138 réponses à ce sujet

[Xewaka]

You said it yourself. We've seen it on NPCs (and it looked good). We haven't seen it yet on PCs.

[In Exile]

Aermas wrote...

What kind of backwards logic is this? Magic didn't hinder technological advancement. Our old world had it's "magic" Roman soldiers would preform "spells" before battle, it didn't make them shirk wearing armor.

If they weren't unleashing fire from the sky, making their soliders twice as fast, or anything of the sort...

That being said, there's no reason not to assume that technology wouldn't age with magic, but you can't parallel BS with real working magic.

[Ziggeh]

filetemo wrote...

wait a second

is people questioning the need of armor in a medieval fantasy game?

really?

Like most things here I think you have a few different positions finding themselves under one umbrella.

Aermas specifically (but maybe a few others) seems to know a good deal about actual weapons and armour, and is concerned with the realism of facing an axe wielding enemy while wearing lingerie. Personally I think that his position is at odds with certain gameplay and storytelling concerns, but then my knowledge of arms and armour comes almost exclusively from fiction. I can imagine the more you know, the more immersion breaking blatant fantasy can be.

Then you have the role players, people who would prefer as much of a blank slate as possible, in order that they might apply their own imagination onto the characters and story. Despite seeing that as a limiting thing storytelling perspective (not limiting the story itself, obviously, but limiting to the storyteller), I can understand the desire for such a game, as there have been very few, if any in recent years. For them, any imposed characteristics aren't condusive to their approach.

There's the "hardcore rpg'ers", though I think it's been established that this is a poor and vague term. For them the trappings, potentials and flaws of the "classical rpg" (something for which there is little concensus) are all important parts of the feel and experience, and to remove any of them is to take parts out of the Jenga puzzle: It's only a matter of time until youre' playing a glorified flash game on the Wii. Again, I while I understand this position and the dearth of such games, I don't hold any attachment to such games and tend to see outdated and/or obtuse mechanics when I look at them.

Then of course you have people who are just pedantic. This is a camp in which I often like to pitch my Tent of Increased Smugness and False Sense of Self Worth, so it's really not one I can go about condemning people for. (Should that be "self worth" or "selfworth"?)

I think there's a certain amount of "I FEAR CHANGE, CHANGE IS BAD, THIS IS A SLAP IN THE FACE", but probably far less than we imagine. I do feel there is slightly more of the langauge I associate with this than is helpful coming from the other groups I mentioned, because I think they're valid and important discussions which all too often get bogged down in the usual forum fracas.

[AnimaTempli101]

I can't see the problem.



Hawke has armor, he has that spiky suff and I'm gssing his shirt is leather.



Bethany has armor, she has her chainmail apron and she's a mage anyway, she can burn enemies to a cinder with a thought.



Carver? That one I'll give you.



Varric is a long range fighter, and anyway he has a nice looking leather overcoat. Probably help, a bit.



Isabella is a pirate, expected to fight while being thrown about on the waves, armor doesn't help when you've been thrown on your back by the motion of the ship, you'd experience what the French nobility experienced at Azincourt.

[Aermas]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Bethany has armor, she has her chainmail apron and she's a mage anyway, she can burn enemies to a cinder with a thought.


Varric is a long range fighter, and anyway he has a nice looking leather overcoat. Probably help, a bit.

Isabella is a pirate, expected to fight while being thrown about on the waves, armor doesn't help when you've been thrown on your back by the motion of the ship, you'd experience what the French nobility experienced at Azincourt.

Bethany is a great example of mage's with a touch of armor, but she will soon lose her chain-apron for a green robe.

Varric- Leather clothes =/= leather armor

I've posted too many reasons for Isabela to wear armor

[Wulfram]

Carver and Aveline are the ones causing concern really. They're both fighters, they're both armourless as far as we've seen.

[AlexXIV]

Well I never said that not using armor makes sense. I just said the way it is handled in Origins or other RPGs isn't realistic either. You would always wear what is proper for the occation. But my point was it is a game, so you don't have to take it so serious. The advantage is, your characters look more unique, they wear 'tailor made' outfits only they wear. I like that more than some generic armor that 100 other npcs also wear.

