77 réponses à ce sujet

[Tony Gunslinger]

Yes, it does cross the line. A Vanguard with pull and warp makes the Adept obsolete. An Infiltrator with Overload and Incinerate makes the Engineer obsolete. A Batman who can fly and uses an uber ring makes the Superman and Green Lantern classes obsolete.

I have no problem with talking about our ideal builds and modding because it is fun. Here's mine: Tech Armor+ Cryo Ammo + Warp + Energy Drain. I just don't think making it legit is going to make it a good game.

[RGFrog]

My point, Bozorgmehr, in regards to the Vanguard, is that of all the "classes" it is the one that is most obviously supposed to be a one man army. The class is built around shep charging into the thick of things and dealing death alone.

On Normal, the mode BW has often claimed is the intended gameplay mode, the Vanguard has absolutely no need for a sqaud. The playstyle of the vangaurd makes it pretty clear that a squad, concern for a squad, responsibilities around commanding a squad would only be a hindrance to the the vanguard.

So, since we're making up things, then i say for a vanguard, the squad should be left on the SR2 and the vanguard should have seperate cooldowns for every power to better facilitate the one man berserker army that is the vanguard myth.

[The Spamming Troll]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Yes, it does cross the line. A Vanguard with pull and warp makes the Adept obsolete. An Infiltrator with Overload and Incinerate makes the Engineer obsolete. A Batman who can fly and uses an uber ring makes the Superman and Green Lantern classes obsolete.

I have no problem with talking about our ideal builds and modding because it is fun. Here's mine: Tech Armor+ Cryo Ammo + Warp + Energy Drain. I just don't think making it legit is going to make it a good game.

a pull/warp vangaurd wakes the adept obsolete? not even close hombre. the adept *would* have stasis and singularity as well as pull and warp. thats absurd saying combining pull and warp completely whipes out the adept class. im assuming theres going to be a few more or different abilities in ME3, and most of the abilities probably wont be exactly the same as they are in ME2. meaning the adept may very well have the better biotics, while the vangaurd gets stuck with just shockwave. this is just a thread to post your ideas of what you think, for example, would be a cool combo of a half biotic, half soldier, aka the vangaurd. instead of playing a vangaurd thats not very different then the rest of the worlds vangaurd. its almost like you dont want variety, you just want what your given.

your ideal class isnt any better or any worse then the regular sentinel class. look at kronners sentinel, its a build that fits his playstyle thats within the limits of being a sentinel. i just dont see anything wrong with it, like you do.

superman can do everything batman can do, and most liekly anything the green lantern could conjure up. batman would need alot more then the capability of flight and a ring that makes pancakes and giant lolipops. even tho batman rules, superman is the king of kings when it comes to superheros.(i like this little argument were having)

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 14 novembre 2010 - 02:52 .

[kstarler]

I do not mean this in any negative way, but is this really the correct forum for this type of discussion? It seems like it should go in the same area as the ME2 disappointment/ME3 suggestion stuff.

Anyway, back on topic, I want  the following skillset:

4 Hardened Adrenaline Rush
4 Assault Armor
4 Inferno Ammo
4 Commando
4 Area Reave
1 Stasis

I should also be able to use the Revenant, the Widow, and the Claymore simultaneously. If we're going the Oblivion/Fallout route, why can't I have the ultimate uber hunter killer of all that is merc or reaper? After all, it's playing the game my way, right?

On second thought, can I get a Cain with 10,000% ammo, so I never need to use any other weapon or class skill? /sarcasm

Maybe we should stick with the balance that BioWare has provided, and come up with ways to make the couple of skills that aren't useful better. It seems like that would be a far more productive discussion than one about turning Shepard into Superman.

Modifié par kstarler, 14 novembre 2010 - 03:44 .

[The Spamming Troll]

kstarler wrote...

I do not mean this in any negative way, but is this really the correct forum for this type of discussion? It seems like it should go in the same area as the ME2 disappointment/ME3 suggestion stuff.

