badass to only die once." Thus he is unleashed on the galaxy for more ass-kicking.

All of these things would have emo Shepard crying with Tali down in engineering. Not badass renegade Shepard however.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 11 novembre 2010 - 05:40 .

[Freakaz0idx]

Man I agree, whoever does Shepard's voice just sucks, I don't like it at all. I'd prefer if they had used the voice of Garrus or Grunt as the main the character. Just my opinion.

[KreeCapt]

I like Shep. I found him to have more of a Personality in ME 2 than in ME 1, but I think the reason why Shep is a bit of the bland side is that he/she is meant to have your own personal view projected onto he/she. Shep is a vessel not a fleshed out NPC.

[Fraevar]

Why does everyone automatically assume that asking for self-reflection options on the part of the voiced/defined main character somehow equals wanting to turn them emo? Seriously, I'm waiting to hear your logic on this. Was Shepard emo in Lair of the Shadow Broker? Is that what you're saying?

Edit: SoulRebel_1979 landed a very accurate description of the issue.

Modifié par Delerius_Jedi, 11 novembre 2010 - 02:30 .

[SoulRebel_1979]

Bioware played it safe with Shepard. There is nothing exciting about the character. You would find Shepard saving the Galaxy just as easily as you would find Shepard working at a gas station pumping your gas. No thrills type of character.

[Gibb_Shepard]

DarthCaine wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

the conversation with ash, the death of kaidan/ ash etc.

lol, wut? You seem to have rose tinted glasses or something 'cos Shepard showed as much emotion over Ash/Kaidan's death as he did in the suicide mission when someone died (meaning almost none)

It's funny how everyone that says ME1 Shepard is better also thinks ME1>ME2, and I'm the biased one (when you're an outspoken hater of ME2)

Dude...... W-T-F

I ****ing love ME2. I only critisize the things that could have made it a perfect game. You see ME2 fanatics like you take everyone who critisizes the game and put them in the "hater" group, its absolute face palm material. I'll repeat what i just said, I ****ING LOVE ME2.

You on the other hand, seem to continually say that everything in ME2 is better than in ME1, when that is just plain and simply untrue. I love both games, and both have things better than the other.

[Onyx Jaguar]

But everything in ME2 is better than in ME1

[jlb524]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

But everything in ME2 is better than in ME1

no

[Onyx Jaguar]

But it has two discs

[Destroy Raiden_]

Voice Talent Director, " Fshep great work!...um Mshep, one more time with feeling!"

I liked his portrayal in SB with squad banter and Liara's hacking the door screen and I also liked his line of, " How many more do I have to loose?"

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 11 novembre 2010 - 04:00 .

[jlb524]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Voice Talent Director, " Fshep great work!...um Mshep, one more time with feeling!"

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

But it has two discs

My ME2 only had one.

Modifié par jlb524, 11 novembre 2010 - 03:59 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...
But Shepard would then still be a badass with the active memory of dying to vacuum exposure. Shepard would simultaniously be choking, drowing in her own blood and having her eyeballs pop. And she would still remember that when she is resurrected. Death is not something that the military can teach you to deal with. They can prepare you for the eventuality of dying but they can't train you for living with the memory of you actually going through the experience. Basically, death is an experience that Shepard can't just shrug off, no matter how much of a badass she is, and still be a credible character. Death is too big for that.

And while Shepard might not doubt her own skillset, she might actually start to doubt whether what she's doing is even making a difference in the grand scheme of things, which is what Lair of the Shadow Broker finally let her vocalize. Shepard might know she's a capable soldier, but it won't make a difference if the Council and the others won't actually put up the fleets to help fight the Reapers because they're too busy making air-quotes.

Again - self reflection on one's situation there is entirely warranted, and it would be quite foolhardy for Shepard to not engage in it.

^ That I'm sorry dieing = trauma he/she really died no amount of training is going to get you right over that especially sense shep had zero time to digest the idea first day alive go to work not an easy  thing. The phantom pains associated with being suffocated and your blood boiling would stay with Shep for life and when exposed to say loud noises or total darkness would trigger these things beyond shpes control. With near death experiences its tough to get over some depending on what almost killed them never do now imaging just plan dying.

[ScooterPie88]

I like Shepard; he fits well into the hero archetype.  Shepard is one of my favorite video game protaginists.  One of  my other favorites is Halo's Master Chief.  I like the two because they are very similar if one thinks about it.  Career soldiers, good leaders but also follow orders, cybernetically altered (during ME2).  Both have armor, both put themselves ahead of the mission, both face galaxy threatening threats, both have an eccentric AI on their side.  I could go on but I digress.  I will say that both inspire me to be a better person (sounds chessy and maybe a little extreme but it's the truth).

Modifié par ScooterPie88, 11 novembre 2010 - 05:17 .

[Stokely]

Badass not-really-emotional Shepard is much better from the role-playing standpoint, I think.
Just see how different people describe their shepards, their motives and feelings - there is an incredible lot of variety. That's because the "tough soldier who is not likely to show emotions" side of Shepard's character is pretty much pre-defined, but there is enough small touches here and there to show that s/he actually has emotions. And it's up to player to define what they are. Some moments like LoTSB dialogue with Liara are really nice, but going into this territory further can result in completely losing the feeling of the character being our own (to some extent). The last thing I want to see is my Shepard openly reflecting upon herself in a way she was totally not supposed to be.

Modifié par Stokely, 11 novembre 2010 - 05:33 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

I hate it when people insist on Shepard being a stereotypical poker-faced soldier with zero self-awareness or depth. Because that's what most of the anti-development people here are arguing for. To say that giving Shepard more personal development in the game outside of the romances would make him emo or non-badass is just... no. Grow up, people.



ME1 did a satisfactory job of giving Shepard depth, and he still managed to come off as a badass with epic one-liners and great speeches. Our problem with Mass Effect 2 is that Bioware scaled back that development and avoided it in places where it would have greatly helped define Shepard. I would LOVE to hear Ashley have a discussion with Shepard about the mortality of organics vs the immortality of the Reapers, the meaning of the universe, and whether their actions would be remembered 1000 years from when they die.

That's the sort of thing that would build and define Shepard as a character. Not showing him curled up on his couch and shivering, but rather some deep, defining moment that the player has control over which can help to either develop/define the character or reinforce his/her badassery (by sneering at the person when asked about his thoughts on his own resurrection, for example).



Anyways, lay off on the "character development = emo!!!" argument, guys. That doesn't make any sense.