[AlexXIV]

Wulfram wrote...

Carver and Aveline are the ones causing concern really. They're both fighters, they're both armourless as far as we've seen.

I think they were sort of surprised. Or Bioware simply didn't feel like making armor extra for the time before they arrive in Kirkwall. Or both are only prologue charachters and that's why Bioware didn't put alot of effort in the design of their armor. Or ... it wasn't ready so they used some default npc armor for the demo.

[Archereon]

In Exile wrote...

Aermas wrote...

What kind of backwards logic is this? Magic didn't hinder technological advancement. Our old world had it's "magic" Roman soldiers would preform "spells" before battle, it didn't make them shirk wearing armor.

If they weren't unleashing fire from the sky, making their soliders twice as fast, or anything of the sort...

That being said, there's no reason not to assume that technology wouldn't age with magic, but you can't parallel BS with real working magic.

That argument is kind of flawed because not everyone can use magic.  On the other hand, almost everyone can be trained to use a gun, in a period of less than 3 weeks (remember, in those days, accuracy was so bad with firearms that it was easier to just teach them how to point and shoot, since you don't have to teach them marksmanship, its not much of a problem.)

[Boombox]

Wulfram wrote...

Carver and Aveline are the ones causing concern really. They're both fighters, they're both armourless as far as we've seen.

Yeah I agree. I can live with Mages or Rogues having little or no armour but Warriors need something. Hopefully if either Aveline or Carver stick around they'll get something other than those rags they're sporting.

Modifié par Boombox, 12 novembre 2010 - 08:22 .

[In Exile]

Archereon wrote...
That argument is kind of flawed because not everyone can use magic.  On the other hand, almost everyone can be trained to use a gun, in a period of less than 3 weeks (remember, in those days, accuracy was so bad with firearms that it was easier to just teach them how to point and shoot, since you don't have to teach them marksmanship, its not much of a problem.)

But magic can solve all kinds of problems that technology can. Why research explosive devices when you can already create explosions? We can't predict how magic will influence research, and the sort of ways peopel will use magic to augment existing technology.

Since weapons can be magically enhanced, why would researchers look to develop new forms of projectile weapons instead of refine ways to magically enhance them?

[AlexXIV]

In Exile wrote...

Archereon wrote...
That argument is kind of flawed because not everyone can use magic.  On the other hand, almost everyone can be trained to use a gun, in a period of less than 3 weeks (remember, in those days, accuracy was so bad with firearms that it was easier to just teach them how to point and shoot, since you don't have to teach them marksmanship, its not much of a problem.)

But magic can solve all kinds of problems that technology can. Why research explosive devices when you can already create explosions? We can't predict how magic will influence research, and the sort of ways peopel will use magic to augment existing technology.

Since weapons can be magically enhanced, why would researchers look to develop new forms of projectile weapons instead of refine ways to magically enhance them?

Well people who are not mages (the majority) may want to let things explode too. For example dragons.

[Stazro]

The magic vs. technologs thing is a plot device. You want a medieval style world? You got it. You want a steampunk world? Why not, you got it. You want a cyberpunk world? Sure, you got it. You want a mythologically intermingled history going over thousands of years over the course of which technology hasn't changed a bit? Here you go, take whatever you fancy. There isn't anything more to it.

[Revan312]

Personally I'm not concerned as I'm pretty positive that they will have armor later in the game, most likely very early on, at least something..



If not than yes, it will be the stupidest looking thing ever if Carver is killing a transformed Flemeth in farm boy garb, but I don't really see that happening.

[atheelogos]

ErichHartmann wrote...

I want the ability to form a nudist party in DAII.

As long as lady Hawke is in it then it's all good.

[Tinxa]

I like Cassandra's armour so I'd hope future warrior companions will get something similar.

I can see Aveline's and Carver's clothing as being surprised by the darkspawn and fleeing with whatever they had on... on the other hand Aveline's husband is decked in full armour but he's a templar so maybe he was already wearing it.