Anyway, back on topic, I want  the following skillset:

4 Hardened Adrenaline Rush
4 Assault Armor
4 Inferno Ammo
4 Commando
4 Area Reave
1 Stasis

I should also be able to use the Revenant, the Widow, and the Claymore simultaneously. If we're going the Oblivion/Fallout route, why can't I have the ultimate uber hunter killer of all that is merc or reaper? After all, it's playing the game my way, right?

On second thought, can I get a Cain with 10,000% ammo, so I never need to use any other weapon or class skill? /sarcasm

Maybe we should stick with the balance that BioWare has provided, and come up with ways to make the couple of skills that aren't useful better. It seems like that would be a far more productive discussion than one about turning Shepard into Superman.

something has been lost in translation. read the first post on this topic.

you obviously missed the point of this thread, as did bozo and gunslinger. this isnt a discusion about making a build with everything. were talking about making a build like the vangaurd, with a different skill set other then the one bioware offered us.

read. the. first. post.

i feel like im dealing with 9 year olds here.

or am i?
:sick::sick::sick::sick::sick:pukeface

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 14 novembre 2010 - 04:40 .

[lazuli]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

something has been lost in translation. read the first post on this topic.

you obviously missed the point of this thread, as did bozo and gunslinger. this isnt a discusion about making a build with everything. were talking about making a build like the vangaurd, with a different skill set other then the one bioware offered us.

read. the. first. post.

i feel like im dealing with 9 year olds here.

or am i?
:sick::sick::sick::sick::sick:pukeface

Regardless of what you said on the first post, you have contributed to the thread heading in this direction.  I respect that you want more powerful builds.  In turn, I ask that you please respect that other people like having builds with some weak spots.  And please respect that other people have different ideas about how games should be balanced.

[kstarler]

I. Read. The. First. Post.

The Spaming Troll Wrote...

meaning forget the preset abilities that each class starts with and come up with your own version of a "vangaurd."

Also, I believe 9 year-olds don't know how to capitalize properly. Hmm...

Now to the point. Using the logic that you have expressed in this thread and elsewhere, why should "you" be the one to set an arbitrary limit on "my" Vanguard? After all, you aren't too keen that BioWare set an arbitrary limit on "your" Vanguard. If we're talking about personal taste and preference, then why should your preference affect mine in any way?

I feel like I'm in an argument clinic with John Cleese, and all he can do is immediately gainsay everything that I say, in the most infantile manner possible, with no argument or opinion offered as a counter.

"No, you aren't."

Anyway, no more feeding the troll.

Modifié par kstarler, 14 novembre 2010 - 05:01 .

[The Spamming Troll]

lazuli wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

something has been lost in translation. read the first post on this topic.

you obviously missed the point of this thread, as did bozo and gunslinger. this isnt a discusion about making a build with everything. were talking about making a build like the vangaurd, with a different skill set other then the one bioware offered us.

read. the. first. post.

i feel like im dealing with 9 year olds here.

or am i?
:sick::sick::sick::sick::sick:pukeface

Regardless of what you said on the first post, you have contributed to the thread heading in this direction.  I respect that you want more powerful builds.  In turn, I ask that you please respect that other people like having builds with some weak spots.  And please respect that other people have different ideas about how games should be balanced.

no, actually im trying to stop people from talking about making uber-everything buids. point out to me what your referring too. im sure we all have different ideas about balanceing gameplay. but wihtin ME, this topic doesnt have anything to do with being out of balance. atleast in my opinion, which is what your reffering to, opinions.

kstarler wrote...

I. Read. The. First. Post.

The Spaming Troll Wrote...

meaning forget the preset abilities that each class starts with and come up with your own version of a "vangaurd."

Also, I believe 9 year-olds don't know how to capitalize properly. Hmm...

Now
to the point. Using the logic that you have expressed in this thread
and elsewhere, why should "you" be the one to set an arbitrary limit on
"my" Vanguard? After all, you aren't too keen that BioWare set an
arbitrary limit on "your" Vanguard. If we're talking about personal
taste and preference, then why should your preference affect mine in any
way?

I feel like I'm in an argument clinic with John Cleese, and
all he can do is immediately gainsay everything that I say, in the most
infantile manner possible, with no argument or opinion offered as a
counter.

"No, you aren't." [smilie]../../../../images/forum/emoticons/sick.png[/smilie]

Anyway, no more feeding the troll.

here is also something i wrote in that first post.

i dont want to limit anything here but to a certain degree ill
categorize some things. theres just a few things that i think need to be
limited.....
......maybe someone can add more to the specifics of what each class should be "allowed"

still, as much as id like to point out how very wrong you are, its not worth my time. enjoy the rest of the forum! sorry, "Enjoy the rest of the forum!"

[kstarler]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

here is also something i wrote in that first post.

i dont want to limit anything here but to a certain degree ill
categorize some things. theres just a few things that i think need to be
limited.....
......maybe someone can add more to the specifics of what each class should be "allowed"

still, as much as id like to point out how very wrong you are, its not worth my time. enjoy the rest of the forum! sorry, "Enjoy the rest of the forum!"

Ah, the old, "I don't want to do this, but I want to do it anyway." It works wonders for pointing out my basic point, which is unless there is some arbitrary limitation to a given class, you will invariably have an abuse of the class system. This will lead many people, myself included, to lose interest in the game. And, while you did endeavor to put some limits in the initial posting, it eats away at your core premise, which is, "Why should my [insert class] resemble yours in any way, shape, or form, if I don't want it to?"

I believe it is in BioWare's best interested to maintain the limits that they have set upon the classes and bonus abilities, so that gamers like myself and, I believe, the vast majority of those who play ME2, will remain interested in the franchise. Now remember, it's not worth your time to point out why I'm wrong. Just throwing it out there so you can remain consistent, as always.

[The Spamming Troll]

kstarler wrote...

Anyway, no more feeding the troll.

sorry, im already full.

[Kurt M.]

My favourite class is:



- Vanguard (lvl 30).

- Inferno ammo.

- 1-pt. Pull.

- Heavy Charge.

- Heavy Shockwave.

- Heavy Slam.

- Sniper Rifle specialization.

- Champion.

[Sparrow44]

Vanguards with Warp wouldn't really make them more overpowered than they really are, I agree that Vanguards can take of situations on their own which is why they have additional weapon training and ammo powers, for me a VG with Shotguns and Assault Rifles w/ Charge, Inferno and Cryo Ammo is enough for an aggressive playstyle, putting points in Shockwave and Pull and a bonus power like Stasis, gives them CC utility.



Considering VG's are capable without those last three powers, then there's really no point in trying to argue that they NEED Warp. As others have said, if you need Warp with your Vanguard then take Miranda or Thane, thats why the game puts you with squaddies.

[Kurt M.]

I agree. I once created a Soldier, but I stopped playing with him as soon as my Vanguard got his hands into Sniper rifle training. Vanguards are easily one of (or the most) versatile class.

[Kronner]

Wasn't this supposed to be "I wish I had these talents on XYZ class" thread? Why do people list their favourite builds with default powers?

Modifié par Kronner, 14 novembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[RGFrog]

I'd like to see, in general, shorter cooldowns for class specific powers. And alternately longer cooldowns for non-class abilities.

For instance, an adept using an omni-tool powered tech abillity would see 3 to 6 times the cooldown while a mixed class like sentinel would see normal cooldown on tech abilities and a tech specialist would have 1/2 or even 1/4 of the normal cooldown (or compared to a combo class like the sentinel).

A class like soldier would have normal cooldowns (like a sentinel) for tech/omnitool powers but would see a 2-3x cooldown for biotics.

Speicialized classes like Adepts or Engineers, while receiving greatly reduced cooldowns on their class abilities would see even more pronounced cooldowns on non-class functions at the order of 3x to 6x when compaired to a Sentinel. In addition, ammo powers would have reduced function for these classes. Except for Warp ammo, which would have a bit more punch for Adepts, Normal for Sentinels, and less for non-biotics.

Inferno/Cryo ammo would have more kick for Engineers, normal bonus for Sentinel, and reduced effect for Soldier.

All classes would benefit equally from non-tech ammo powers like AP or Shredder ammo.