We don't even know if Carver and Aveline aren't only temporary starting companions so I'll wait until I see more permanent warrior companions before I start thinking all of them will be half naked:)

[Sigil_Beguiler123]

Tinxa wrote...

I like Cassandra's armour so I'd hope future warrior companions will get something similar.
I can see Aveline's and Carver's clothing as being surprised by the darkspawn and fleeing with whatever they had on... on the other hand Aveline's husband is decked in full armour but he's a templar so maybe he was already wearing it.
We don't even know if Carver and Aveline aren't only temporary starting companions so I'll wait until I see more permanent warrior companions before I start thinking all of them will be half naked:)

Hmm... I could see Aveline taking up Wesley's armour. 

[Ulicus]

AlexXIV wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Archereon wrote...
That argument is kind of flawed because not everyone can use magic.  On the other hand, almost everyone can be trained to use a gun, in a period of less than 3 weeks (remember, in those days, accuracy was so bad with firearms that it was easier to just teach them how to point and shoot, since you don't have to teach them marksmanship, its not much of a problem.)

But magic can solve all kinds of problems that technology can. Why research explosive devices when you can already create explosions? We can't predict how magic will influence research, and the sort of ways peopel will use magic to augment existing technology.

Since weapons can be magically enhanced, why would researchers look to develop new forms of projectile weapons instead of refine ways to magically enhance them?

Well people who are not mages (the majority) may want to let things explode too. For example dragons.

Indeed. They hire mages.

[Aermas]

To the people saying they now have unique armor; Why can't they have unique ARMORED looks?

To the people arguing about magic v. technology, Mages are not trusted & no one wants to rely on those that consort with demons (whether or not this is true, most peasants think this) so they would be actively trying to free themselves from the mages' control

[Urazz]

Really, the only ones I expect to wear armor are the warriors. Rogues and mages, I can see not wearing armor. Mages because they aren't strong enough to wear full armor and rogues, because it hampers their maneuverability and speed.



I'm really hoping that Carver and Aveline will wear armor later on in the game if they are permanent party members. If they are only temporary party members, then it doesn't bother me too much if they don't have armor.

[Aermas]

The thought that armor makes you slow is like cake - it's a lie. Properly made leather or plate armor is not encumbering in the slightest.

[Lurklen]

In Exile wrote...

Archereon wrote...
That argument is kind of flawed because not everyone can use magic.  On the other hand, almost everyone can be trained to use a gun, in a period of less than 3 weeks (remember, in those days, accuracy was so bad with firearms that it was easier to just teach them how to point and shoot, since you don't have to teach them marksmanship, its not much of a problem.)

But magic can solve all kinds of problems that technology can. Why research explosive devices when you can already create explosions? We can't predict how magic will influence research, and the sort of ways peopel will use magic to augment existing technology.

Since weapons can be magically enhanced, why would researchers look to develop new forms of projectile weapons instead of refine ways to magically enhance them?

 If it wasn't for the fact that mages are almost universally reviled you'd be right. But in Thedas most people think mages are about as close to darkspawn as you can get without a blight. The religion has demonized magic to the point where it took centuries for them to be allowed to do anything more than keep the fires lit in the Chantry, after which they were allowed to learn more as long as they were cut off from society. Now whether this was warrented or not is irrelevent because it happened. So it seems unliky that the societies of Thedas would rely too heavely on mages for their technological improvment. Despite the fact that they like you have said would be able to make the average Thedosian's life much easier.

[Maria Caliban]

Aermas wrote...

Why can't they have unique ARMORED looks?

They can.

Has anyone actually said that BioWare *couldn't* give them a unique look that is all heavy plate?

[Harid]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Why can't they have unique ARMORED looks?

They can.

Has anyone actually said that BioWare *couldn't* give them a unique look that is all heavy plate?

I think most people don't want to pay for dlc armor packs like they opted not to (or to) in Mass Effect 2, and this is looking like a possiblility.

[Chuvvy]

inb4 stiletto heels and thigh highs.