A Vanguard wouldn't have Warp as a power. It just doesn't fit with the all out play style. However, being an adept the Vanguard would get the bonus upgrade to warp ammo. But, a vanguard would have more kick when using throw, pull, shockwave. Not as much as an adept, but more than a sentinel would have.

In essence, the Sentinel should be the mid class. It doesn't do anything as well as the other classes, but it uses everything equally well and is the best all-around class.

An adept should be the best user of all things biotic, but wouldn't get as much function from ammo powers as a Vanguard that would naturally rely more on combining weapons with biotics.

A soldier is already baddass with it's current set and should be bolstered like at sentinel level with omnitool based powers, but severely hindered with biotic based powers when compaired to an Adept.

An Engineer should be the master of all things tech/omnitool and severely limited by anything biotic (including warp ammo).

Cooldowns should also reflect this with Sentinel getting the mid range. Engineer should then get the shortest cooldowns for tech and adept the shortest colldowns for biotics. Between those extremes would be Soldier on the tech side and Vanguard on the biotic side.

Soldier would still be the easiest to play the game with as it's simply a juggernaut with the weapons an it's class ability. Sentinel would be the best all around choice for those that want to mix up the skill sets. Vanguard would be the best for those that want to lone gun it and rush into every situation relying on biotics as its only help. Adept and Engineer would be the specialist classes with the best class based cooldowns and power combos but more reliance on squadmates to fill out blind spots in their abilites.

The all around best squad would be a soldier shep, a tech spec. and an adept spec. An all adept squad would have a harder time against a tech heavy group of targets and an all out Tech squad would be similarly handicapped against a biotic heavy group.

The Soldier and Vanguard are essentially the same powerhouses on either side of the Sentinel with soldier being better equipped via tech and Vanguard being better equipped via biotics.

Then there should just be a pool of powers that you choose from based on your class. No prerequisites to get to other powers.

Each class would get 7 power slots. 4 class specific. 2 bonus. 1 class slot.

Cross class abilities would only show up in bonus locations. The class slot would upgrade on its own maxing out around the middle of the game with the choice of either currently existing specialty.

Point system would stay the same so you could max out 5 powers with one point in the 6th.

[The Spamming Troll]

Kronner wrote...

Wasn't this supposed to be "I wish I had these talents on XYZ class" thread? Why do people list their favourite builds with default powers?

correct sir. ive gotten more posts about soldiers with singularity, drone and charge, then infiltrators with cryo instead of incinerate. even when i inform them thats not what this thread is for, i get into an argument about why an a classless system is stupid, which has nothing to do with this topic. i honestly dont know whats going on.

thers also alot of talk about being OP or unbalanced by creating a vangaurd of your own. which i couldnt disagree with more. if anyone here can make an OP build along the general ideas i put fourth in this thread, id love to see an example.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 14 novembre 2010 - 07:09 .

[The Spamming Troll]

RGFrog,

you fit way too many ideas into that post! i cant even grasp what youve all covered with my tiny little brain. i dont think adding cooldown time to the abilities that arent the class specific power would be a good thing. we already spam our signature powers far too much as it is. i liked the idea i think you had about making powers that synergise more with the signature abilities of each class tho. itd be hard to have more then probably one ability that benefited from using charge but its a step in the right direction. anything that makes me do more then just charge with the vangaurd is a good thing. which is why i always add stasis to my vangaurd because it makes me want to CC as well as charge.

i think something bioware really needs to implement for the consoles are mapable buttons for the controller. i rarely am using more then three active abilities because ive only got three hothey buttons on the controller. while im dreaming here i hope they bring back overheating weapons and crouching as well.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 14 novembre 2010 - 07:10 .

[RGFrog]

lol, yeah, it was a pretty long post. Didn't notice it until after I'd hit the submit button and it filled my browser window.

[Tony Gunslinger]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

a pull/warp vangaurd wakes the adept obsolete? not even close hombre. the adept *would* have stasis and singularity as well as pull and warp. thats absurd saying combining pull and warp completely whipes out the adept class...

Wait, you had to add Stasis to the Adept just to say it'll be comparable to a pull/warp Vanguard? Do I need to explain this in detail for you?

...its almost like you dont want variety, you just want what your given.

It's almost like you demand an already pretty much balanced game to change in order to suit your personal preferences, even if it breaks game balance. You may not intend to break the game, but your act like you do. As I've said before, it's fine to mod and play whatever for yourself, but to make it so that anyone can do it makes the game boring. Have you ever hacked a game to play exactly what you wanted and realized it gets really boring? That's the effect of breaking the game. Perhaps you really should play a few more modded games under your belt to see what I'm talking about.

ME2 isn't perfect and it has things to improve, and I have proposed ideas in the past. Charge and Shockwave should deal damage to barriers. Warp Ammo should deal extra damage to those affected by ALL biotic powers like it says so. Those are a few of my examples. Does it break the game? Perhaps, perhaps not. People have commented on that and I have considered those possibilities. I have played every single classes at least half a dozen times with different builds and weapon setups on, so I am pretty damn unbiased about every single weapon, and every single power in this game. When I say something, it is from experience and not theory crafting.

But you keep on justifying everything you say, with no consideration to the consequences of the game system. Anything you change can potentially affect every other aspect of the game, and I have yet seen you demonstrate that kind of awareness and respect those who disagree. And I can tell that the most biased people are also the ones who understand the game the least because I was once like that too. But enough, I've said more than needed.

your ideal class isnt any better or any worse then the regular sentinel class. look at kronners sentinel, its a build that fits his playstyle thats within the limits of being a sentinel. i just dont see anything wrong with it, like you do.

Oh come on don't be like that, at least you can say something nice about this. A simple addition of Cyro Ammo to the Sentinel makes the classes unbelievably OP. If you don't see it, I am more than willing to explain in great detail to you.

superman can do everything batman can do, and most liekly anything the green lantern could conjure up. batman would need alot more then the capability of flight and a ring that makes pancakes and giant lolipops. even tho batman rules, superman is the king of kings when it comes to superheros.(i like this little argument were having)

I like this argument as well. Superman has his kryptonite, Green Lantern is powerless if the main lantern is destroyed or taken over, Batman is augmented by gadgets. Each class have their own strengths and weaknesses. The Batman in your game would have the weaknesses of neither, making the other two obsolete in the game.

What you’re talking about is who is more powerful, completely not the point of the comparison. What I’m talking about is why should I bother picking to play Superman or Green Lantern in this game if the Super-Lantern-Batman class can do most of the other classes combined without their weaknesses. And no, Bruce Wayne is human, so kryptonite doesn’t affect him. If the main lantern is disabled, Batman still have his gadgets and combat training to fall back on. Green Lantern and Superman are not trained in those fields.

Modifié par Tony Gunslinger, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:18 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

a pull/warp vangaurd wakes the adept obsolete? not even close hombre. the adept *would* have stasis and singularity as well as pull and warp. thats absurd saying combining pull and warp completely whipes out the adept class...

Wait, you had to add Stasis to the Adept just to say it'll be comparable to a pull/warp Vanguard? Do I need to explain this in detail for you?

...its almost like you dont want variety, you just want what your given.

It's almost like you demand an already pretty much balanced game to change in order to suit your personal preferences, even if it breaks game balance. You may not intend to break the game, but your act like you do. As I've said before, it's fine to mod and play whatever for yourself, but to make it so that anyone can do it makes the game boring. Have you ever hacked a game to play exactly what you wanted and realized it gets really boring? That's the effect of breaking the game. Perhaps you really should play a few more modded games under your belt to see what I'm talking about.

ME2 isn't perfect and it has things to improve, and I have proposed ideas in the past. Charge and Shockwave should deal damage to barriers. Warp Ammo should deal extra damage to those affected by ALL biotic powers like it says so. Those are a few of my examples. Does it break the game? Perhaps, perhaps not. People have commented on that and I have considered those possibilities. I have played every single classes at least half a dozen times with different builds and weapon setups on, so I am pretty damn unbiased about every single weapon, and every single power in this game. When I say something, it is from experience and not theory crafting.

But you keep on justifying everything you say, with no consideration to the consequences of the game system. Anything you change can potentially affect every other aspect of the game, and I have yet seen you demonstrate that kind of awareness and respect those who disagree. And I can tell that the most biased people are also the ones who understand the game the least because I was once like that too. But enough, I've said more than needed.

your ideal class isnt any better or any worse then the regular sentinel class. look at kronners sentinel, its a build that fits his playstyle thats within the limits of being a sentinel. i just dont see anything wrong with it, like you do.

Oh come on don't be like that, at least you can say something nice about this. A simple addition of Cyro Ammo to the Sentinel makes the classes unbelievably OP. If you don't see it, I am more than willing to explain in great detail to you.

superman can do everything batman can do, and most liekly anything the green lantern could conjure up. batman would need alot more then the capability of flight and a ring that makes pancakes and giant lolipops. even tho batman rules, superman is the king of kings when it comes to superheros.(i like this little argument were having)

I like this argument as well. Superman has his kryptonite, Green Lantern is powerless if the main lantern is destroyed or taken over, Batman is augmented by gadgets. Each class have their own strengths and weaknesses. The Batman in your game would have the weaknesses of neither, making the other two obsolete in the game.

What you’re talking about is who is more powerful, completely not the point of the comparison. What I’m talking about is why should I bother picking to play Superman or Green Lantern in this game if the Super-Lantern-Batman class can do most of the other classes combined without their weaknesses. And no, Bruce Wayne is human, so kryptonite doesn’t affect him. If the main lantern is disabled, Batman still have his gadgets and combat training to fall back on. Green Lantern and Superman are not trained in those fields.

yes, youll need to explain why a pull/warp vangaurd negates the point of playing as an adept.

ive never modded a game before, i havent even modded ME2 yet. but ive never played a game that changed so much between the first and the second in the series.

oh, so you play the game alot? and you think your better then me at ME? and you think you have a better understanding of what ME is and what it isnt? congrats! ive played mass effect alot too. thats why im starting this topic, because i think this aspect of the game can be improved, significantly.

i dont think cryo ammo on a sentinel would be OP at all. i know itd be fun though. i just dont see what you call negetive consequences to playing a sentinel with a few different biotics or a few different techs. would you be happier if i ssaid "cryo ammo is only available to soldier, vangaurd, and infiltrator." would that makes things easier for you to understand where im comming from? again, explain away!

on the batman/superman thing......your telling me a pull/warp vangaurd has no weaknesses? if i just swapped pull for throw on a sentinel, would i still not have weaknesses. how is that setup a superman/batman/green lantern? how is that build not simply just another vangaurd? please show me a superman/batman/green lantern vangaurd. id LOVE to see where your comming from. i just dont see where your getting this idea that a class without predifened abilities is creating a do-all build. each class will always need another class to compensate for its weaknesses. maybe bioware will implement 4 more sepereate layers of enemy defense!

personally i think your blinded by your past. as much as i hate the horrible decision to add enemy protections on higher difficulties in order to challenge the player, i still have alot of faith in what bioware can do with ME3. we both know bioware is very good at makeing video games, and i have no reason to beleive a pull/warp vangaurd would throw the entire game out of control.

........i dont even know what i all just wrote there.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Here are the stats of your Vanguard
- Inferno Ammo (damages armor/health, sets enemies on fire, splash damage)
- Charge (teleport to nearest enemy, knock down, and regen defense)
-  Pull (CC power, sets up warp detonate)
- Warp (damages armor/barriers/health, finishes warp detonate)
- SMG + Pistols
- Shotgun already available (massive damage to shield/barriers)
- Bonus weapon, option to upgrade to Claymore

Here are the stats of the stock Adept
- Warp (damages armor and barriers , finishes warp detonate)
- Singularity (CC power, slow to travel, minimal damage)
- Pull (CC power, sets up warp detonate)
- Throw (CC power, no damage to defense)
- Shockwave (CC power, no damage to defense), or Bonus power of your choice (you recommend Stasis, another CC power)
- SMG + Pistols
- Bonus weapon, no special SR/AR/SGs available

The Adept has only one power to deal any real damage vs defense while the others are CC. Your Vanguard's powers and weaponry deals massive damage to armor, health, shields, barriers. The Adept can warp-detonate, but your Vanguard to also do the same thing plus more. Even if you did add Stasis (a bonus power your Vanguard can get as well) it won't change the fact that you've robbed the unique quality of the Adept. If still you don't see it, then I give up.

You said you didn't get why BW setup characters this way, I went out of my way to give you reasons, and if you don't agree with them, fine. But don't add things like "get a clue" at the end of your sentences. Even if I'm a total newbie and I'm dead wrong, show some respect to your fellow members as I have initially tried to do for you.

[The Spamming Troll]

so your saying the adepts only quantifiable attribute is warp explosions? without warp explosions an adepts just a poor mans vanguard? its like your dismissing singularity all together, just because the vanguard has pull. the adept can have singularity AND stasis, the two best CC abilities in the game, by a very very wide margin. if a vanguard can do all those things youve mentioned while an adept can only warp-splode, then wouldnt the vanguard already be unbalanced?

alot of this argument has to do with difficulty levels. palying hardcore and lower, you dont need much more then pull to get your CCing done. but harcore and insanity are a whole new ballgame.

sure you might think you have your reasons, as i have mine. you really shouldnt even be trying to change my mind here. ill never be in agreement that an adept can only and will only ever be a throw, pull, shockwave, warp, and singularity build. .....when there are so many other options that an adept "could" be. i dream of an ME3 where an adept can be an actual biotic specialist, and more importantly, a class that can take out enemies without the use of weapons.

sorry if ive seemed rude. im very sarcastic and it doesnt work in word format sometimes. also, very frustrated.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 16 novembre 2010 - 05:31 .

[The Spamming Troll]

im surprised i havent seen more people posting in here what theyve modded their sheaprds into? im interested in how their own restraint has worked since bioware put it out there that you can easily mod the game, even consoles.

[lazuli]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

the adept can have singularity AND stasis, the two best CC abilities in the game, by a very very wide margin.

You're forgetting the king of CC.  Oh, and the queen.

[Kronner]

IMHO adding Warp to a Vanguard would not make it OP.

The Warp cooldown is way too long, and the projectile travels. You can already do Warp bombs much more efficiently if you use your teammates + Slam to set up or (Area) Reave to strip defense(s). I'd not take Warp, because it would add nothing ov value to me.


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How about dividing biotics and tech to 2 categories:

Basic - Throw, Pull, Shockwave, Slam, Barrier; Overload, GSB, Cryo Blast, AI Hacking
Advanced - Reave, Dominate, Warp, Stasis; Neural Shock, Energy Drain, Incinerate

Adept and Engineer get default cooldown for both (maybe some bonus to basic skills) categories, while Sentinel, Vanguard and Infiltrator get default cooldown for basic category and some penalty for advanced (let's say 20% or 25% longer cooldown AND 10-15% less power damage) category.

-class exclusive powers are in special category and they are unafffected by the aforementioned penalties and/or bonuses.
-class Passive powers (maxed) further improve:
Adept/Engineer = cooldowns 20% and power damage 15%, health 15%
Soldier = weapon damage 30%, health 30%
Vanguard/Infiltrator = weapon damage 15%, cooldown 10% and power damage 5%, health 20%
Sentinel = weapons 5%, power damage 15% and cooldowns 10%, health 20%


-Soldier can't use any special skills, only combat skills. Soldier is already easiest to play and arguably the most OP class (though at the moment Sentinel is even more OP imho).

-Only Adept/Vanguard/Sentinel can use biotics
-Only Engineer/Infiltrator/Setninel can use tech powers

This will ensure that:

-Soldier is the best weapon specialist (highest damage, access to all weapons)
-Adept/Engineer is the best biotic/tech no matter what, but get no special weapons and no weapon damage bonuses.
-Vanguard/Infiltrator does not have as much biotic/tech power as Adept/Engineer, but has better weapons (Shotgun/SR from start and higher damage) training.
-Sentinel has access to all powers, but has penalties for using advanced powers and is less prolific with weapons. True Jack of all Trades, master of none.

Modifié par Kronner, 16 novembre 2010 - 09:24 .